200tdi Defender 90 - Brake Bleeding Issues - NO Brakes

Hi,
Need some urgent help guys....

So 3 weeks back I parked up my Defender and went about replacing my rear stub hubs and bearings. And to do this took off the drum braking assemble in one go and hanged these up on the springs to save touching the braking lines and draining down the system, it worked a treat. Once all the works were completed and I placed everything back I found out I had no brakes, peddle went straight to the floor… but i didn't even touch the hydraulic system only slightly and slowly bent the brake lines up a little to hook them up on the springs. I have tried bleeding the system for three days and gone through apprx 1.5lt of DOT4 and tried one man and two man bleeding... even a suction system also. I came to my last straw and even installed a new master cylinder and tried bleeding the system again but with no luck. What am I missing.... please tell me I have missed something so obvious. I have check the copper lines that I slightly moved and they have no leaks are bends in them. PLEASE HELP>>>!!!!!!
P.S when bleeding the brakes I get clear fluid with no bubbles.

When you hung the back plates was it with the shoes still on ? and were they still in the closed position when you came to put them back on ? Or did you have the push the trailing shoe [one with no spring] back in ?

Hi, the shoes came off... putting back on i believe they were still closed. I do remember that to get the top spring back on I had to use pliers on the end of the spring to pull the shoe over. I just can't see what i done to have this issue... any help you can give would be much appreciated.

@AH-4x4 , okay, let's work this through together as I now have exactly the same symptoms on my recently rebuilt '87 Ninety. Background similar to yours, everything new/rebuilt [spotlessly clean], new 110 vented discs/calipers/rear drums/cylinders/shoes/brake servo/TRW master cylinder/brake lines.

Now...

1. have had years of rebuilding historic/motorsport car brakes...they always work first time and stop on a sixpence - this is the first time I've had duff brakes post rebuild
2. manually bled through - no air, just perfectly clean DOT4
3. brake drums perfectly adjusted
4. calipers pumped, no sticking pistons/pads
5. this morning took Ninety in for steering geometry and asked the guys to re-bleed system using their super-dooper machine; no air after passing through 3.5 ltrs of fluid

so drove home a little downhearted...

But, brakes are only brakes so will do the following

1. have checked for pedal vacuum pull on start up [there's no vacuum pull]
2. trow, will remove vacuum hose at servo end and measure for vacuum - if no/poor vacuum it's the brand new Bearmach pump. If full vacuum...
3. it's either the new servo or the new master cylinder

I'll report back...

It could be that while hung a piston came out far enough to let fluid escape over three weeks. Whatever it is now fluid under the bridge.
Does fluid come through with the new master on ?
Have you bled at all four wheels starting at the furthest from the master?

Have you adjusted the rear brake shoes once all back together?

Just a thought - it's worth clamping the rear flexi to see if you get a bit of pressure at the pedal, it will help locate the problem to front/rear at least.
If it makes no difference, I would remove the servo and pull the master piston to check that the seals are ok - even if it is new.

zeaphod said:

Just a thought - it's worth clamping the rear flexi to see if you get a bit of pressure at the pedal, it will help locate the problem to front/rear at least.
If it makes no difference, I would remove the servo and pull the master piston to check that the seals are ok - even if it is new.

Click to expand...

or you can lock up the rear drums using the snail cam adjuster, then test to see how the front cct operates

Hi All,
Thanks for the info... have ordered a suction vac unit to assist also. Once it here this week will have a go at your suggestions and report back.

Good luck @AH-4x4 , brake bleeds can be a little fiddly sometimes and just when you think all the air is out...more suddenly appears. So go by the brake pedal feel with engine off, then once done go round and give them another quick bleed.

Hi Guys,

So good news bad news.... thanks @zeaphod yep clamped the rear flexi hose and the brake pedal was hard... undo it and again the pedal went to the floor. So good news it the rear brakes, dam spent £50 on a new master cylinder . So I have attached a photo of the rear brake shoes... I can’t see any leaks and the cylinder were replaced about 3 years back. Could it be the spring that I got incorrectly installed? Still don't understand what it could be, if it is the spring how this is making the brake pedal fall to the floor... any thoughts?

I think it should be like the series set up, the spring goes from one shoe to a peg on the backplate, the other shoe is free to float, if you fit it as you have the slave retracts fully taking the shoes with it.

Reason pedal goes to the floor the shoes are going back too far because of the springs.
Fit the spring to the correct post then once done adjust the snails.
All will be good then

@AH-4x4 , as per @lynall and @Hicap phill

Hi,
Yep great news, moving the springs over to the storks and the peddle and hard again... brakes are back !!!! . Next issue, took it out for a drive and it brakes to the right, just hoping it needs a little more bleeding.
But thanks guys for your support and help on the matter.

AH-4x4 said:

Hi,
Yep great news, moving the springs over to the storks and the peddle and hard again... brakes are back !!!! . Next issue, took it out for a drive and it brakes to the right, just hoping it needs a little more bleeding.
But thanks guys for your support and help on the matter.

Click to expand...

Did you adjust both snails the same amount?

Well, why the rear wheels where on the stands i spin them and done up the snails until they started to grabbed than backed off just slightly. Would this be correct ?

AH-4x4 said:

Hi,
Yep great news, moving the springs over to the storks and the peddle and hard again... brakes are back !!!! . Next issue, took it out for a drive and it brakes to the right, just hoping it needs a little more bleeding.
But thanks guys for your support and help on the matter.

Click to expand...

Whichever way it is pulling, look at the opposite caliper, in your case check left front caliper.

Sound like a plan... ie see if it needs a little on the snail, poss a half a turn ??. Will have a got tomorrow, fingers crossed.