2 year mot idea scrapped

Jongould said:

Well if people would take a bit of time and look into what they are actually talking about and not jumping on the bandwagon then I wouldnt be getting so ****ed off over it. This isnt just my feelings, this is something that VOSA themselves recognise, there isnt enough understanding of what is actually involved in the MOT by the general public so accusations fly about all over the place. Today im not in a great mood so maybe it came across strong but how would you like it if someone who has no understanding of your field of work came along and told you your not good enough??

As for my MOT standard, well being a green light garage for over 12 years and having been recognised as an excellent example of an MOT center I have no issues with my MOT standard. I understand there are garages that dont offer this quality of service but then its down to you to decide if fred the shed offering MOT's at £3.99 is really an acceptable place to get an MOT done?

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Happens all the time... work on the railway, people always slating NR for things, yet, when you look into a lot of claims it's either down to the train companies not having any drivers or down to thieving t**ts stealing cable or people jumping in front of trains (selfish bastards) - so - yes - i understand it is frustrating, but, nobody understands a business as much as the people who work in it and are always going to jump on the one-off bad examples they here of.

I've never trusted those cheaper than standard MOT centres... they have to make their money somewhere, so, would rather pay the going £50 and have it done by a reasonable place.

Oh and i'm probably quite unusual, but, do have a copy of the MOT test log book thingy and always go through it when doing my checks before an MOT - especially being as all my cars are classics, a lot of MOT centres are not familiar with older vehicles, which is fine, but, occasionally need things pointing out to them from the manual.

Jongould said:

There is nothing to disagree about, im telling you the facts, its not cheap to run a garage, its not 1 man in a shed, the regulations we have to stick to are absurd, the costs in paperwork is massive, its simply not cheap. Its not a case of me not being busy, I run the largest independent garage within 20 miles so I know whats what in this trade.

I admit im coming across strong here and quite possibly ****ing a few people off but its not nice having your trade insulted. I apologize if you think its personal but to me it does feel personal...

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How much do you charge per hour ? Im not saying its cheap i. Saying many garages overcharge and take the **** this is fact really it is maybe your not like this but many are fact

Bump said:

Oh and i'm probably quite unusual, but, do have a copy of the MOT test log book thingy and always go through it when doing my checks before an MOT - especially being as all my cars are classics, a lot of MOT centres are not familiar with older vehicles, which is fine, but, occasionally need things pointing out to them from the manual.

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If more people were like this it would be better for everyone, a basic understanding of the MOT should be mandatory for everyone, that way people wouldnt kick off when there car has failed on a CV boot or something similar.

AS for the classics, yeah thats a very valid point. Dealing with alot of classics myself (and having owned many 60's, 70's and 80's cars) I can concure that alot of testers struggle but this isnt surprising and generally classic owners have the understanding to deal with this...

dyte said:

How much do you charge per hour ? Im not saying its cheap i. Saying many garages overcharge and take the **** this is fact really it is maybe your not like this but many are fact

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I currently run at £52 per hour. Bear in mind though that not all jobs are booked out time for time, exhausts for example are charged at 15 mins yet often take longer, batteries and tyres have no labour charge at all and if I quote 3 hours and it takes 4 then I charge 3 still (unless its down to poor condition of the vehicle i.e. everything is rusted)

I tottaly understand the main dealers, im not a fan of main dealers, they are massivly over priced but like I said before they have a habity of convincing people they must come back to them.

There are quite a few places near me that do £25 MOTs or 'no pass no fee' but i avoid them like the plaque. As with any profession be it garages, plumbers, sparkies, builders etc etc there are always cowboys giving everyone a bad name. I think a garage you can trust is worth its weight in gold and unfortunatly they are few and far between.

The 2 year MOT was a stupid idea as people simply dont maintain their cars properly and just wait till the mot to see what it fails on.

Jongould said:

If more people were like this it would be better for everyone, a basic understanding of the MOT should be mandatory for everyone, that way people wouldnt kick off when there car has failed on a CV boot or something similar.

AS for the classics, yeah thats a very valid point. Dealing with alot of classics myself (and having owned many 60's, 70's and 80's cars) I can concure that alot of testers struggle but this isnt surprising and generally classic owners have the understanding to deal with this...





I currently run at £52 per hour. Bear in mind though that not all jobs are booked out time for time, exhausts for example are charged at 15 mins yet often take longer, batteries and tyres have no labour charge at all and if I quote 3 hours and it takes 4 then I charge 3 still (unless its down to poor condition of the vehicle i.e. everything is rusted)

I totaly understand the main dealers, im not a fan of main dealers, they are massivly over priced but like I said before they have a habity of convincing people they must come back to them.

