101 Front diffs

S

steve Taylor

Guest

• Oct 12, 2006

• #1

Just about ready to jig the diff to rotate it, to save a lot of
measurement (more) work does anyone know how the kingpins are oriented
on a 101 ? Are they parallel to the front of the diff and each other
(easy to jig) or is the camber and castor set there ?
Thanks for any input.

Steve

 

A

AJG

Guest

• Oct 12, 2006

• #2

In message <[email protected]>, steve Taylor
<[email protected]> writes
>Just about ready to jig the diff to rotate it, to save a lot of
>measurement (more) work does anyone know how the kingpins are oriented
>on a 101 ? Are they parallel to the front of the diff and each other
>(easy to jig) or is the camber and castor set there ?

I'm willing to be corrected but I believe the castor (and camber) are
set when the swivels are welded on ... so the latter of your options ...

--
AndyG

 

A

Al Gorithm

Guest

• Oct 13, 2006

• #3

steve Taylor wrote:
> Just about ready to jig the diff to rotate it, to save a lot of
> measurement (more) work does anyone know how the kingpins are oriented
> on a 101 ? Are they parallel to the front of the diff and each other
> (easy to jig) or is the camber and castor set there ?
> Thanks for any input.
>
> Steve
Its normal for the king pins to be inclined so that a line taken along
their axis would hit the ground at the centre line of the tyre.
steve the grease

 

L

Lee_D

Guest

• Oct 13, 2006

• #4

Al Gorithm <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> steve Taylor wrote:
>> Just about ready to jig the diff to rotate it, to save a lot of
>> measurement (more) work does anyone know how the kingpins are
>> oriented on a 101 ? Are they parallel to the front of the diff and
>> each other (easy to jig) or is the camber and castor set there ?
>> Thanks for any input.
>>
>> Steve
> Its normal for the king pins to be inclined so that a line taken along
> their axis would hit the ground at the centre line of the tyre.
> steve the grease

Is it though? Would you get the castor effect then? Steve may no longer be
able to perform J turns when doing escape and evade scenarios at our next
play day.

Lee D

By the way I was kidding about the E&E!

 

A

Austin Shackles

Guest

• Oct 13, 2006

• #5

On or around Fri, 13 Oct 2006 12:00:55 +0100, "Lee_D"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>Is it though? Would you get the castor effect then? Steve may no longer be
>able to perform J turns when doing escape and evade scenarios at our next
>play day.

there are 2 angles, castor and camber. Castor angle is the one that, when
looking from the side of the vehicle, the bottom of the kingpin is nearer
the front of the vehicle than the top, so that a line projected down to the
ground through the kingpin hits the ground in front of a vertical through
the front wheel. This distance is known as trail and is the one that makes
it self-centre when going forwards.

camber is the one that, when looking from ahead of the vehicle, the bottom
of the kingpin is further from the centerline of the vehicle than the top,
so that a line projected down to the ground through the kingpin hits the
ground about in the middle of the tyre. This is so that the wheel doesn't
move backwards and forwards unduly when it's turned.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero" (sieze today, and put
as little trust as you can in tomorrow) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Odes, I.xi.8

 

E

EMB

Guest

• Oct 13, 2006

• #6

Austin Shackles wrote:

> camber is the one that, when looking from ahead of the vehicle, the bottom
> of the kingpin is further from the centerline of the vehicle than the top,
> so that a line projected down to the ground through the kingpin hits the
> ground about in the middle of the tyre. This is so that the wheel doesn't
> move backwards and forwards unduly when it's turned.

Almost Austin... what you've described is King Pin Inclination. Camber
is the angle of the actual wheel relative to vertical when in the
straight ahead position.



--
EMB

 

A

Alex

Guest

• Oct 13, 2006

• #7

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 01:05:25 +1300, EMB <[email protected]> wrote:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> camber is the one that, when looking from ahead of the vehicle, the bottom
>> of the kingpin is further from the centerline of the vehicle than the top,
>> so that a line projected down to the ground through the kingpin hits the
>> ground about in the middle of the tyre. This is so that the wheel doesn't
>> move backwards and forwards unduly when it's turned.
>
>Almost Austin... what you've described is King Pin Inclination. Camber
>is the angle of the actual wheel relative to vertical when in the
>straight ahead position.

To be fair, the camber is set by the relative position of the hub to
the kinpin and the inclination of the kingpin itself. Moving the
position of the top of the bottom of the kingpin would result in a
change to the camber, assuming the hub is fixed to the kingpin, which
it is on the 101.

Incidentally, the 101 doesn't have a kingpin, in the strict sense, it
has two bearings instead. In fact, most vehicles these days don't have
kingpins any more. They either have two bearings or balljoints, top
and bottom, the line between the two representing what used to be the
kingpin (common in 4wd vehicles); or, as in a large percentage of FWD
and RWD vehicles, they don't even have two joints, rather one lower
joint and MacPherson Struts. In vehicles which have two joints or
bearings, it is correctly referred to as the Kingpin Axis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macpherson_strut
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingpin_(mechanics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_wishbone

Alex

 

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steve Taylor

Guest

• Oct 13, 2006

• #8

Alex wrote:
> To be fair, the camber is set by the relative position of the hub to
> the kinpin and the inclination of the kingpin itself.

That's what I mean. The camber is 1 deg and the castor is 1.5, which
COULD be on the hub, and not the kingpin axis.

>
> Incidentally, the 101 doesn't have a kingpin, in the strict sense, it
> has two bearings instead.

That explains why I wasn't happy when I wrote it - there not being a
"King" pin.

Anyway, diff is back from being shot blasted, and is looking incredibly
"new", before the real work starts.

Getting the bearings off the bits took a 25 ton puller !

Steve

 

L

Lee_D

Guest

• Oct 14, 2006

• #9

steve Taylor <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz
funny about:
> That explains why I wasn't happy when I wrote it - there not being a
> "King" pin.
>
> Anyway, diff is back from being shot blasted, and is looking
> incredibly "new", before the real work starts.
>
> Getting the bearings off the bits took a 25 ton puller !
>
> Steve

Took mine to a local indianeer wot did it. The bearings in the nose cone a
did myself with a little help from a friend. Thudump.

All sounds like you might just pull it off pre unofficial.... then again
have you got to bleed the brakes or did you leave the hubs dangling?

Lee D

 

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steve

Guest

• Oct 14, 2006

• #10

Lee_D wrote:

> All sounds like you might just pull it off pre unofficial.... then again
> have you got to bleed the brakes or did you leave the hubs dangling?

MIGHT well make it. Bleeding the brakes is easy with a vacuum bleeder.
Honest.

Steve

 

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Alex

Guest

• Oct 14, 2006

• #11

On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 10:39:11 +0100, steve
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Lee_D wrote:
>
>> All sounds like you might just pull it off pre unofficial.... then again
>> have you got to bleed the brakes or did you leave the hubs dangling?
>
>MIGHT well make it. Bleeding the brakes is easy with a vacuum bleeder.
>Honest.

I re-route the brake pipes on landrovers, to move the bleed nipple to
the other wheel cylinder, at the top. Makes it much easier to bleed.
Bleeding the backs on a 101 is made a lot easier by releasing the load
valve and opening it fully.

Alex