200TDI in a Series 2

Gpo said:

I have ordered a manual impact driver ( arrives Friday) to shift the 4 slotted screws to get the boost diagram chamber.

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Be careful , I would not expect the monkey metal to survive a damn hard wallop.
A proper sized screwdriver , maybe with a spanner on the end of leverage would be better.

Cheers

Agree Gentle tapping, it’ll be a world of pain if it snaps off in hole. I would think there must be a fault elsewhere to cause your problem rather than tinker inside ( unless it’s been tinkered with previously)

steve2286w said:

Agree Gentle tapping, it’ll be a world of pain if it snaps off in hole. I would think there must be a fault elsewhere to cause your problem rather than tinker inside ( unless it’s been tinkered with previously)

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It is not the bolt snapping off I would be worried about, it is the casting breaking.

If the governor pin is gummed up , it may not travel correctly or even at all. You can see how it moves once the "boost" pin is removed and actuate the throttle, if it is out, push it back with a screw driver lightly , it will lock back in place and then you can turn the throttle again, it should pop out again. Plus you should be able to see the travel of the governor pin on the "boost pin".
You can use a light grease on the pin to see how it travels . If you grease it up reassemble and take it for a drive.

Cheers

Gpo said:

Now... as for this engine issue.
I have ordered a manual impact driver ( arrives Friday) to shift the 4 slotted screws to get the boost diagram chamber. I can safely say the guys that refurbished the injector pump did not open it ! not sure if they would have considered part of the injector pump? or maybe they were just cutting corners... wouldn't surprise me.
There was a suggestion to look at the "waste gate" and I can confirm it is not stuck as I can move it a screwdriver... it has a pretty heavy spring force on it but it I can get it to open and close manually with the "engine off" however with the engine running and revving it does not budge (should it ?? ). remember this in on the driveway .. no load. Gave it full throttle and nothing.
I am not sure how to confirm if the pump leaver is being moved all the was when the accelerator is pushed but looks like its fine.. goes all the way to the stop on the ip.
As soon as I get to look in the Compersater chamber I will confirm what's happening there and I hope at the same time to get pressure gauge on the inlet manifold, to see if we have any boost pressure. I can confirm that the turbo did blow the inlet hose off when we first started it up and so we all assumed the turbo was fine... we had so many other things on the list we were happy to put a line through the turbo as being ok.
I really appreciate the input here we will get to the bottom of it... Air, Fuel, exhaust that all it can be... given that there is no smoke black blue or white... as Lynall suggests it does sound like it is not getting the boost of fuel as the turbo kicks in .. or doesn't kick in I'm not sure. If we had an air issue we should see smoke ...maybe..... or of course it could be an exhaust restriction? but one step at a time.
I will let you know what I find.

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Turbos can spin quite fast, yet make no/little boost pressure, hence why getting the wastegate to move with car still is almost impossible, again if the car isnt getting the fuel it needs, cannot spin the turbine hard enough to make useful boost pressure, more boost = more fuel which pushes the boost pin downwards allowing the fuel pin to move, so its a kind of chicken and egg thing!
Yes wastegate spring is quite strong

As Neilly says I would be wary of the impact driver.
Iirc there is an allen key blank bung you can remove to access the pther side of the pin that is at the bottom of the hole, but even if it moves you still wont know if the boost pin/diaphragm is in the correct orientation.

When I did mine i used the std series exhaust, in the end I made one, and it drove better but not the massive difference you might think.

If the inj pump lever is hitting the stop then thats all you can do, unless there is some weird internal fault.

I assume the stop solenoid is actually working as it should, not just clicking but actually being pulled and held in?

One other thing,
when you do open the diaphragm cover, rotate the pin until you can easily pull it out. Check the rubber diaphragm for cuts/ splits.

