2nd key woes

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NikTheGeek

NikTheGeek

New Member
Posts
626
Location
Wigan
It's a good forum this one, much better than that other one linked to the mag - it's dead quiet on there! Anyway... my 2nd key doesn't work. It unlocks the vehicle if you put it in and turn it and will start the car, but it won't unlock it via remote. Furthermore, because the alarm is on, even though the correct key is used to unlock the car manually, the alarm still goes off - but even though it goes off, the key will still start the car!

The led lights up strongly - and indeed, I've swapped batteries from the other one.

I've tried to re-sync. Pressing buttons whilst turning the key, leaving it in the ignition etc etc.

The sticker on the back says "Key 2" so I'm guessing it is the real one and not a cheap ebay one.

Any ideas? Just sounds like the RF transmitter is duff or something - or it is out of sync and won't re-sync.

tnx

Nik
 
The reason the alarm goes off and the reason it won't sync is because the BeCM is alarmd....

The alarm goes off because with the P38 if you superlock on the button, you have to unlock on the button or else the alrm will go off when you use the key in the door...
 
Saint.V8 said:
The reason the alarm goes off and the reason it won't sync is because the BeCM is alarmd....

The alarm goes off because with the P38 if you superlock on the button, you have to unlock on the button or else the alrm will go off when you use the key in the door...
Click to expand...

But if all works normally with Key #1 then the fault must either be the FOB or FOB sync. Key#1 working rules out the RF receiver and most other things.
If the car was locked on the FOB and you unlock with the key, I'm sure you have to enter the EKA code but why the engine will start without it I'm not quite sure.
 
If fob1 works ok,then unlock with fob1.With it unlocked try to sync fob2 when is not alarmed.If I understand correctly if the RR is locked with fob1 and then you unlock with the mechanical key(should not matter if it is key 1or 2) the alarm goes off and if you then put fob2 mkey in ignition ,it starts but the alarm still sounds.

I suggest you lock(press lock button once only) with Fob1.Then unlock with fob1 mech/ key and try and start.
Let us know what happens then.You should have to enter the eka code before it will start.:confused:
 
Last edited:
I'll clarify slightly :)

The alarm goes off if I unlock the door with key 2. And if I try and start the car whilst the alarm is going off, it won't. However, if I sit there in the drivers seat until the alarm goes silent (about 2 mins), then key 2 starts the car fine.

I wondered anyway what the point of an alarm was if it goes silent after 2 mins. Not a very good deterrent.

Possibly connected: the dash says "Alarm Fault" everytime I start the car (with either key) AND I get the whole "Window Front Left" and "Sunroof" out of sync or whatever the message is.

All that stems from being locked out of the car the day I got it and needing to enter the EKA code to get in. In the end, it all fixed itself apart from key 2. I don't know if key 2 ever worked, but I *think* I would have noticed on the day I got it if it didn't...

Nik
 
You wonder why the alarm does not work properly,yet the message "alarm fault" may be just the clue.It has a fault!. You need to find what is causing the alarm fault first and fix it.

Then look into sync the fob2.Also try resetting your windows,sunroof etc as the messages you are getting is that they are NOT set.:D
 
JohnP38 said:
You wonder why the alarm does not work properly,yet the message "alarm fault" may be just the clue.It has a fault!. You need to find what is causing the alarm fault first and fix it.
Click to expand...

I just thought it may be saying that because the alarm has gone off. I'll google the error....

tnx

Nik
 
Saint.V8 said:
If the alarm was triggered - the message display would say why i.e. if it was a door it would say which one etc...
Click to expand...

Yes. Living in crime-ridden Lahndan, I get a message about once a month. Forget the exact words but the gist is "Someone tried fooking with your car since you last locked up toots".

G~
 
Datatek said:
Needs diagnostics to confirm, but alarm fault is usually the volumetric sensor according to other threads.
Click to expand...

Yep, seen those, but that's mainly on pre-1998 vehicles. However, it's easy to test for: person superlocked in car moving about! :) Might also be a loose connection. It'll give me something to do.

