205 R16s vs 205 80 R16s...What?

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dodgyrob said:
I was under the impression that you could get away with having a spare tyre that was under the minimum amount of legal tread for M.O.T and it does state on the DirectGov website that the spare tyre is not checked during an M.O.T.

However I was also under the impression that if the police stop you they have the power to issue a FPN for carrying an illegal spare tyre as the chances are if you get a puncture you would fit the spare and then be breaking the law.

But then you could argue you were not going to fit the spare tyre and the police would then have to prove to a court you had the intention of fitting the illegal spare at some point and trying to prove intent on an issue like that wouldn't be easy.

Why are tyres so bloody complicated:confused:
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So if you had a legal spare, got a cut in the tread changed it to make your vehicle safe to drive you could be done still cos the tyre that was on the car is now the spare and illegal! Thats ridiculous!
 
Shifty1962 said:
Not true!!! If its on or in the car it has to be legal. Plod can give you three points for a bald spare and you will fail an MOT if the examiner checks it. If its no good then leave it at home for the MOT. There is no legal requirement to carry a spare.
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I never mentioned the law I mentioned the MOT. and a spare is not testable for the MOT. I have been stopped a fair few times and plod has never checked spare. In facyt it was plod that told me spares weren't testable or illegal if bald.

I'm afraid shifty that in this you are wrong because if not then you could stop to assist a stranded motorist. But in doing so, you would be aiding and abetting him/her to break the law as his spare would be damaged and therefore illegal.

From AA website Law about car tyres | AA
Spare tyre

You don't have to carry a spare and it does not have to comply with the legal requirements while it is stowed away. However, when fitted to the vehicle (for example, following a puncture) it must then comply with the law. The spare is not tested in the MOT but the examiner may draw your attention to an unserviceable item as a matter of courtesy.


 
Thor1950 said:
Then why carry a useless piece of ****e, if you don't intend to use it. Alot of weight to carry if not needed
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So if ya buy a set of alloys off Ebay tyre are bald but that's ok cos ya gonna fit noo BFG's when ya get some spare dosh. would you be ok about getting pulled by plod and getting done for having 4 bald tyres in ya motor?? 3points for each tyre =12points on ya licence.

This isn't about weight or carrying ****e in ya car. it's about what is or isn't illegal. and carrying a bald tyre in/on the car is not illegal. as long as it's not one of the tyres been used to propel the vehicle.

Now **** orf YA Trolling sack of dog ****e..
 
Shifty1962 said:
So 24 years 12 of them as a traffic cop were a waste of time then? I've given FPNs for bald spares and even been to court when peeps wanted to argue the toss. Guess what? All of them lost. The only way you can get away with carrying a bald or illegal spare is to make sure it is not capable of being used by cutting off the valve for instance.

My MOT examiner confirms that any wheel and tyre capable of being fitted to the vehicle must be legal if it is in or on the vehicle at the time of the MOT. That includes the boot, the back seat, or the roof rack!
Any MOT examiner not checking the spare risks losing his ticket.
Its why some MOT stations wont MOT with a boot full of ****e or kids toys as they are not allowed to empty the contents and they can not get to the spare wheel.
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24 years on the force, 12 as a traffic cop and you still don't know the law. Shouldn't be surprised really.
 
Well this thread's thrown up an interesting debate!

And to think I was a little afraid to ask as I thought it was a stupid question asking about spare relevance at mot!!
 
Jongould said:
You are 100% incorrect on this and are showing one of the many faults of traffic cops, I have had many traffics tell me stuff that isn't legal, the carrying of an illegal spare is not an offence and you were clearly not doing your job right. As had been said the law applies to the vehicle and not it's contents, you can not brake a law that does not exist.
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So answer this simple question. How come not one of the people that contested the FPNs, including large companies with fleet drivers and professional drivers, ever got them cancelled? In many cases the financial penalty was increased for wasting court time. My crew mate got stuck on for a bald spare - while driving a lease car on police business. I guess the magistrates, the CPS, and the various lawyers were also all wrong? You obviously know better than all of them so carry on as you are. I'm a retired cop so dont really give a hoot what you do. If people wont listen to sound advice then thats their choice. However ignorance of the law is no defence as you will discover if you get stopped.

The reason you will get an FPN, or a court summons if you argue the toss, is because if you are stuck at the side of the road with a flat you will be tempted to fit a useable bald spare rather than wait 3 or 4 hours for a recovery truck and pay the bill for an avoidable recovery. Its why I said if the spare has been made incapable of use by cutting off the valve you would be on your way no problem as the spare would be incapable of being used.
 
It has been my understanding that whilst the spare isn't an MOT'able item they can only advise on it, if it is carried (not a legal requirement) it must be road legal, simple as.

Because you don't have to carry a spare, I guess you could argue that a non-legal tyre, elsewhere than the road wheels, might not actually be a spare, but be being carried simply to take it to the tip (wherever) .. Carrying it in a spare wheel carrier might not be a good thing in this case .. ;)
 
Paul D said:
It has been my understanding that whilst the spare isn't an MOT'able item they can only advise on it, if it is carried (not a legal requirement) it must be road legal, simple as.

Because you don't have to carry a spare, I guess you could argue that a non-legal tyre, elsewhere than the road wheels, might not actually be a spare, but be being carried simply to take it to the tip (wherever) .. Carrying it in a spare wheel carrier might not be a good thing in this case .. ;)
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I stand corrected on the MOT issue regarding spare wheels. Cops dont do MOTs :eek:

If its going to the tip and its on a wheel that could be fitted to your car then simply put a hole in the tyre wall or cut the valve off. No cop is going to argue with that. Even one that apparently does not know what he's doing ;)

If its just the tyre then no problem as not many people can change a tyre at the side of the road :D
 
waldershelf said:
24 years on the force, 12 as a traffic cop and you still don't know the law. Shouldn't be surprised really.
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Isn't it funny how as soon as you mention cops people get all personal and uptight. I'd guess that not one of the various contributors to this interesting and lively thread as ever been stuck on or contested a bald spare in court otherwise they would not be so sure in their knowledge.

