200tdi issues - the bad luck has to end soon right?

SpenB said:

As already said - the lift pump is a mechanical pump (as opposed to later models electric pumps).
i believe it works off a cam in the engine, (as AL203 said), as the engine is running, the cam is rotating and turning the pump.
I changed mine while the engine was out as it was said on here ages ago that (as Rougharse said) a knackered or worn pump can lead to a loss of performance and my defender was struggling at 50mph.
Obviousley its not out the garage yet so cant compare - but then the Alisport full intercooler and new radiator, new parts, tweeked as per Alisports instructions and soon to be rebuilt injectors - i might actually not know if the new lift pump is any better LOL

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Thats a slutty engine, I approve!

You can blank the old lift plump off & get a diesel facet pump. Makes easy bleeding.

SpenB said:

As already said - the lift pump is a mechanical pump (as opposed to later models electric pumps).
i believe it works off a cam in the engine, (as AL203 said), as the engine is running, the cam is rotating and turning the pump.
I changed mine while the engine was out as it was said on here ages ago that (as Rougharse said) a knackered or worn pump can lead to a loss of performance and my defender was struggling at 50mph.
Obviousley its not out the garage yet so cant compare - but then the Alisport full intercooler and new radiator, new parts, tweeked as per Alisports instructions and soon to be rebuilt injectors - i might actually not know if the new lift pump is any better LOL

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That engine looks the part

So I haven’t touched the landy since Thursday night, went out today and it started immediately after not firing on Friday morning. So can’t really do any diagnosing whilst it works fine.

I can’t understand why the filter would essentially empty itself, surely with the motor running its full, if it’s not it won’t run? So then once turned off then no fuel can leave the filter? The in and out is on the top so how can it drain?

Apologies for all the questions

Ash2304 said:

So I haven’t touched the landy since Thursday night, went out today and it started immediately after not firing on Friday morning. So can’t really do any diagnosing whilst it works fine.

I can’t understand why the filter would essentially empty itself, surely with the motor running its full, if it’s not it won’t run? So then once turned off then no fuel can leave the filter? The in and out is on the top so how can it drain?

Apologies for all the questions

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Slight air leak somewhere that lets it drain back somehow?

flat said:

Slight air leak somewhere that lets it drain back somehow?

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It’s been mentioned. But that still doesn’t explain it? Essentially if the filters full (surely it’s full when the engine runs), when the engines turned off, it stays full, surely half of the fuel in the filter can’t flow upwards into the housing and back down the pipes, it’s physically impossible? Just trying to get my head round how it actually works.

I need to get it to work so I can actually inspect things with a full toolbox and appropriate work space.

Also, if say a non return valve in the lift pump was knackered (presuming it has one) if the pump ‘ended’ on cam or whatever (if you will) with it in a position where it could leak back, would that cause none starting? If so that could explain the intermittent side of things. Sometime the pump finishes in place where fuel can’t leak back and sometimes it can.

Siphon action maybe? I don’t know tbh

A slight air leak will let the fuel seep back through the system to the tank - but may not let fuel leak out. As suggested there can easily be enough of a siphon to shift 1/2 litre of fuel. A common place for this to happen is at the fuel return lines - where the banjos on top of the injectors are. However it can happen almost anywhere in the low pressure side of the fuel system.

I had a similar issue with my 200tdi. It was running fine one day, then took longer to start. Found several “causes” online, started with the easy stuff and worked up from there.

Replace the fuel filter now if you haven’t already done so.

Buy some 5/16 (8mm) rubber fuel hose first of all, and a clear fuel filter like a grass cutter uses. Cut the feed line (right hand side) of the lift pump connections and insert the fuel filter and a length of the rubber hose. This will tell you if you have an air leak from the tank pick up to the lift pump, I did! I replaced the tank to lift pump fuel line at this point.

I then removed the lift pump outlet from the fuel filter housing, and placed it in a bucket. Lean in through the drivers window and start or try to start the engine. See what comes out of the lift pump. Mine was a dribble at best, so I replaced it. I noticed while searching for solutions that Glencoyne engineering (no affiliation) have made a 5mm stainless spacer for the 200-300tdi lift pumps, so I sanded the 10mm spacer down to 5mm that came with the new pump. Replaced and started fine, no problems! Happy days! Then the snow came. The randomly died on the way to work, 15mile trip. I couldn’t believe it!

No air before the lift pump, in the fuel filter, so I put a clear piece in the line from the lift pump to the fuel filter, air again! I thought this lift pump was leaking in air, so I bought another one. This time it came with new connectors for the fuel lines, the other one didn’t. So I just replaced the connectors on the current one, no more air leaks.

Don’t let a half full fuel filter con you into thinking the lift pump is dead, as mine wouldn’t fill with a good lift pump and an air leak!

If you haven’t any, get some cheap ****e 8mm ID clear PVC pipe, it’s only used as a faultfinding measure so don’t worry about it’s diesel resistance!

