2002 td4 turns over but won't start

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mediaseller

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61
Hi.

I've seen many posts on this forum relating to this problem and forgive me if I'm adding another thread on the same subject so here I go.

I have a 2002 TD4 (BMW engine), and I took it out yesterday from my house to Leeds and stopped and started it a few times on the way without no issues however on my return home I stopped to fill up with Deisel, (it was quite low), and when I got back in the car and turned the key the starter turned the engine OK but the engine wouldn't fire up.
I called Green Flag and the guy who came did all the checks as follows:

Checked that fuel was being pumped, pumped the priming button, listened for the fuel pump working OK. All appeared to be normal then he got the Easy Start out, removed the air intake pipe and squirted ethanol in the air intake while I cranked the engine. Hey presto it fired up and I was able to get home.

He advised me before he departed that when I got home I should leave the car for 30 mins and try again. I forgot to do the check but when I tried to start the car this afternoon it wouldn't again.

Having walked 6000 steps the the nearest auto spares shop I brought home a can of Easy Start and tried the trick again. All worked well so left it running for a while then stopped the engine. Left it for 30 seconds and the car started but took about 30 seconds before it would kick in. Left it for a minute and it took 45 seconds to start. Left it for 2 minutes and it wouldn't start at all.
So in summary the longer the car is left parked up the longer it takes the car if at all.

It seems like there may be some back flow somehow perhaps an air lock though the rescue man did take a fuel line off in the engine bay and pumped fuel out OK.

Given that the car can be started after 30 seconds the pump, injectors, glow plugs must be working. The fuel filter was changed in April this year following accidentally filling with petrol.

I havn't been able to get any fault codes using my cheap eBay bluetooth diagnostic tool.

I hope someone has the answer.

Thanks in anticipation.
 
mediaseller said:
Hi.

I've seen many posts on this forum relating to this problem and forgive me if I'm adding another thread on the same subject so here I go.

I have a 2002 TD4 (BMW engine), and I took it out yesterday from my house to Leeds and stopped and started it a few times on the way without no issues however on my return home I stopped to fill up with Deisel, (it was quite low), and when I got back in the car and turned the key the starter turned the engine OK but the engine wouldn't fire up.
I called Green Flag and the guy who came did all the checks as follows:

Checked that fuel was being pumped, pumped the priming button, listened for the fuel pump working OK. All appeared to be normal then he got the Easy Start out, removed the air intake pipe and squirted ethanol in the air intake while I cranked the engine. Hey presto it fired up and I was able to get home.

He advised me before he departed that when I got home I should leave the car for 30 mins and try again. I forgot to do the check but when I tried to start the car this afternoon it wouldn't again.

Having walked 6000 steps the the nearest auto spares shop I brought home a can of Easy Start and tried the trick again. All worked well so left it running for a while then stopped the engine. Left it for 30 seconds and the car started but took about 30 seconds before it would kick in. Left it for a minute and it took 45 seconds to start. Left it for 2 minutes and it wouldn't start at all.
So in summary the longer the car is left parked up the longer it takes the car if at all.

It seems like there may be some back flow somehow perhaps an air lock though the rescue man did take a fuel line off in the engine bay and pumped fuel out OK.

Given that the car can be started after 30 seconds the pump, injectors, glow plugs must be working. The fuel filter was changed in April this year following accidentally filling with petrol.

I havn't been able to get any fault codes using my cheap eBay bluetooth diagnostic tool.

I hope someone has the answer.

Thanks in anticipation.
Click to expand...

I'm curious as to what priming button the Green Flag guy pumped?:confused:
There is no priming button on the TD4, as it's a common rail system with high pressure lift pump.

I suspect that it's problem with the High Pressure (HP) regulator O rings. Possibly caused by the petrol fill earlier in the year. If it's before 2004, then a generic reader won't help. You need an LR specific reader to get codes from the EDC.
 
