101 replacement engine cover project

I'm just starting to sort out making a new engine cover for my 101 as
the existing one annoys me and has big gaps all round it.

I have been trying to work out exactly what to make it out of.

I have some 1inch angle iron which i was going to weld and bolt into
some sort of frame. Onto this i was going to mount some ally panels.

The whole thing is going to be easily and quickly removable for easy
engine access (unlike the standard cover!)

However - what sort of thickness ally should i be thinking of using if
i want to be able to stand on it and also want to be able to cut it
up/work it easily?

The existing cover seems to be about 2mm. Is this a sensible sort of
thickness to make something you want to stand on out of, or can i go
thinner (like 1.2mm or so) - as this would be a lot easier to work as
it can be cut with snips.
I can always put more supports under it - or will it just deform lots
the first time i stand on it even if i do this?

Looking at my landy, things like the doors only seem to be about 1-1.5
mm or so, and i know that i can stand on a flat landy door without it
collapsing. Is normal ally the same sort of strength as landy ally
though? I have been told and read that birmabright is stronger.


I have also been thinking about sound proofing. I have some sheets of
plywood hanging about and was considering building them into a sort of
'outer skin' for the engine cover.
Would they do much to deaden the noise, and would they take the heat
without combusting or warping?

I will also buy some proper heat reflective sound proofing stuff to
stick underneath the ally, but was just wondering if the ply was worth
bothering with for even more peace and coolness.

Thanks

Gut feeling is that thinner aluminium would be better, combined with a
central bracing piece from the angle iron. Lighter and stronger I
suspect.

A decent thickness of plywood will make it pretty heavy. It will soak
up a load of heat, but how warm can you get plywood before it warps
horribly? I'd have thought the heat-reflective stuff would be good
(assuming your cooling system is up to absorbing the heat back!) and
some nice thick carpet on the outside.

I'd be happy to trial the prototype for you....


--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'77 101FC Ambulance aka "Burrt"
'03 Volvo V70

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:29:19 +0100, Tim Hobbs
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Gut feeling is that thinner aluminium would be better, combined with a
>central bracing piece from the angle iron. Lighter and stronger I
>suspect.

I'd have thought any andvantages from lighter ally would have been
lost by the increased amount of bracing.
However, I think that i'm going to have to end up with a fair few
support braces anyway if i want to make the cover split in the centre
(to get it past the gear stick easily) and not be liable to swallow me
up when i tread on it

I think 1.2mm is winning as i can cut that up with my snips outside
the ally supplier and dont have to pay extra to have it cut up across
the road (so it will fit in the car to take home!)

>A decent thickness of plywood will make it pretty heavy. It will soak
>up a load of heat, but how warm can you get plywood before it warps
>horribly? I'd have thought the heat-reflective stuff would be good
>(assuming your cooling system is up to absorbing the heat back!) and
>some nice thick carpet on the outside.

My cooling system is as good as any 101 (so crap!)

>I'd be happy to trial the prototype for you....



Hmm. maybe i shall try a prototype version with just angle and 1.2mm
ally. I've got to start somewhere. It will certainly be a lot less
work than using ply and 2mm ally.

"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I think 1.2mm is winning as i can cut that up with my snips outside
> the ally supplier and dont have to pay extra to have it cut up across
> the road (so it will fit in the car to take home!)

You could build a cardboard prototype... then lay all the bits on another
bit of cardboard and work out how to get the most out of a sheet of 2mm
ally...

Then get the ally you need and have it chopped to fit in/on your car.

Then drop it off at a friends (who owes you a favour still) with the
templates for a week (weather dependant workshop).

As a suggestion.. having been in a state of suspension over the engine of
Morph earlier you could have it go all the way back to the horizontal
support on the bulkhead. This is about 4 inches above the pannel where the
eber ducts drop through... That way once its removed you can get maximum
access to the engine bay. And it will also be a little more on the level
rather than rearward slope.

This thread could go on for weeks... would be far better around a camp fire
with beer to help the ideas flow.


)

Lee D

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 23:13:44 +0100, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I think 1.2mm is winning as i can cut that up with my snips outside
>> the ally supplier and dont have to pay extra to have it cut up across
>> the road (so it will fit in the car to take home!)
>
>You could build a cardboard prototype... then lay all the bits on another
>bit of cardboard and work out how to get the most out of a sheet of 2mm
>ally...

a cardboard prototype would be far too sensible!

I was hoping that the sheets of ally wouldnt actually cost too much so
i could justify maybe playing with the design a bit to see how it
went.
The angle is cheap enough so i can justify wasting a length of it
getting my frame made! (I think it was £5 for 12metres...)

>Then get the ally you need and have it chopped to fit in/on your car.
>
>Then drop it off at a friends (who owes you a favour still) with the
>templates for a week (weather dependant workshop).

hmm. I never considered chopping it up with your fancy toy

I might have to come round with a pile of bits of angle that i want
shaping to make into my roof rack mounty bits.

