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200tdi issues - the bad luck has to end soon right?

Discussion in 'Defender 90 / 110 / 130' started by Ash2304, Feb 6, 2018.

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  1. Ash2304

    Ash2304 Active Member

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    hi, since Sunday I’ve had a problem with the landy starting in a morning.

    I get in, turn the ignition on and off a few times in this cold weather, Then start her up. She’s been spot on until Sunday morning, turns once and fires but it just turned over without firing. So I stopped, tried again, stopped, tried again and it eventually started.

    Sunday evening nipped out, no issues

    Monday morning, turned and turned again. (12 hours without movement)

    Monday evening after work fired no issues (8 hours without movement)

    Tuesday/today wouldn’t start without issue again (12 hours without movement)

    It’s been suggested that fuel pipes may be letting in air, fuel return issues and glow plugs.

    Anyone out there have advice or suggestions?

    Thanks Ash
     
  2. zeaphod

    zeaphod Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like the classic air in the return fuel circuit - check the tightness of the little bolts on the banjos on top of the injectors. If they are good, have a close look at all your fuel connections. Even without glowplugs, a decent 200tdi will start after a couple of turns in cold weather.
     
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  3. Ash2304

    Ash2304 Active Member

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    So start at the injectors and work back?

    I can’t understand why it started perfectly after work yesterday if that’s the case?

    Cheers
     
  4. zeaphod

    zeaphod Well-Known Member

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    Intermittent faults are the hardest to find. Have a quick check that the wiring/plug on the fuel injection pump is making good contact too.
     
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  5. Interceptorxj

    Interceptorxj Active Member

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    Just sounds like it needs a new set of glow plugs to me to assist cold starting, doesn't sound like it has any air in fuel issues if it runs ok normally.
     
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  6. Interceptorxj

    Interceptorxj Active Member

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    New set of 4 glow plugs £12:45 from Beermach, no brainer.
     
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  7. Ash2304

    Ash2304 Active Member

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    Yeah I was probably going to replace them anyway, but the fact people say they hardly need them makes me think it’s another issue
     
  8. Interceptorxj

    Interceptorxj Active Member

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    I think you will be pleasantly suprised when you fit a new set, they most definitely need them on colder mornings.
     
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  9. Discokids

    Discokids Well-Known Member

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    My 200tdi starts instantly no matter what the weather, and it hasn't been on the road for nearly four years. Glow plugs haven't been connected in all that time so I'm of the opinion that they really aren't needed and there must be another issue.
     
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  10. zeaphod

    zeaphod Well-Known Member

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    At around freezing temps, my 200tdi starts immediately with 4 secs of glowplug, or after two revolutions without. I only use them for the novelty of seeing the little light.
     
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  11. Hicap phill

    Hicap phill Well-Known Member

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    Most people miss the spill/return pipes between the injectors.
    Check these.
    This time of year I use glow plugs amazing how easy it starts.
     
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  12. Marmaduke

    Marmaduke Well-Known Member

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  13. lynall

    lynall Well-Known Member

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    In the UK pretty much regardless of temperature and a good battery a 200 will easily start with no glow plugs, with a weak battery glow plugs make all the difference.

    The fact its ok one day and not the next means you can ignore the glow plugs and concentrate on the real issue which is as said above fuel related.

    Normal first start point is to remove the fuel filter if its brimming it means the suction side incl lift pump and pipework etc is good and you can concentrate on the return side of the system, new flex pipes, banjo copper washers should see you good and all cheap as well.

    Little flex pipes are 3.2mm id and NOT 4mm id
     
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  14. steveyorks

    steveyorks Well-Known Member

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    I find that if I am parking mine for any length of time it stars instantly if facing downhill but tales a few turns to start if facing uphill.
     
  15. Ash2304

    Ash2304 Active Member

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    Thanks for all the suggestions. I came to It outside of work tonight and it started perfectly. It’d been sat for over 10 hours, I think it cracked twice and fired up. I’ll see what it does tomorrow morning. I’ve parked it in a different position outside the house wondering if it’s that that’s causing it. As it’s only happens outside my front door and not outside of work. I highly doubt it but we shall see in the morning.

    I’ll start inspecting then various fuel pipes and checking bits and pieces tomorrow hopefully

    Thanks Ash
     
  16. Ash2304

    Ash2304 Active Member

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    So.... i expected it to struggle this morning, it did, but didn’t even start in the end. Had to leave it and get a lift to work. I’ll have to try and get it to start tonight when I’m home, god knows how I’ll go about that!? I’ll take it to work and swap it for my other motor.

    Ash
     
  17. Interceptorxj

    Interceptorxj Active Member

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    Another issue I had with bad starting on one of my 200tdis was a corroded fuel pick up pipe in the tank which had pinholes in it so would draw air.
     
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  18. Ttwo

    Ttwo Active Member

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    This is always my answer....lift pump lol the 2 90’s iv had started acting up while starting one day it was fine then next would turn like 5-6 time then would start later straight away and finally wouldn’t start al all......so my first 90 would die when I I give it power but start fine....my second would struggle starting but once it did it ran fine....so diesel lift pump...there cheap and will need doing at some point so try that and at least it’s done...and a good chance it will be that
     
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  19. sp00k

    sp00k Well-Known Member

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    I would suspect air in the fuel system. No matter what the weather I always start my 200 TDI without glow plugs. When it's freezing, it starts within a couple of turns. When it's normal, it starts on half a turn. If I use the glows, it starts instantly in freezing temps.

    The injection pump has a built in lift pump which will work fine for starting it. With a dodgy lift pump, you would see symptoms along the line of not enough fuel when working hard under load. A dodgy lift pump could be letting air in though without letting air out, so it's also worth eliminating but to be sever enough to prevent starting, I would expect it to be leaking diesel as well.

    Even with air in the system, I would expect it to clear enough to start within say 30 seconds.

    Something also worth checking is the stop solenoid. A dodgy connection there would stop all fuel and prevent starting.

    Also, what happens when you try to start it?

    No smoke means no fuel. Grey means some/incomplete. A short puff of black as it starts is normal.
     
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  20. Ash2304

    Ash2304 Active Member

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    Thanks for the replies. I’ll take note of the smoke colour when I start it next.

    I haven’t started diagnosing yet, however I went home on Wednesday, it was 1 degrees as opposed to minus 6 like it was in the morning, I took some tools home with me with all intentions of tinkering, I turned the ignition on, off, on, turned the key and it turned over very lazy, twice (I had all but flattened the battery in the morning though so I expected this), and then started up fine, drove as it should for the 12 miles to work.

    I will be inspecting all fuel pipes, pumps and connectors tomorrow but I’ve got a set of glow plugs aswell, no harm in changing them. I have a fuel filter to go on so I can check to see if the lift pump is working and change that at the same time.

    Surely it’s not a coincidence that when it’s below zero, that’s the only time it struggles to start? Maybe a combination of a slightly tired starter and not perfect battery means mine needs it’s glow plugs?
     
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