P38A 2.5 Auto DSE gearbox knackered?

deej078 · Jul 6, 2020

Hello all,

I have a P38 which me and my dad bought for the purpose of towing, last week whilst my dad was towing a boat, approximately 2.5 ton he started to lose drive whilst going up hill, shortly after noticing what he described as a manual clutch slipping he lost drive altogether. (at the top of a hill on a blind corner...

)

In his haste to try and get out of this tight spot he quickly pushed the stick over to low ratio without pausing and tried to move, needless to say it did nothing.

He did try to move again a few times but it wouldn't go, he said it tried to move but just wouldn't, anyway, eventually he got loaded on a lorry and was taken home where I met him.

When he came home, I noticed the recovery guy drove the P38 off the lorry and put it on the drive, so when he'd gone I decided to have a look. When I jumped in, started it up there were no warning lights or anything, I put it in drive and was able to move backwards and forwards on the drive without issue.

So, my question is, did the range rover go into some sort of protection mode or is the gearbox knackered?

I hope to go out for a proper test drive tonight as I've managed to sort a tow back if it breaks but just wondering if anyone has had the same problem and what they did if anything to fix? bearing in mind this is a tow vehicle for me, not just a runabout so i do need the full 3.5 ton capabilities.

Thanks.

jamesmartin · Jul 6, 2020

check the oil if its black its burnt clutch plates, which would mean a rebuild or another box

tomcat59alan · Jul 6, 2020

Could the t/box have been stuck between high and low? Effectively selected neutral which is usually selected by the placing of a fuse in the driver's sets fuse box in IMMIC fuse position 11I would check oil level as advised then move selector from high to low a few times,they can become temperamental if not used for a while.

deej078 · Jul 6, 2020

jamesmartin said:
check the oil if its black its burnt clutch plates, which would mean a rebuild or another box

No, the oil is a dark red colour. When comparing new oil with the stuff that's in, there is a difference, as in the used is darker but its definitely not black.

Prior to this, all fluids had been changed, probably less than 500 miles ago.

deej078 · Jul 6, 2020

tomcat59alan said:
Could the t/box have been stuck between high and low? Effectively selected neutral which is usually selected by the placing of a fuse in the driver's sets fuse box in IMMIC fuse position 11I would check oil level as advised then move selector from high to low a few times,they can become temperamental if not used for a while.

I don't think so as it tried to move but just couldn't, I suppose a bit like if you try to set off in 3rd gear in a manual.

tomcat59alan · Jul 6, 2020

deej078 said:
No, the oil is a dark red colour. When comparing new oil with the stuff that's in, there is a difference, as in the used is darker but its definitely not black.

Prior to this, all fluids had been changed, probably less than 500 miles ago.

That doesn't sound good.

Datatek · Jul 6, 2020

When the fluids were changed, was the correct filling procedure followed?
Engine cold and idling, through all the gears and top up to correct level.

deej078 · Jul 7, 2020

Datatek said:
When the fluids were changed, was the correct filling procedure followed?
Engine cold and idling, through all the gears and top up to correct level.

I believe so, the guy that did it for me is a Mazda tech now but he used to be a Land Rover tech and worked on the P38's for quite a few years.

deej078 · Jul 7, 2020

So, last night we did some tests, I would be interested to know your thoughts.

1st test was to take it for a run, no hills or anything, just within walking distance. It was fine so I then went further afield and up a few hill's, 1 hill in particular was Jenkin road in Sheffield which is quite steep, it romped up no problem, in fact I had to slow down.

Next test was in a car park using all gears, properly this time and they all seemed to work fine.

Final test, used my dads Mk1 transit recovery pickup to act as a dead weight to pull, I put the range rover in drive while my dad had is foot on the brakes in the pickup, it wouldn't move, I then changed to low ration 1 while my dad still had his foot on the brakes, we moved, he couldn't hold it back. I then put it in 2, it started to move but then the rope snapped.

All in all for me, it felt and drove OK, I'm wondering whether to just try and put fresh oil in the box and see how it goes, whats your thoughts?

Just an additional note too on the oil that was removed, it was filtered after removal and there wasn't a single spec of anything in the filter, nothing at all, but its definitely darker than the new stuff.

