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2011 90 XS 2.4 Puma engine replacement

Discussion in 'General Land Rover Forum' started by Keithw, Aug 4, 2016.

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  1. Keithw

    Keithw New Member

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    It's not a good day.
    Looks like an oil pump failure has led to a bottom end knock.
    2 independants and LR have told me the only solution is a new engine.
    I think my options are:
    1. Buy original LR and have LR fit
    2. Buy original LR and have an independant fit
    3. Buy a recon and have an independant fit.
    4. Sell as is

    I want to protect resale value (I was planning to sell it soon) but don't want to overspend unnecessarily.
    any advice? (PLEASE HELP)
     
  2. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    Why not look at getting a used engine or rebuilding the one you have? I'm sure there are plenty of places willing and able to do so. It's not really rocket science after all.

    And to be brutally honest, I would not be picking a LR dealership to do any kind of work on the vehicle unless I had more money than sense.
     
  3. Keithw

    Keithw New Member

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    Thanks 300bhp/ton. Many sources have told me rebuilding these engines is a very bad idea. It's either new or recon. I'm using the LR dealership as a ceiling to know how "good" a deal I'm getting from the independants :)
     
  4. Kwakerman

    Kwakerman Well-Known Member

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    That's a bit of a contradictory statement as by definition a recon has been rebuilt. If it were me I'd whip the engine out and strip it to have a look (it has to come out anyway). No real reason why it can't be rebuilt but if it really is scrap then get a 2nd hand one and drop it in.
     
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  5. Keithw

    Keithw New Member

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    Thanks Kwakerman.
    I heard a 2nd hand engine will affect resale value.
     
  6. Foxyred

    Foxyred Well-Known Member

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    Pm me with what price you are looking at for the car.
     
  7. raywin

    raywin Well-Known Member

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    That makes sense, at least you will know for sure what you are up against, and can make your decision based on facts. Damage will depend on how much it was run after the oil pump gave in,
    Never had one but I understand the oil pump is a known problem with a high mileage Puma engine, might be worth writing to Land Rover and complain, they can only say no.
     
  8. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    Does it really matter? It'll be worth far less with a broken engine than a replacement one. And it's not as if engine swaps are rare in the Land Rover world.

    And the cost of a new engine from LR + fitting will likely be 10x more than value difference of the vehicle with a used engine anyway.
     
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  9. Keithw

    Keithw New Member

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    Yep, waiting to hear back from LR. They covered 100% of the cost of gearbox failure a few years ago on my wife's Freelander 2 months out of warranty. So worth a shot as you say, considering the oil pump is a known issue and was a Service Action ("recall") on the 2.2.
     
  10. MJI

    MJI Well-Known Member

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    Would a previous engine fit eg 300TDI?
     
  11. Rattlegun

    Rattlegun Well-Known Member

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    Transit equivalent short or full motor?
     
  12. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    Major work and a backwards step.
     
  13. MJI

    MJI Well-Known Member

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    Backwards? Have you driven a Puma?

    Anything but.
     
  14. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    Yes I have. And I own multiple Tdi's. They are nice old lumps. But that's it, they are old. Largely inefficient, very noisy, unrefined, fairly low power output.
     
  15. Jonnyb1990

    Jonnyb1990 Well-Known Member

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    PM me the VIN, there has been a recall over the last year with the oil pump
     
  16. freelance

    freelance Well-Known Member

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    Yeah fords are busy changing oil pumps and making good on those that fail in the transit
     
  17. MJI

    MJI Well-Known Member

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    So perhaps the best replacement is the best Land Rover designed Diesel lump.

    The TD5

    When I last drove a Puma I immediately afterwards drove a TD5.

    TD5 FTW
     
  18. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    Is there something you don't like about the Puma engine specifically? I admit they might not have the same character as a Td5 or sound track. But they are perfectly good motors. They also produce a sh*t load of torque in standard trim and will outperform a modded Tdi.

    The anti stall and TCS is also very good on them.

    While it would be possible to fit an older engine. It really would be a huge amount of work. None of the plumbing or electrics will be correct and you have the wrong gearbox.

    And it's not as if you'd be doubling the power output or anything else. A Td5 is marginally similar in abilities to the Puma engine. So you are talking £000's plus lots of time to end up with something that would only be different rather than better.


    If it was a 2.5p, 2.5TD or maybe even a Tdi, then yes, a Td5 or even Puma conversion would probably be worth considering. It would still cost, but it would be an easier swap and you would be improving the vehicle in terms of power and ability.
     
  19. MJI

    MJI Well-Known Member

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    I just found it a horrible engine, rough, did not sound nice, not that powerful, just not a patch on the previous engine choice. Agricultural and not in a good way.

    The 300TDI is not that powerful but is extremely reliable, yes it is also agricultural, but it does it the right way, the TD5 is a great engine, grunty, good sound, plenty of power, smooth. Only real issues are injector seals.

    My TD5 sits in a late Discovery so runs the late Discovery map which is I think around 145bhp.

    Oh and I do like the old series petrols
     
  20. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton Well-Known Member

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    As far as I know all the D2 Td5's make about the same power, circa 134bhp. I admit the map might have changed over the production run, but I don't recall a published power difference.

    That said, Td5's in a Defender run a different map and are only 122hp. The same as the map on the 2.2 and 2.4 Puma's, although with less torque than the Puma's. Both can be remapped to similar levels.

    Can't say I've found them rough or agricultural. And most certainly not when compared to a Tdi. Lets remember the Puma engine was also used in Mondeos, Jaguars, some Citroens and even a Fiat. The extended range of Puma engines are also used in Volvo's and Mazda's.

    All the Puma Defender's I've been in have gone very well. And will happily sit at motorway speed most comfortably.
     
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