(19J) It just won't start...

Evening folks.

I've joined the forum in my time of need, having just acquired my first 1988 Land Rover 90.

I got it as a non-runner, though it was starting and driving for the previous owner, and all of a sudden just stopped 1 day after he pulled it out of the shed and left it idling (about a week before I got it).

Now this is where I'm lost;

I have just had the injector pump fully stripped and reconditioned by a very reputable diesel specialist, assuming that it was at fault. He told me that the diaphragm was gone and that it had passed a lot of water in its time due to marks on the head in the pump, and it was heavily contaminated, but after all the work he put into it, it was testing perfectly on the bench and he said it couldn't be running better.

I brought it home and fitted it after parting with £474, and was most annoyed when it wouldn't go. I was only getting a small drop of diesel to each injector, which was telling me that the injector pump wasn't getting enough fuel, so I then tackled the lift pump. I removed the pipe to the filter and primed the pump for about 15-20 mins to fill the filter, and came to the conclusion that it wasn't lifting as much diesel as it should, so I fitted an inline electric pump ti fill the filter and by-pass the lift pump.

With the inline pump wired up, I was able to bleed the injector pump with the 8mm bolt on top of the pump, and there was a brave bit of pressure behind it which was a good sign (the inline pump is doing it's job), but even with the inline pump filling the filter and getting diesel to the injector pump, it's still not letting massive amounts out of the injector feeds, but I wasn't expecting loads anyway, just a steady flow which I'm getting.

The problem is, it's not even making an attempt to fire up now. I'm not getting any smoke out of the exhaust at all...

The previous owner is a genuine guy that I've known for a long time and he has assure me that the injectors were reconditioned and tested a couple of thousand miles ago and that they should be in good working order.

Any idea's..?

Any help or input would be gratefully received.

Many thanks.

Nicky
Busted LR owner

PS - Sorry for the very long winded first post. Just wanted to let you's know that I'm not on here looking for a miracle cure without actually trying to resolve the issue first...

Cheers

Have you checked the timing ? Seeing as you've removed the injector pump the timing will almost certainly be out and so it won't start properly.

Also why not just replace the lift pump with a direct replacement ? Not sure if an in line is recommended ?

Yes, the timing belt indeed had to come off to remove the injector pump, but it has been refitted properly, with all the marks on the pulleys lining up perfectly to the marks on the engine as they should.

Unless you're going to tell me that the marks on these 19J's aren't actually where the pulleys need to be? I know this is the case with the 1.5 litre DOHC Nissan engine when lining up the timing chains, but it took a Nissan specialist to correct me on that 1, and it solved the lumpy idle issue I had with it a couple of years ago.

Have you checked the feed to... and the operation of.. the stop solenoid?

Oh.. and best go introduce yourself properly in the Intro section... unless your hide is titanium!

:welcome2: btw...

Beneagles said:

Have you checked the feed to... and the operation of.. the stop solenoid?

Oh.. and best go introduce yourself properly in the Intro section... unless your hide is titanium!

:welcome2: btw...

Click to expand...

I've already made an introduction thread, though it said it is waiting moderators approval before being allowed on the board..?

And yes, I, along with the pump specialist have both had the solenoid out and tested the plunger with the power probe and it's pulling in fully when powered. It's also getting power from the jeep itself, so that feed is fine. That was actually my first port of call, hoping it would be a cheap fix

Why are you getting power from a Jeep?

Sounds daft, but my old series once packed in on the way to Norfolk. Pulled into a petrol station, idling for a few minutes turned off and rested while we ate/filled up/toiletted etc and wouldn't start, absolutely nothing.

Took about 10 minutes to find the battery earth was so corroded nothing was getting through anywhere (we'd not had it long ourselves) and though we'd noticed 'oddities' with the electrics, we put them down to age. When the earth was re-made correctly and other earth straps replaced all worked fine. Get us there and home fix was just a few bits of wiring to replace the earthing!!!