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Where abouts are you?? I wish i could get away with charging £52pph, but im with you all the way the cost of running a garage is astronomical and i somtimes wonder if its all worth it (i run my own garage) then you get some **** telling you that all garages are rip of merchants COCK

oldskool said:

Where abouts are you?? I wish i could get away with charging £52pph, but im with you all the way the cost of running a garage is astronomical and i somtimes wonder if its all worth it (i run my own garage) then you get some **** telling you that all garages are rip of merchants COCK

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No need for that im not talking about all garages but many of them why do you think people have to come on forums to ask wheres a good garage as they most likely got screwed over from the last one it happens all the time just read some reviews on the net ok the meduim size independant is the most viable but as for places like **** fit they dont even know the basics alot will just want to plug you in and charge you a arm and leg for dignostics i thought the dignostic tool where supposed to make life easier but they still charge 100 bucks just to read a fault code granted the machines not cheap but 100 bucks

oldskool said:

Where abouts are you?? I wish i could get away with charging £52pph, but im with you all the way the cost of running a garage is astronomical and i somtimes wonder if its all worth it (i run my own garage) then you get some **** telling you that all garages are rip of merchants COCK

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Im in essex, I deal mainly new vehicles, MOT and servicing, fleet work e.t.c. Most of the specialist places round here are about £60-70 an hour, many of the smaller garages run about £40 an hour but are less equiped for modern vehicles.

dyte said:

No need for that im not talking about all garages but many of them why do you think people have to come on forums to ask wheres a good garage as they most likely got screwed over from the last one it happens all the time just read some reviews on the net ok the meduim size independant is the most viable but as for places like **** fit they dont even know the basics alot will just want to plug you in and charge you a arm and leg for dignostics i thought the dignostic tool where supposed to make life easier but they still charge 100 bucks just to read a fault code granted the machines not cheap but 100 bucks

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I can understand this but alot of the time those 'rip offs' arent rip offs. Ask any modern mechanic and they will tell you alot of vehicles now days are near impossible to diagnose 100% first time, sometimes a 'try it and see' approach has to be taken. Electrical components fail but the vehicles OBD systems will lead the mechanic elsewhere.

I have recently had this with a 2003 Corolla. The OBD systems told me the cat has failed, I 4-gassed it and the cats fine but its bringing up the MiL, I also tested the O2 sensors and they are within range, I gave the customer the option of either ignoring the light (it kept coming on after clearing) or changing the O2 sensor number 1 which is where the fault was supposedly present although I said there is no guarentee. He opted to change it and suprise surprise the light came back on. Now he went on to say that I have ripped him off, charged him for a repair I havent done e.t.c. even though I explained this before hand and also pointed him to many forums that are filled with similar issues and no solution, even main dealers are replacing both sensors and the cat to find that there is no change.

Now im not saying this is always the case but its not nice being told that we are all out to rip people off by people who dont understand the complexity of modern vehicles!

I do understand the complexity of them but you need to accept that people like you are a dying breed you are taking as im calling you dishonest when im not talking about you there are thousands of garages out theRe who arent honest my partner was quoted 560 quid for new front e pads and disqs on her 2006 laguna what the fooks that all about my step father had a misfire on his chevy/deawoo the dealer wanted to put a new head on it ? Was just a crack in the plastic inlet manifold they new this as his sons pal worked there as the apprentice and heard the boss telling the fitter to quote for a new head instead of new manifold

dyte said:

I do understand the complexity of them but you need to accept that people like you are a dying breed you are taking as im calling you dishonest when im not talking about you there are thousands of garages out theRe who arent honest my partner was quoted 560 quid for new front e pads and disqs on her 2006 laguna what the fooks that all about my father in law had a misfire on his chevy/deawoo the dealer wanted to put a new head on it ? Was just a crack in the plastic inlet manifold they new this as his sons pal work there as the apprentice and heard the boss telling the fitter to quote for a new head instead of new manifold

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Yeah ok I can accept that, its just painful when you try for years to lose the 'grease monkey rip of merchant' tag that the garage trade as a whole has got. I understand that there are plenty out there that do mug people off, I have had a garage tell me that I needed this and that when I had only serviced it a week before (got a puncture down south, got told I needed brakes and everything), but we are not all that way and those mechanics are a dying breed as they can not afford the rising costs of modern cars and their tooling. Hopefully in the future peoples attitudes will change, hopefully some will start to realise that thier cars are no longer the old skool mechanical things they use to be...