>As a suggestion.. having been in a state of suspension over the engine of
>Morph earlier you could have it go all the way back to the horizontal
>support on the bulkhead. This is about 4 inches above the pannel where the
>eber ducts drop through... That way once its removed you can get maximum
>access to the engine bay. And it will also be a little more on the level
>rather than rearward slope.

It is going back all the way to the horizontal strut at the bottom of
the bulkhead, since i have holes there from where i removed the heater
pipework.

I wasnt sure wether i should keep it level all the way back or not, as
doing so would loose me some valuble interior space, so i may put a
little slope halfway back (pretty much just to follow the gear linkage
down)

I was very tempted to chop out that horizontal beam and extend the
surface right back (my bed centre could stow under it then) but it
looks kinda structural!

Due the the way the top of the radiator sticks up over the level of
the centre dash shelf (where the hi/lo lever is) you can never make
the whole thing level, so its going to have uppy-downy bits whatever
you do

>This thread could go on for weeks... would be far better around a camp fire
>with beer to help the ideas flow.

Its getting far too close to the time (summer) when i wanted to be
able to drive the 101 to places where i could have camp fires!

I'd have been bothering you for input on my plans over the last week
or so if you were on messenger! but youve been far too stealthy!

>)
>
>Lee D
>

I've bought some 1.2mm and its a lot thicker than i thought!

By the look of it, its going to be plenty strong enough!

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:17:26 +0100, Tom Woods <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I'm just starting to sort out making a new engine cover for my 101 as
>the existing one annoys me and has big gaps all round it.

I hated mine more than anything in the history of anythingness - but
then again, I did used to have to take it off a lot...

It's easy to take off now I've 'moved the gearstick' ;-)

>The existing cover seems to be about 2mm. Is this a sensible sort of
>thickness to make something you want to stand on out of, or can i go
>thinner (like 1.2mm or so)

Not all ally is created equal... 1.2 is strong, but you need to look
at where the braces are on the existing cover and try to duplicate
them. The design team spent a LOT of time on the engine cover - and
for what it's worth, their time was well spent.

>I have also been thinking about sound proofing. I have some sheets of
>plywood hanging about and was considering building them into a sort of
>'outer skin' for the engine cover.

Don't use anything like ply.

>Would they do much to deaden the noise, and would they take the heat
>without combusting or warping?

Could kill you...

>I will also buy some proper heat reflective sound proofing stuff to
>stick underneath the ally, but was just wondering if the ply was worth
>bothering with for even more peace and coolness.

No.

Are you planning on going to Marque Day @ Gaydon weekend after next?

If so, take a look at what I've done with mine. Someone else
mentioned getting the shape right with card - this is the best advice
you're likely to see here, believe me, I've wasted too much time and
resources before finding card is chaeper and far easier to work with
to make the _perfect_ pattern

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:29:27 +0100, Mother <"@ {m} @"@101fc.net>
wrote:

>It's easy to take off now I've 'moved the gearstick' ;-)

I need to actually get the truck usuable before i can really justify
an auto!. Use it properly even! I went and bought a car and that
'project' took 12 montsh away from my 101 project

>>The existing cover seems to be about 2mm. Is this a sensible sort of
>>thickness to make something you want to stand on out of, or can i go
>>thinner (like 1.2mm or so)
>
>Not all ally is created equal... 1.2 is strong, but you need to look
>at where the braces are on the existing cover and try to duplicate
>them. The design team spent a LOT of time on the engine cover - and
>for what it's worth, their time was well spent.

I'm not scrapping the existing one!. Its going to sit in the shed to
use if all my plans dont work!

>Don't use anything like ply.
>
>Could kill you...

So could a lot of things!. Ply is out now though. its gonna be angle
with ally over it, some soundproofing underneath and then probably
some carpet on top.
>
>>I will also buy some proper heat reflective sound proofing stuff to
>>stick underneath the ally, but was just wondering if the ply was worth
>>bothering with for even more peace and coolness.
>
>No.
>
>Are you planning on going to Marque Day @ Gaydon weekend after next?

Is it that soon?. I was planning to go... Gaydon is the best show in
my opinion now. Billing seems to have lost its charm to me.

>If so, take a look at what I've done with mine. Someone else
>mentioned getting the shape right with card - this is the best advice
>you're likely to see here, believe me, I've wasted too much time and
>resources before finding card is chaeper and far easier to work with
>to make the _perfect_ pattern

Got any pictures?. I have a few hours to spare tommorow so was hoping
to maybe rig up version 1.