Is it possible that you have disturbed a fuel pipe when you changed the clutch?
As others have said, a slight leak may allow diesel to siphon back into the tank.

I thought I’d been back to update this thread.

The problem is my stop start solenoid (not sure if I’ve mentioned it)

Has anyone had any experience with these?

I’ve now tried 2 replacements and it doesn’t start, never mind intermittently. It refuses to start with my old one in also. The only way it will start and run with all of the solenoids is if I remove the little plunger, I then have to stall it to stop it.

All wiring is fine, I’ve checked all of the switches work on the ignition before I fit them. I’ve checked that there is signal on the wire every time the ignition is turned on. Everything works as it should, apart from when it’s in, it doesn’t start it whilst the plunger is there.

Thanks Ash

The engine might not be earthed properly, affecting the working of the solenoid

Have you tried a power straight from the battery ??????

Magicgrotto said:

Have you tried a power straight from the battery ??????

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Another straight from the battery vote and if it works then leave it with a switch in, good security device

Magicgrotto said:

Have you tried a power straight from the battery ??????

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I actually thought of this after I’d removed the plunger and refit the solenoid last night. I shall swap it again and try that. I was sulking at the fact it wasn’t working and wanted to go home I think, so didn’t bother taking it out again.

Fingers crossed!

Thanks Ash

Ash2304 said:

I actually thought of this after I’d removed the plunger and refit the solenoid last night. I shall swap it again and try that. I was sulking at the fact it wasn’t working and wanted to go home I think, so didn’t bother taking it out again.

Fingers crossed!

Thanks Ash

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If you "hot wire" the stop solenoid valve, run a wire directly from battery positive to the connector on the solenoid, as you touch the wire onto the connector you should hear a distinct "click" as the valve opens against the spring, this will at least give an indication if there is an electrical problem in the wiring or in the solenoid valve.
But after reading the whole thread from start I reckon you may have and have had for some time air ingress through the injection pump throttle shaft, that leak will not show as a diesel leak to the outside but will allow air back into the governor chamber on top of the pump and in turn allow a back flow of fuel from the IP body fuel gallery to the fuel tank via the return fuel line system.
You can do a fairly easy check for this by filling the fuel tank to the brim and if possible park the vehicle nose down, if you have a sloping driveway just back the vehicle up, the full tank and nose down will have the fuel tank level above the level of the injection pump and stop the fuel "siphoning" back.
The fix is simple if you are a bit handy with the spanners and involves removal of the top governor chamber cover of the IP and replacement of the throttle shaft "o" ring and the cover gasket, both cheap and readily available from a Bosch service diesel shop, the pump does not need removal from the engine to do this job.

Gazbo said:

If you "hot wire" the stop solenoid valve, run a wire directly from battery positive to the connector on the solenoid, as you touch the wire onto the connector you should hear a distinct "click" as the valve opens against the spring, this will at least give an indication if there is an electrical problem in the wiring or in the solenoid valve.
But after reading the whole thread from start I reckon you may have and have had for some time air ingress through the injection pump throttle shaft, that leak will not show as a diesel leak to the outside but will allow air back into the governor chamber on top of the pump and in turn allow a back flow of fuel from the IP body fuel gallery to the fuel tank via the return fuel line system.
You can do a fairly easy check for this by filling the fuel tank to the brim and if possible park the vehicle nose down, if you have a sloping driveway just back the vehicle up, the full tank and nose down will have the fuel tank level above the level of the injection pump and stop the fuel "siphoning" back.
The fix is simple if you are a bit handy with the spanners and involves removal of the top governor chamber cover of the IP and replacement of the throttle shaft "o" ring and the cover gasket, both cheap and readily available from a Bosch service diesel shop, the pump does not need removal from the engine to do this job.

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There’s is a click everytime it’s turned on and off.

I’ve been using it every day for around 12 weeks though without a single issue, just having to stall it to turn the engine off. Surely that rules out everything apart from fuel solenoid no? For an intermittent problem to stop completely after I’ve removed the plunger and not reoccur for 3 months, but only for the vehicle not to start again once a plunger is refit?

Ash2304 said:

There’s is a click everytime it’s turned on and off.

I’ve been using it every day for around 12 weeks though without a single issue, just having to stall it to turn the engine off. Surely that rules out everything apart from fuel solenoid no? For an intermittent problem to stop completely after I’ve removed the plunger and not reoccur for 3 months, but only for the vehicle not to start again once a plunger is refit?

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That indeed does make sense, can you get hold of another solenoid to try.

Haven't got time at the mo to read all the thread again but you need the power at the solenoid when you turn the key to 'dash lights on 'position AND WHILE ITS CRANKING.
Sounds like you may not be getting power when cranking.
Ign switch failure.

Click is not always a sign the solenoid is actually working, had a few that click but wouldnt work.
To test for power DO NOT use a multimeter use a bulb and two wires