Jongould said:

Yeah ok I can accept that, its just painful when you try for years to lose the 'grease monkey rip of merchant' tag that the garage trade as a whole has got. I understand that there are plenty out there that do mug people off, I have had a garage tell me that I needed this and that when I had only serviced it a week before (got a puncture down south, got told I needed brakes and everything), but we are not all that way and those mechanics are a dying breed as they can not afford the rising costs of modern cars and their tooling. Hopefully in the future peoples attitudes will change, hopefully some will start to realise that thier cars are no longer the old skool mechanical things they use to be...

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The sad fact is the car makers know this too and they know the more complex they make them the more work for there dealers

dyte said:

The sad fact is the car makers know this too and they know the more complex they make them the more work for there dealers

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I use to think this but its more about cheaper construction methods I believe, theres an increasing number of times bolts dont come out and components are jammed behind others, its down to the fact that the engine/drivetrain is assembled outside the vehicle then slotted in, goes like clockwork on the production line but not when it comes to repairs...

dyte said:

The sad fact is the car makers know this too and they know the more complex they make them the more work for there dealers

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definately true not just complex but that cant comunicate unless on dealer specific computer
grease monkey ripoff merchant will be a name we get for a good while as simple truth is theres more people in the world that will take that bit extra on a job or make a mistake on make it the customers problem

I own a LR repair and service workshop. We use local MOT centres which is good in some ways because we get an independent person look the vehicle over using VOSA approved methods. The only issues we get tend to be in the interpretation, where a failure occurs when we feel it should be an advisory at worst, but either way the process works well and we accept the tester's view.

Regarding overheads, JonGould is absolutely right. I'm sure some places run on sub £2k a month. We run over £7K. Our trade policy is over £5000 yearly as it needs to cover equipment, tools, public liability, road risk, business loss and the actual premises we operate from. Leasing essential equipment is over £600 a month. Rent is £1350. Wages and wage tax is 4K. Water, business rates and electricity are just a minor drop in the ocean.

Obviously not aimed at you Jon - But there are very substandard (in our opinion) MOT centres who appear to be allowed by VOSA to continue operating. As an example, we had an early Defender 90 presented to us which had just been purchased. It looked rough before it went on the ramp. When it was on the lift, the underside was an absolute disaster. The rear chassis was pretty much non-existent. When I called the customer he said the seller had just put an MOT on it as part of the condition of sale. As you know, there is usually some signs of a test been done such as yellow markings or inspection marks on brake pipes or chassis, but this hadn't been touched. I know who issued the MOT certificate, which makes it all the more worrying - Another local LR independent.

I bought my discovery last february, with 13 months of mot, it was done by a Landrover dealer in the west country, I have just put it in for MOT and it needs 250 of welding, which the MOT station we always go to said, that there is no way the rust was less than a year old, i.e it was there last year when the dealer MOT'd it.
I wanted to report the dealer, but I was told if I did this the ministry of transport would get involved,and they would go over my landie with a fine toothcomb and I might never afford to get it back as I would have to pass a very over the top scrutinization, or at worse condem it. So I have paid for the work to be done at my garage I always use,

Ham Salad said:

I bought my discovery last february, with 13 months of mot, it was done by a Landrover dealer in the west country, I have just put it in for MOT and it needs 250 of welding, which the MOT station we always go to said, that there is no way the rust was less than a year old, i.e it was there last year when the dealer MOT'd it.
I wanted to report the dealer, but I was told if I did this the ministry of transport would get involved,and they would go over my landie with a fine toothcomb and I might never afford to get it back as I would have to pass a very over the top scrutinization, or at worse condem it. So I have paid for the work to be done at my garage I always use,

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I spose I`m lucky on my disco1 doosel,
as I have built/repaired cars & vans for years
(am 64 now!)
I got my disco 3 years ago for peanuts from a friend,
ran it for a year,
then parked it up waiting for the better weather.
summer came, then I got underneath!

3 months of my "spare" time ended up me cutting out and remaking most under body sections as required.

At the end of the day I know It was done right.

The more I read of car/landie owners being ripped off makes me believe I should have started my own repair service when i "could" do It.

Being from the old skool, I used to know cars by engine "noise"

but also having owned more complex cars also know the man in the street is boll oxed when it comes to fault finding at times.

A few years ago I had a Honda Legend,
full everything powered,
LOTS of power (restricted to just 140mph)
lifing the bonnet saw a maze of electrickery,
but so much fun to drive!!
I sold it on after 3 years "before" anything went wrong - just In case.

I read of more modern Landies & rangies corrupted with endless electrickery problems,
so, In time would I buy a more modern LR or RR,
nope, fraid not!

I`m more likely to buy an older series than a modern motor.

LESS is MORE in my eyes...