03 Range Rover 4.4 Gas Conversion

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"EMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> So as to stop them venting - the last thing you want in the aftermath of
> a fire is a cloud of flammable gas hanging around.

> A phenomenon known as a BLEVE (Boiling Liquid Evaporating Vapour
> Explosion). Incredibily destructive and bloody frightening, but highly
> unlikely to occur in any 1st World produced LPG equipment.

> Indeed, and I was merely trying to point out the sheer stupidity of the
> various entities that wanted to know nothing about an LPG powered vehicle.

Agreed, but what has common sense got to do with this litigious society we
live in :cool:, I was merely pointing out one person's ownership experience
with LPG.

Greg


 
On or around Wed, 11 Oct 2006 00:19:53 +0100, "Greg"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>"Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> They shouldn't be let loose with a tax disc holder never mind a trolley
>jack
>> within 100 yards of an LPG tank.
>>
>> In my experience they are well meaning but generally dangerous people to
>> have working on a car.
>
>Well if you think everyone is going to pay dealer prices I'm afraid you've
>got another think coming!.

Lee was referring to quick-fit style places, which I too eschew as they're
mostly staffed by monkeys, hardly surprising as I expect they pay peanuts.
>
>> **** happens - Would a Petrol car give any warning at all of a leak?
>
>Er, would a petrol car suddenly produce clouds of explosive and asphixiant
>gas?, the fact that they saw fit to install the warning device speaks
>volumes to me.

If the system is installed properly, the valves are in a sealed box on the
tank which is vented to the outside, through the floor. The gas being
heavier than air, it will not asphyxiate people in the car under those
conditions.

You've have to get a silly amount too much gas in the tank to have this
happen - the normal shut-off happens at 80% liquid level. If the shut-off
malfunctioned, then the tank could get full to 100%, and as a result if it
were subjected to a temperature increase, it could vent gas. However, for a
few degrees temperature rise the liquid gas would have to be very near to
100% of the tank of the tank capacity, and that only happens if you've not
used any after filling up. I guess it could happen if you live next-door to
the garage, but I wouldn't expect it if you'd driven more than about 10
miles.

You are also supposed to use a modicum of common sense - if the tank
normally only takes 45l from empty to shut-off, then when it suddenly starts
going up to about 50+ litres, you're supposed to think "hang on..." and stop
filling it.

If the shut-off on the petrol nozzle failed to act, you'd not keep on
pumping petrol once your tank was full, after all.

all these things should be in the instructions and possibly are not...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'
 

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:34:22 +0100, Ian Rawlings
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >On 2006-10-10, Badger <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> RUBBISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >Yeah yeah. It's a pressurised system, which you state yourself, and
> >if it leaks it'll huff nasty gas everywhere. I don't like petrol
> >either, but a pressurised vessel stuffed with gas doesn't sound like
> >an improvement.
>
> still true that the tank is a hell of a lot tougher, and has better safety
> systems in place. A properly installed system has no less than 3 shut-off
> valves which require a 12V supply to open and shut under spring pressure.
>
> Yes, it can vent gas in the event of a fire. But it doesn't spew gallons
of
> flammable liquid everywhere - and if you get into a violent enough
collision
> that you manage to rupture the tank, then you're not likely to be in much
> condition to notice...
>
> I guess a very hot localised fire on one spot could soften the tank so
it'd
> rupture. I'm not sure how you'd get such a fire, though, except from an
oxy
> torch. Although pressurised, it's not very high pressure, normally
between
> 100 and 150 psi, ish.
>
> Austin Shackles

I think you'll find it liquefies at about 105 p.s.i.

I would have thought if it was factory fitted that he shouldn't have had a
problem with warranty or insurance and that he could have got cheap rate
V.E.D as well as avoiding congestion charges. Mine (R/Rover) used to work
out costing about 9p / mile which was good but I've now gone back to diesel
power.