Cheers

neilly said:

If the governor pin is gummed up , it may not travel correctly or even at all. You can see how it moves once the "boost" pin is removed and actuate the throttle, if it is out, push it back with a screw driver lightly

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Showing my ignorance of the 200tdi , I’m more used to the Series pump which just goes,
With the governor pin gummed up would that affect non turbo 200di
Mines new in but thinking it’s a bit sluggish as with the 2286 diesel

steve2286w said:

Showing my ignorance of the 200tdi , I’m more used to the Series pump which just goes,
With the governor pin gummed up would that affect non turbo 200di
Mines new in but thinking it’s a bit sluggish as with the 2286 diesel

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TBH, I have never thought about it.
What FIP do you have on a 200Di? Is it the same Bosch VE pump , but with the turbo not connected ? is the boost pin removed?

Cheers

Cheers

Yes same pump , all I did was remove the pipe from pump to turbo , not adjusted anything on the pump yet

steve2286w said:

Yes same pump , all I did was remove the pipe from pump to turbo , not adjusted anything on the pump yet

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I reckon you could have some testing fun with that, if you look on top of the boost capsule there should be a tin blank plate (most have been removed) under there is a small screw and nut, the trick is to wind the screw in a little (this presses down on top of the diaphragm) to provide a little more pull away grunt, but I wonder if you removed the screw totally and fitted a longer one so you could get more grunt initially?
I have no idea of this would work, so dont blame me if it goes tits up!
You still have to max fuel screw which will also make a difference.

The main point is only adjust things a little at a time 1/8 to 1/4 turns, all turns clockwise for more more fuel.

Thanks
Here it is as now
Tin plate on top still there
You can see where the missing banjo was I’ve left the bolt in as it allows it to breathe?
Under that is a rubber bung sleeve thing
Under that the leak off return
And under that I assume is the main fuel screw to adjust a touch ?

starts on the button and no smoke and feels like it runs out of revs sooner than it should ie max speed in third don’t think as high as series diesel

steve2286w said:

Thanks
View attachment 207436 Here it is as now
Tin plate on top still there
You can see where the missing banjo was I’ve left the bolt in as it allows it to breathe?
Under that is a rubber bung sleeve thing
Under that the leak off return
And under that I assume is the main fuel screw to adjust a touch ?

starts on the button and no smoke and feels like it runs out of revs sooner than it should ie max speed in third don’t think as high as series diesel

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You can blank that banjo hole, as the rubber nipple thing underneath it is the breather for the boost pin/diapthragm, espcially as it will never move with no boost pressure, just stick several copper washers on to fill the gap.
You main fuel screw still has the security lock collar on it, which is good as it means it most likely has not been messed with, you need 6mm and 13mm spanners to adjust it, hold 6mm spanner on head, crack the 13mm nut, then wind the screw in with the 6mm spanner, with the collar on you should be able to easily get 1/4 possibly 1/2 turn.

You are sort of in uncharted territory with tuning a n/a tdi, is there anything on the Glencoyne site? as he had some useful info on there about series tdi conversions.

If you do some searching the VE pump, you can go mad and do all sorts, adjust governor cut off point, some people heve removed it altogether, so the sky is literally the limit, or until it throws a rod!
Some have fitted bigger pumping chambers (I think thats what they are called?) so more fuel gets delivered on each injection stroke.

See the bit circled? you can get a kit off of ebay, and it allows the engine to rev slightly higher, cant remember what its called, will search it out.

Not the cheapest on ebay, but he has the best description on how it works, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-VE...356179?hash=item2f37c89913:g:3aMAAOSwcN1ai~xF

Hi guys,
sorry for not getting those 4 screws off sooner but it was a bit of a "todo" getting the right screwdriver...
anyway I took off the top of the "boost compensator" chamber just now and had a peek below.
First ... I noticed a bit of oil on both sides of the black rubber diaphragm.
I moved the throttle open and closed but failed to see anything move down the hole.... I gingerly used a screwdriver to see if there was anything at the bottom and think it was empty and just hit bottom. no sign of a pin moving in or out.
There was a very very small mark on the boost pin where something has been rubbing but nothing moving as far as I can tell.
I put it all back to whether and what to see what you guys suggest. Please see the video I tried to make below.