Paul D said:

Why are you getting power from a Jeep?

Click to expand...

Forgive me, I shouldn't have used the word jeep, but it's what just about every 4x4 is referred to here, regardless of manufacturer.

What I meant was that the stop solenoid is getting power from the Land Rover's own wire to open it, and not just opening when powered with the power probe. Basically, it's opening/closing as it should when the vehicle is turned on or off.

Just taking the ****, gently ..

Where's 'here'?, it might help .. or not! Again, might sound daft, but have previous owners ever tried to stop it getting stolen by fitting a cheap immobiliser or hidden switch?

Have you tried bump-starting it or tow-starting it? Does the engine turn on the key properly and it's not firing? If so, worth re-checking timing isn't 180 degrees out ..

If there's fuel getting to the injectors then it's either timing, the injectors being faulty but a 200tdi will run on 1 cylinder (just) so unless they're pretty much all gone I doubt it unless they're clogged. Or massively destroyed head gasket. Have you got a compression tester just to be sure ?

Paul D said:

Just taking the ****, gently ..

Where's 'here'?, it might help .. or not! Again, might sound daft, but have previous owners ever tried to stop it getting stolen by fitting a cheap immobiliser or hidden switch?

Have you tried bump-starting it or tow-starting it? Does the engine turn on the key properly and it's not firing? If so, worth re-checking timing isn't 180 degrees out ..

Click to expand...

Here refers to Northern Ireland, which is far too warm for my liking at the minute. The thermometer in my other motor said 31 degrees earlier

And I've had a look around the wiring. A lot of it leaves much to be desired with what looks like years of DIY roadside fixes in place, but from what we can see, everything is connected as it should be with no unnecessary immobilisers in place.

I would tow it with my Frontera (is that word allowed on here? ), but to be honest, I would at least like to see it putting a little smoke out of the exhaust first, so I know it's going to do something...

I'll get a pic of the timing marks and fire them up here for clarification, so you can see what I mean about the pulleys being at the marks as I still have the cover off at the minute.

Here's the timing marks:





Wound it over a few times, then lined the marks up again with the big socket and the marks are as they were...

Looks close enough to run although not perfect but when is a landrover ever . two revolutions of the crank and all the marks should line up again, 1 and the crank should be 180 degrees out to the cam and pump

Actually isn't the fuel pump 1 tooth out ?

Beat me to it, but it looks like the marks aren't quite right. Do as said, wind it over twice, not 'a few' times ..

Yeah, 1 full revolution of the crank puts the cam and pump 180 degrees out.

I played about with the belt and had it on/off like a strobe light, and getting the cam pulley lined up was a ballache as it kept trying to "jump" approx 90 degrees forward, but that's the closest I got the marks yet, and imagined it would still allow it to run at least, however badly.

I know there is slight adjustment in the 3 mounting bolts on the injection pump itself, but I have it set to "neutral", or as close to it as I can see as the nuts cover the elongated holes when they are in place. Would there be enough adjustment in either direction in it to throw it off so badly..?

200tdi ayre said:

Actually isn't the fuel pump 1 tooth out ?

Click to expand...

I climbed up on the wing and got my head down in and eyed it up along the tooth. It was bang on. I'm guessing it's the angle of the pic.

Isn't there a way on 19J's to lock the pump to stop it from moving when adjusting the belt ?
There is for the TDI's

I would have thought, despite above, that it'd run like that, or at least try to run, I've seen worse, I've done worse ..

Has the head been off recently? Just wondering at the condition of it ..

Yeah, the head gasket was done a few months back, before I got it. It was driving fine up until a week before I got it, around a month ago, then just stopped 1 day the guy left it running outside his shed.

Since doing the HG, he has had it climbing big grass banks, driving around the yard and generally using it around the fields to save the legs a bit. He reversed it out of his shed and left it running while he went to gather tools or something and it just quit. No huge rev, no gradual stutter, nothing.. It just quit as if turned off at the key (which it wasn't).