So far, any P38 problems I've had are security related and touch wood that's it! :) I didn't have any problems nor the "Alarm Fault" message until I disconnected the battery whilst the vehicle was alarmed. So I'm sure it's something I've done rather than a physical fault...

Nik
 
I would say this sounds like a fob code error. in the Becm there are three fob codes stored, key 1. 2. and 3, if as you say you took the battery off then had this fault then that's enough reason for the Becm to throw its bits out the Becm, So if your fob codes should read 122 168 202 and then once the battery has been disconnected this dose more often than not change some all or just one setting in the Cpu on the logic board. So now your fob codes will now show 122 206 202 so the key 2 will no longer be read by pressing the fob buttons.

If you contact your local Land Rover dealer and ask for your 14 digit bar code then send this to me i can then give you the correct fob codes, these can only be entered into a "unlocked" Becm. because if you try through the OBD2 port you will just get empty boxes where the fob codes should be.

Datatec... dose the new box of tricks from blackbox solutions allow the viewing and altering of the fob codes on a locked Becm? :)
 
dougdotcom said:
If you contact your local Land Rover dealer and ask for your 14 digit bar code then send this to me i can then give you the correct fob codes, these can only be entered into a "unlocked" Becm. because if you try through the OBD2 port you will just get empty boxes where the fob codes should be.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by an "unlocked" BECM ? Anyway, without any diagnostics kit (other than a laptop and cheap OBDII lead) I wouldn't be able to do anything with the codes you supplied me with would I? So I'd have to take it to someone with a T4 I guess? But anyway, what is "unlocked" vs "locked". Just out of interest! :)

I've emailed my new best friend at Landrover in Liverpool and asked her for the 14 digit code.

Nik
 
dougdotcom said:
I would say this sounds like a fob code error. in the Becm there are three fob codes stored, key 1. 2. and 3, if as you say you took the battery off then had this fault then that's enough reason for the Becm to throw its bits out the Becm, So if your fob codes should read 122 168 202 and then once the battery has been disconnected this dose more often than not change some all or just one setting in the Cpu on the logic board. So now your fob codes will now show 122 206 202 so the key 2 will no longer be read by pressing the fob buttons.

If you contact your local Land Rover dealer and ask for your 14 digit bar code then send this to me i can then give you the correct fob codes, these can only be entered into a "unlocked" Becm. because if you try through the OBD2 port you will just get empty boxes where the fob codes should be.

Datatec... dose the new box of tricks from blackbox solutions allow the viewing and altering of the fob codes on a locked Becm? :)
Click to expand...

Ok this a new one.since when do the three sets of numbers in the BECM correspond to Fobs 1,2,3.You can have Fobs 1 to 4 all synced and operating at the same time.So where is the code for Fob 4 stored then?.
If any of those numbers are incorrect then none of the fobs will work.;)
 
dougdotcom said:
I would say this sounds like a fob code error. in the Becm there are three fob codes stored, key 1. 2. and 3, if as you say you took the battery off then had this fault then that's enough reason for the Becm to throw its bits out the Becm, So if your fob codes should read 122 168 202 and then once the battery has been disconnected this dose more often than not change some all or just one setting in the Cpu on the logic board. So now your fob codes will now show 122 206 202 so the key 2 will no longer be read by pressing the fob buttons.

If you contact your local Land Rover dealer and ask for your 14 digit bar code then send this to me i can then give you the correct fob codes, these can only be entered into a "unlocked" Becm. because if you try through the OBD2 port you will just get empty boxes where the fob codes should be.

Datatec... dose the new box of tricks from blackbox solutions allow the viewing and altering of the fob codes on a locked Becm? :)
Click to expand...

The FOB's use a rolling code as well as an ID code, this can get scrambled and there are instructions in the owners manual to re-set.

New box of tricks? Do you mean Nanocom? The only device that will unlock a locked BECM as far as I am aware is Faultmate with the 035 module. Even T4 will not do it as direct access to the BECM is required which involves soldering wires on to the CPU. Nanocom certainly will not.
 
ok i went to a job where the guy had one key working and one not, after reading the fob codes and checking them against the correct codes the second set of codes were wrong, after entering the correct second set both keys worked and are still working to this day (to lock and unlock by the remote). Regarding key 4 i thought this was a key only not a fob how long has key 4 been a fob key? If i alter the 1st code then my key one dose not work to open the doors remotely, just like if i alter the second code then key 2 wont work as a remote fob

"New box of tricks? Do you mean Nanocom?" Calm down why are folk so stressed. you know what i meant so both descriptions are ok to you. i use a fault mate with smo35 and was asking you if the Nanocom ( i had forgotten the name) read a unlocked becm that's all.