I wonder who you would call if your Landy got knicked. Would the cops that turned up know their job? Lets hope so otherwise you wont get a claims reference for the insurance company.

Do you really think that any cop, no matter what their job, would get away with not knowing the law for very long? With all the various bodies that monitor and regulate the police, the CPS along with senior management looking to find scape goats to sack and save the tax payer money, its not possible to hide for that long.
 
Shifty1962 said:
So answer this simple question. How come not one of the people that contested the FPNs, including large companies with fleet drivers and professional drivers, ever got them cancelled? In many cases the financial penalty was increased for wasting court time. My crew mate got stuck on for a bald spare - while driving a lease car on police business. I guess the magistrates, the CPS, and the various lawyers were also all wrong? You obviously know better than all of them so carry on as you are. I'm a retired cop so dont really give a hoot what you do. If people wont listen to sound advice then thats their choice. However ignorance of the law is no defence as you will discover if you get stopped.

The reason you will get an FPN, or a court summons if you argue the toss, is because if you are stuck at the side of the road with a flat you will be tempted to fit a useable bald spare rather than wait 3 or 4 hours for a recovery truck and pay the bill for an avoidable recovery. Its why I said if the spare has been made incapable of use by cutting off the valve you would be on your way no problem as the spare would be incapable of being used.
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Ok, so I have got a project car which is off road, I have sold the wheels and am using a set of old wheels and tyres that aren't road legal, I throw them in my van to take them to my lockup, what happens there??

I know of someone who had this and argue'd it and won, I don't doubt you have seen many that have lost, potential to commit a crime however is not a crime. This country doesn't seem to have a defined legal system, it seems to be dependant on how the magistrate feels that day.

What your saying is you have the potential to use the tyre? You have decided for me what my own free choice would be, its my decision as to wether I would use it or not. I have the potential to grab the axe out the back of my truck and go out on a mass murdering spree if I decided too, does that mean I should be prosecuted for it?
 
Shifty1962 said:
I stand corrected on the MOT issue regarding spare wheels. Cops dont do MOTs :eek:

If its going to the tip and its on a wheel that could be fitted to your car then simply put a hole in the tyre wall or cut the valve off. No cop is going to argue with that. Even one that apparently does not know what he's doing ;)

If its just the tyre then no problem as not many people can change a tyre at the side of the road :D
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Heheh, yeah, if it's not in dispute that the tyre couldn't be fitted usefully then it's unlikely to be made subject of an offence!
 
Just to add a few extra bits of info, this is of the AA site, yes I know its not the law but they are a massive company and would only offer correct information

Spare tyre

You don't have to carry a spare and it does not have to comply with the legal requirements while it is stowed away. However, when fitted to the vehicle (for example, following a puncture) it must then comply with the law. The spare is not tested in the MOT but the examiner may draw your attention to an unserviceable item as a matter of courtesy.
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Law about car tyres | AA

As said I know they do not make the laws but they are the most respected organisation going. Also if you do a google search and read through the various amounts of information you will see this is a very hotly debated subject and the conclusion to many of these discussions (including many post from other traffic officers) is its not an offence to have an illegal tyre until it is used on the vehicle.

Like I say I have had a friend who got caught on this matter and he contested and won, this is why I am so certain over this. It comes down to the fact you can not be prosercuted for a crime you have yet to commit unless intent has been shown. Im sure if you caught someone about to put it on then yeah, that would have to stand I suppose but unless you can prove the intent to brake the law then there is no law that has been broken!
 
Jongould said:
Ok, so I have got a project car which is off road, I have sold the wheels and am using a set of old wheels and tyres that aren't road legal, I throw them in my van to take them to my lockup, what happens there??
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A set of car wheels and tyres are quite obviously not the same as your van wheels and tyres so your explanation will probably satisfy any cop if asked. You may have to explain the unsecure load though especially as you threw them in the van ;)

You can come up with a million "what ifs" (including my van is the same make as my project car and uses the same wheels etc :doh:) as can the cops so in the interests of sanity and the fact that my fingers hurt I'll agree to differ with you on this issue and wish you all the best in your future motoring.
 
Shifty1962 said:
A set of car wheels and tyres are quite obviously not the same as your van wheels and tyres so your explanation will probably satisfy any cop if asked. You may have to explain the unsecure load though especially as you threw them in the van ;)

You can come up with a million "what ifs" (including my van is the same make as my project car and uses the same wheels etc :doh:) as can the cops so in the interests of sanity and the fact that my fingers hurt I'll agree to differ with you on this issue and wish you all the best in your future motoring.
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These Plod?? seem to disagree with you
Powers to check the road worthiness of a vehicle, and spare tyre. - Law: England & Wales - PoliceSpecials.com Forum
 
Everything I have at my disposal says its not illegal, the MOT regulations don't support it, the AA clearly state that its not illegal and multiple threads on various forums all seem to come to the same conclusion. Maybe the advice given to the police officers is different to whats in the public domain, another one of the many 'grey areas' the UK legal system seems to have.

I'm not suggesting what we read online is definitive, we know full well its not but all the evidence suggests that the condition of the spare is not a legal matter. I would definitely take it to court and I bet many lawyers would be happy to take the case on
 
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