Nodge68 said:
I'm curious as to what priming button the Green Flag guy pumped?:confused:
There is no priming button on the TD4, as it's a common rail system with high pressure lift pump.

I suspect that it's problem with the High Pressure (HP) regulator O rings. Possibly caused by the petrol fill earlier in the year. If it's before 2004, then a generic reader won't help. You need an LR specific reader to get codes from the EDC.
Click to expand...
Hi Nodge68 thanks for the reply.
The guy was actually pressing the red button under the fusebox on the bulkhead LHS. :)
 
Has it got the second pump on the nearside wing.
You should hear it with the ignition on.
It sounds like an early model.
 
Yep I've ordered service kit off eBay as a cheap temporary fix for now until next year when Ill have a fuel delivery system checkup.

Given the new diesel taxes coming in I may just get rid of it or run it into the ground.

Thanks for the help
 
mediaseller said:
Yep I've ordered service kit off eBay as a cheap temporary fix for now until next year when Ill have a fuel delivery system checkup.

Given the new diesel taxes coming in I may just get rid of it or run it into the ground.

Thanks for the help
Click to expand...

What service kit? What are you planning to temporarily fix?

Diesel will be around for a good time yet, and I suspect will remain taxed at the current rate.
There's lots of BS floating about, but mostly is just BS.
 
Doh wrong part. I ordered this
Landrover TD4 Freelander High Pressure Fuel Pump Regulator MAV000040 Repair Kit

Don't ask me why perhaps I wasn't paying attention.
 
s-l225.jpg
Landrover TD4 Freelander High Pressure Fuel Pump Regulator MAV000040 Repair Kit
 
Hi all.
I had a little play this afternoon and did some research.

The service kit arrived but installing the kit looks a bit of a long job looking in the official service manual and I've booked her in for a checkup on Monday and I thought that fore-armed is for warned so I did a little more research on the web.

The red button I've been talking about pressing is the fuel cut off switch and it feels like it's locked down hard since there is no movement in it when pressed and it doesn't appear to be doing anything. Is it just used for resetting an inertia switch after an accident?

On another blog a guy cleaned his injector pump filter, (very fine gauze mesh), and it fixed his rough running and starting problems. See picture link below;
http://www.landroverblogger.com/freelander-diesel-running-rough

I do have an ELM327 bluetooth diagnostic dongle which I've used successfully on my wife's Fiesta and Focus before but in my car it's saying that there's no faults stored in my ECU. Perhaps it's a protocol incompatibility issue.

I'm thinking that anything I can feed the garage on Monday will prevent them fitting whole assemblies where it may not be required.

Any help would be gratefully received.

Kind regards
 
The pump filter in that blog is for a different engine. The L series engine to be exact, which is completely different to the TD4 engibe fitted to you Freelander.
Your ELM327 won't work on an 02 TD4 as it's not OBD2 compliant. You need to change the regulator O rings and go from there. ;)
 
Hi.

I had it in the garage this morning for assessment and they are suggesting that the fuel lift pump is at fault since the fuel pressure is way down. They seemed to ignore my suggestion that it could be the fuel pressure regulator as you said and gave them the kit with the 'O' rings in.
They said it may not be the answer to the problem in the first instance so I'm just considering whether to pay £280 to them on a whim that there solution may fix it.

I would be very grateful of your feeling in it.

Thanks in anticipation.
Kind regards
 
mediaseller said:
Hi.

I had it in the garage this morning for assessment and they are suggesting that the fuel lift pump is at fault since the fuel pressure is way down. They seemed to ignore my suggestion that it could be the fuel pressure regulator as you said and gave them the kit with the 'O' rings in.
They said it may not be the answer to the problem in the first instance so I'm just considering whether to pay £280 to them on a whim that there solution may fix it.

I would be very grateful of your feeling in it.