On Wednesday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "Tom Woods" wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:29:27 +0100, Mother <"@ {m} @"@101fc.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Don't use anything like ply.
> >
> >Could kill you...
>
> So could a lot of things!. Ply is out now though. its gonna be angle
> with ally over it, some soundproofing underneath and then probably
> some carpet on top.

Plywood is a good material for a flat panel, and has better fire
resistance than GRP, which is why some kit cars use it as the base for
the bulkhead. Like most materials, it has to be used in the right way,
and ply is very easy to bodge.

Fire resistance is certainly important. Use the right soundproofing.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."

> Plywood is a good material for a flat panel, and has better fire
> resistance than GRP, which is why some kit cars use it as the base
for
> the bulkhead. Like most materials, it has to be used in the right
way,
> and ply is very easy to bodge.
>

I used to design Kit Cars (The Burlington Arrow), and made the entire
bodies out of plywood, not just the bulkhead. The engine compartment
was skinned with 18 SWG ally and I've never heard of any problems with
heat warping the wood or setting fire to it. Sound reduction was
excellent.
I've also owned London Taxis and replaced most of the floors and
gearbox cover with ply.
Wonderful stuff !!!

Haydn
www.looking4bits.com

On 12 May 2005 11:04:38 -0700, "BurlingtonArrow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>> Plywood is a good material for a flat panel, and has better fire
>> resistance than GRP, which is why some kit cars use it as the base
>for
>> the bulkhead. Like most materials, it has to be used in the right
>way,
>> and ply is very easy to bodge.
>>
>
>I used to design Kit Cars (The Burlington Arrow), and made the entire
>bodies out of plywood, not just the bulkhead. The engine compartment
>was skinned with 18 SWG ally and I've never heard of any problems with
>heat warping the wood or setting fire to it. Sound reduction was
>excellent.

Its nice to know that it can be done!

Ive currently made my cover out of 1.2mm ally (this is 18 gauge isnt
it?) over a welded angle iron frame.

Drove it today and considering that it has no soundproofing. wasnt
screwed down tight and had a few holes (not fitted the trim round the
gearstick yet) it wasnt that bad in terms of noise.

I am still tempted to cover it with ply on top!

>I've also owned London Taxis and replaced most of the floors and
>gearbox cover with ply.
>Wonderful stuff !!!

The 101 ambi rear floor is made of ply too. Didnt realise that till i
started stripping it out.

On Sun, 15 May 2005 00:58:57 +0100, Tom Woods <[email protected]>
made me spill my meths when he wrote:

>I am still tempted to cover it with ply on top!

For soundproofing or to keep it looking tidy?

I've seen some nice and tidy jobs done using chamfered strips of
hardwood runners to protect panels from damage, maybe secondary
benefit of stopping drumming or vibration etc on unsupported areas. I
suppose cues can be taken from marin projects for the neater ideas,
the rough and ready load bed rails don't quite look the same for
interior work or camper jobs. If they are laid across the engine cover
then they will stop your jacket potato sliding forwards.

>>I've also owned London Taxis and replaced most of the floors and
>>gearbox cover with ply.
>>Wonderful stuff !!!

Angle iron and wrinkly tin, for that nuclear aftermath effect.


--

Wayne Davies, Harrogate 07989 556213

Just another point of view...
www.4x4prejudice.org

On Sun, 15 May 2005 10:20:33 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>On Sun, 15 May 2005 00:58:57 +0100, Tom Woods <[email protected]>
>made me spill my meths when he wrote:
>
>>I am still tempted to cover it with ply on top!
>
>For soundproofing or to keep it looking tidy?

Both!

Whilst i can cut a nice tidy sheet of ally, im cannot bend edges
nicely! (the fact that my workbench is a pile of paving slabs at the
bottom of the garden probably also doesnt help!)

>I've seen some nice and tidy jobs done using chamfered strips of
>hardwood runners to protect panels from damage, maybe secondary
>benefit of stopping drumming or vibration etc on unsupported areas. I
>suppose cues can be taken from marin projects for the neater ideas,
>the rough and ready load bed rails don't quite look the same for
>interior work or camper jobs. If they are laid across the engine cover
>then they will stop your jacket potato sliding forwards.

Whatever i do, i am probably going to cover it in carpet afterwards
and hide it!. I got a good deal on a roll of industrial carpet.
The only problem is going to be to get the carpet to sit nicely round
the bends. It needs to be removable. Am probably going to try glueing
a strip of plastic angle to the bottom of it to make an edge, but i
have no idea if that will work!

>>>I've also owned London Taxis and replaced most of the floors and
>>>gearbox cover with ply.
>>>Wonderful stuff !!!
>
>Angle iron and wrinkly tin, for that nuclear aftermath effect.

In an ideal world i would be able to make it out of ally which is
welded together, but i dont have an ally welder yet!.. (Lee - Have you
considered buying one of these yet?.. it would sit nicely next to the
plasma cutter! )