If there is a pin that moves where and how do I access / see it. ? If its "Stuck" what will free it? maybe its missing ??
Not sure you can see much in the photo...

Gpo said:

Hi guys,
sorry for not getting those 4 screws off sooner but it was a bit of a "todo" getting the right screwdriver...
anyway I took off the top of the "boost compensator" chamber just now and had a peek below.
First ... I noticed a bit of oil on both sides of the black rubber diaphragm.
I moved the throttle open and closed but failed to see anything move down the hole.... I gingerly used a screwdriver to see if there was anything at the bottom and think it was empty and just hit bottom. no sign of a pin moving in or out.
There was a very very small mark on the boost pin where something has been rubbing but nothing moving as far as I can tell.
I put it all back to whether and what to see what you guys suggest. Please see the video I tried to make below.

If there is a pin that moves where and how do I access / see it. ? If its "Stuck" what will free it? maybe its missing ??
Not sure you can see much in the photo...

Click to expand...

The mark is where the pin has been rubbing, how recently is another question!

Thought right, I am going to open my spare pump to show him with pics, sadly I cannot get the diagphragm out as it was partially seized! some lube got it moving, but stilll not releasing, so gained access to the back of the pin via the allen key blank cover, the pin was seized as well! so more spray lube, kept rotating the rubber and pushing on the other end of the pin got it moving again, not enogh to remove the rubber!

In a nutshell, remove allen key cover (5mm alllen key) and psuh on the little black bit (this is a lever from governor section) and the pin should emerge in the bottom of the hole.
I cannot remember what provides the pressure on the pin, spring or fuel pressure?

Thought right, I am going to open my spare pump to show him with pics, sadly I cannot get the diagphragm out as it was partially seized! some lube got it moving, but stilll not releasing, so gained access to the back of the pin via the allen key blank cover, the pin was seized as well! so more spray lube, kept rotating the rubber and pushing on the other end of the pin got it moving again, not enogh to remove the rubber!

In a nutshell, remove allen key cover (5mm alllen key) and psuh on the little black bit (this is a lever from governor section) and the pin should emerge in the bottom of the hole.
I cannot remember what provides the pressure on the pin, spring or fuel pressure?

Pic that I could not load last night,

Hi Guys.. I really appreciate all the input.. i am making progress.
yesterday I did as Lynall instructed.. (only saw his post after unfortunately)
I remover the throttle linkage and got access to the blank cover and removed with an alan key.
When I got the the blank cover out I fond it had a thick layer of rust on the back of it. Using the Allan key I pushed through the hole. I was being very ginger as I was not sure what I was doing but after a bit and what I feel was a firm push the pin popped out .
I worked the pin and use WD and I feel it is pretty free. and using a screwdriver in the Throttle linkage pivot, the pin pops out when you rotate the throttle by hand. The pin only pops out at the last bit of the stroke... nearly at full throttle.
However, I found that when the throttle linkage was reassembled the pin did not pop out even when at full throttle? I tested this a couple of times. Looks to me that the throttle is not opening to the Max ? and so no pin pops out.
Never the less I reassembled it all and took it for a spin. Nothing has changed :-( still this huge flat spot where the engine won't pick up until the foot is to the floor and then max 50/ 55mph. The only thing now is that while the tick over is fine, when I rev the engine it will die unless I press the accelerator as the reves drop. ( could be I put the throttle linkage back one notch off? ) but tick over is ok so I am not sure if I disturbed anything.
A few questions.
1. how and why would you adjust the stops for the throttle linkage? (my adjustment screw is rusted in place.
2. How much should the throttle rotate... mine is about 30 degrees from idle to full throttle (linkage in place) but it will rotate 45 without the linkage in the way. ?
3. Would you have expected an injection pump rebuild to include the refurbishment of this "compensator " and throttle part ?

Where to next ?

Heres what I found.



After working the pin and lots of wd


but with the throttle assembly... no pin?

opps here the bit with pin moving...

I would expect a purmp refurb to include a run on a test rig.

If the max power screw is wound out to far the engine will try and stall, and it will be flat on power.