A locked Becm is the normal state of a Becm when it leaves the factory it is locked the the vin, if you have an unlocked Becm then you can alter a lot of settings to do what you wish with the becm. This is a part of what i do most days of the week as a job.

If the work i do sorts 99% of the Becm i do then that's a job well done. I go back for free in any problems come back even if its 100 miles plus away from Nottingham.

This is based on what i have done many times over and not something i have read somewhere. I hope you sort your problems out Nik. you may do well giving rick the pick a call he's another guy who repairs Becm’s all day too :)

I think "new box of tricks" is an English term, not a French one Sorry.
 
dougdotcom said:
ok i went to a job where the guy had one key working and one not, after reading the fob codes and checking them against the correct codes the second set of codes were wrong, after entering the correct second set both keys worked and are still working to this day (to lock and unlock by the remote). Regarding key 4 i thought this was a key only not a fob how long has key 4 been a fob key? If i alter the 1st code then my key one dose not work to open the doors remotely, just like if i alter the second code then key 2 wont work as a remote fob

"New box of tricks? Do you mean Nanocom?" Calm down why are folk so stressed. you know what i meant so both descriptions are ok to you. i use a fault mate with smo35 and was asking you if the Nanocom ( i had forgotten the name) read a unlocked becm that's all.

A locked Becm is the normal state of a Becm when it leaves the factory it is locked the the vin, if you have an unlocked Becm then you can alter a lot of settings to do what you wish with the becm. This is a part of what i do most days of the week as a job.

If the work i do sorts 99% of the Becm i do then that's a job well done. I go back for free in any problems come back even if its 100 miles plus away from Nottingham.

This is based on what i have done many times over and not something i have read somewhere. I hope you sort your problems out Nik. you may do well giving rick the pick a call he's another guy who repairs Becm’s all day too :)

I think "new box of tricks" is an English term, not a French one Sorry.
Click to expand...


It is interesting to hear you say about the fob code groups refering to individual fobs.I have always understood the fob code groups identify a family of fobs consisting of Fob 1 to Fob4. As far as I know FOB 4 has always been a remote transmitter.I personally have not seen a FOB4.If anyone has a Fob4 please confirm if it is a standard remote fob.
I too use SM035 and the BBS description of the becm Fob code groups tends to support what I have said.
When the opportunity presents it self I will try changing one of the first two fob code groups in my unlocked BECM and see if MY FOB1 or FOB2 stop working.
It would also prehaps make it possible to program a FOB from another vehicle to work with a original vehicle fob by changing one of those BECM code groups to the new fobs code. ?

Nanocom (which I have as well) cannot unlock a BECM,but can read an unlocked one.
 
JohnP38 said:
It is interesting to hear you say about the fob code groups refering to individual fobs.I have always understood the fob code groups identify a family of fobs consisting of Fob 1 to Fob4. As far as I know FOB 4 has always been a remote transmitter.I personally have not seen a FOB4.If anyone has a Fob4 please confirm if it is a standard remote fob.
I too use SM035 and the BBS description of the becm Fob code groups tends to support what I have said.
When the opportunity presents it self I will try changing one of the first two fob code groups in my unlocked BECM and see if MY FOB1 or FOB2 stop working.
It would also prehaps make it possible to program a FOB from another vehicle to work with a original vehicle fob by changing one of those BECM code groups to the new fobs code. ?

Nanocom (which I have as well) cannot unlock a BECM,but can read an unlocked one.
Click to expand...

Ah, that explains a few things. I saw the option in the Nanocom to unlock the BECM but never tried it. Said it could read the fob codes if it was unlocked but IIRC it said unlocking it could mess up communication with other systems, such as the HEVAC. Seems it can probably lock but not unlock.

J
 
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