Thanks in anticipation.
Kind regards
Click to expand...
If the low side fuel pressure really is “way down” (it would be nice to know what it is) then it’s sensible to change the pump and filter. The petrol fill could have done untold damage - how long was it run with petrol for? Certainly worth changing the reg O-rings, even if the pump fixes the problem. It shouldn’t take a garage long to do that.

Is yours an 03 model year? If so, you only have a single pump in the right-hand rear wheel arch. Before that, there’s an in-tank pump too.
 
Hi.

My car was registered in September 2002.

The readings they got were 1.7 Bar, (should be 2.5 to 3 Bar) and they said fuel lift pump was giving too low pressure. They suggested this may not fix the problem so basically they are using the trial and error principle.

A second garage said that there isn't a lift pump in my model just a pump in the tank and one under the rear wheel arch and I'm inclined to believe the second garage since the first garage have tried it on before.

Thanks again
 
mediaseller said:
Hi.

My car was registered in September 2002.

The readings they got were 1.7 Bar, (should be 2.5 to 3 Bar) and they said fuel lift pump was giving too low pressure. They suggested this may not fix the problem so basically they are using the trial and error principle.

A second garage said that there isn't a lift pump in my model just a pump in the tank and one under the rear wheel arch and I'm inclined to believe the second garage since the first garage have tried it on before.

Thanks again
Click to expand...
My 2002 is registered later too and my pump in the right rear arch. Stick with the second garage for having the gumption. Mine has not shown signs of pump failure yet but have you had the Crank Case Breather replaced as they known for clogging up. The mod replacement cuts out the need to clean. Check your servicing records if any extra work been done also put some nice inject cleaner in the tank when your pump is repaired.
 
mediaseller said:
Hi.

My car was registered in September 2002.

The readings they got were 1.7 Bar, (should be 2.5 to 3 Bar) and they said fuel lift pump was giving too low pressure. They suggested this may not fix the problem so basically they are using the trial and error principle.

A second garage said that there isn't a lift pump in my model just a pump in the tank and one under the rear wheel arch and I'm inclined to believe the second garage since the first garage have tried it on before.

Thanks again
Click to expand...

The LP line should give a pressure reading of over 350Kpa (3.5 Bar) and ideally 380Kpa (3.8 Bar). So the first garage is correct that it's way to low. This could could potentially stop it from starting. If you unplug the low pressure sensor, the engine might run. The EDC will normally assume a fault and substitute a value that allows the engine to run, albeit with reduced performance. I'd be changing the low pressure pump/s and fuel filter. Avoid cheap aftermarket pumps, as life is limited. If it still doesn't run, then it is likely to be the Regulator O rings.
 
Hi All.
The latest is that the second garage tried to fir a tank pump however when they got in to the tank there was no pump there. Not fitted in this model/year.

They have tested the pressure all over including at the injector line and it's holding pressure when the engine is turned off so they are puzzled. This rules out the pressure regulator.

They ruled out the injectors because the symptoms for faulty injectors aren't present but they are going to take them out and check.

They told me that if it was the glow plugs then once the engine is hot it would start without them but it isn't.

They are going to check for any blockage in the Crank Case Breather to be sure.

It's a real puzzle. :-(
 
mediaseller said:
Hi All.
The latest is that the second garage tried to fir a tank pump however when they got in to the tank there was no pump there. Not fitted in this model/year.

They have tested the pressure all over including at the injector line and it's holding pressure when the engine is turned off so they are puzzled. This rules out the pressure regulator.

They ruled out the injectors because the symptoms for faulty injectors aren't present but they are going to take them out and check.

They told me that if it was the glow plugs then once the engine is hot it would start without them but it isn't.

They are going to check for any blockage in the Crank Case Breather to be sure.

It's a real puzzle. :-(
Click to expand...
What’s the low side fuel pressure?

It’ll be the wheel arch pump and filter you need to change - then go from there.

It’s unlikely to be the CCB.
 
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