Datatek · Jul 7, 2020

deej078 said:
So, last night we did some tests, I would be interested to know your thoughts.

1st test was to take it for a run, no hills or anything, just within walking distance. It was fine so I then went further afield and up a few hill's, 1 hill in particular was Jenkin road in Sheffield which is quite steep, it romped up no problem, in fact I had to slow down.

Next test was in a car park using all gears, properly this time and they all seemed to work fine.

Final test, used my dads Mk1 transit recovery pickup to act as a dead weight to pull, I put the range rover in drive while my dad had is foot on the brakes in the pickup, it wouldn't move, I then changed to low ration 1 while my dad still had his foot on the brakes, we moved, he couldn't hold it back. I then put it in 2, it started to move but then the rope snapped.

All in all for me, it felt and drove OK, I'm wondering whether to just try and put fresh oil in the box and see how it goes, whats your thoughts?

Just an additional note too on the oil that was removed, it was filtered after removal and there wasn't a single spec of anything in the filter, nothing at all, but its definitely darker than the new stuff.

I just wonder if the oil level is low. Certainly worth changing the oil again. Also worth checking that the oil cooler is not blocked and if it has a fan fitted that the fan works.

deej078 · Jul 7, 2020

Datatek said:
I just wonder if the oil level is low. Certainly worth changing the oil again. Also worth checking that the oil cooler is not blocked and if it has a fan fitted that the fan works.

When the filler nut was removed, about 2 liters came out of that...

That's interesting about a fan on the oil cooler, it doesn't have a fan that I've noticed, I would definitely like one there though if possible?

brianp38dse · Jul 7, 2020

You will get oil come out if you have the engine off, as Data mentioned engine cold start engine run it briefly through gears and check whilst still running if its right you should only get a little dribble.

wammers · Jul 7, 2020

deej078 said:
When the filler nut was removed, about 2 liters came out of that...

That's interesting about a fan on the oil cooler, it doesn't have a fan that I've noticed, I would definitely like one there though if possible?

Should be around four to four and half litres on draining. If it was only two it was short of oil. Does your car have a dip stick? If it does it will not have a cooler fan. I suggest you change oil and add a bottle of Lucas to free off any stickiness in valve block.

Datatek · Jul 7, 2020

wammers said:
Should be around four to four and half litres on draining. If it was only two it was short of oil. Does your car have a dip stick? If it does it will not have a cooler fan. I suggest you change oil and add a bottle of Lucas to free off any stickiness in valve block.

It was 2 litres out of the filler plug.

Datatek · Jul 7, 2020

deej078 said:
When the filler nut was removed, about 2 liters came out of that...

That's interesting about a fan on the oil cooler, it doesn't have a fan that I've noticed, I would definitely like one there though if possible?

What year is your car? Early ones did not have the fan but a fan could be obtained from a breaker and fitted. The airflow to the cooler is not blocked by a fog light bay any chance? Worth checking that the cooler is not full of mud too.

wammers · Jul 7, 2020

Datatek said:
It was 2 litres out of the filler plug.

Ok i do wish these people would state year of car as requested.

wammers · Jul 7, 2020

Datatek said:
What year is your car? Early ones did not have the fan but a fan could be obtained from a breaker and fitted. The airflow to the cooler is not blocked by a fog light bay any chance? Worth checking that the cooler is not full of mud too.

Before 1999 there was no fan and the box had a dipstick.

Datatek · Jul 7, 2020

wammers said:
Before 1999 there was no fan and the box had a dipstick.

But you never know what changes have been made, when I swap the gear box on my MY 2000 it will gain a dipstick.

wammers · Jul 7, 2020

Datatek said:
But you never know what changes have been made, when I swap the gear box on my MY 2000 it will gain a dipstick.

It certainly makes sense to do that. Removing the dipstick was a stupid idea. Possibly so oil changes were not as easy for the home mechanic. A dealer friendly mod let us say.

deej078 · Jul 8, 2020

Its an R reg 1997
There is no dipstick on the gearbox and nor is there a fan on the cooler.

P38A 2.5 Auto DSE gearbox knackered?

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