Only problem for me was it switched to gas over 2000 r.p.m automatically and
if you just kept your foot down it would backfire in the plenum chamber
(e.f.i) and frighten people nearby and occasionally blow a few breather
pipes off so I had to stop to push them back on. It wasn't as bad if I gave
it a quick rev before moving off. Ended up with a concave disc valve after
the air flow meter.

Martin


 
"Oily" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> I would have thought if it was factory fitted that he shouldn't have had a
> problem with warranty or insurance

That's what he was told by the dealer, unfortunately his experience was a
little different 8-(

Greg


 
On or around Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:58:10 +0100, "Oily"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>I think you'll find it liquefies at about 105 p.s.i.

dependant on temperature.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
Robert Frost (1874-1963) from Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening
 

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:58:10 +0100, "Oily"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >
> >I think you'll find it liquefies at about 105 p.s.i.
>
> dependant on temperature.
>
"Definitely, Lord Copper", but not that much as it's not like the
engine coolant, the temperature of the gas doesn't vary much therefore
neither does the pressure. I've heard of splitting hairs but..... :)


 
On or around Wed, 11 Oct 2006 22:22:36 +0100, "Oily"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On or around Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:58:10 +0100, "Oily"
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>> >
>> >I think you'll find it liquefies at about 105 p.s.i.
>>
>> dependant on temperature.
>>
> "Definitely, Lord Copper", but not that much as it's not like the
>engine coolant, the temperature of the gas doesn't vary much therefore
>neither does the pressure. I've heard of splitting hairs but..... :)
>

hehe. however, one of the local garages has a pressure gauge on the pump,
and it definitely shows more pressure on some days than others.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"'Tis a mad world, my masters" John Taylor (1580-1633) Western Voyage, 1
 

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Wed, 11 Oct 2006 22:22:36 +0100, "Oily"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >
> >"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On or around Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:58:10 +0100, "Oily"
> >> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >I think you'll find it liquefies at about 105 p.s.i.
> >>
> >> dependant on temperature.
> >>
> > "Definitely, Lord Copper", but not that much as it's not like the
> >engine coolant, the temperature of the gas doesn't vary much therefore
> >neither does the pressure. I've heard of splitting hairs but..... :)
> >
>
> hehe. however, one of the local garages has a pressure gauge on the pump,
> and it definitely shows more pressure on some days than others.
>

Naah, that's for blowing tyres up. :))

Martin


 
In message <[email protected]>, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> writes
>On 2006-10-10, Badger <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> RUBBISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Yeah yeah. It's a pressurised system, which you state yourself, and
>if it leaks it'll huff nasty gas everywhere. I don't like petrol
>either, but a pressurised vessel stuffed with gas doesn't sound like
>an improvement.
>
>I'll stick with diesel as much as I can, you have to put a lot of
>effort into making that go up!
>
Then I suggest you remove all the brake fluid from your car as that is
far more dangerous than LPG, petrol or diesel.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
In message <[email protected]>, Oily
<[email protected]> writes
>
>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On or around Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:34:22 +0100, Ian Rawlings
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>> >On 2006-10-10, Badger <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> RUBBISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> >
>> >Yeah yeah. It's a pressurised system, which you state yourself, and
>> >if it leaks it'll huff nasty gas everywhere. I don't like petrol
>> >either, but a pressurised vessel stuffed with gas doesn't sound like
>> >an improvement.
>>
>> still true that the tank is a hell of a lot tougher, and has better safety
>> systems in place. A properly installed system has no less than 3 shut-off
>> valves which require a 12V supply to open and shut under spring pressure.
>>
>> Yes, it can vent gas in the event of a fire. But it doesn't spew gallons
>of
>> flammable liquid everywhere - and if you get into a violent enough
>collision
>> that you manage to rupture the tank, then you're not likely to be in much
>> condition to notice...
>>
>> I guess a very hot localised fire on one spot could soften the tank so
>it'd
>> rupture. I'm not sure how you'd get such a fire, though, except from an
>oxy
>> torch. Although pressurised, it's not very high pressure, normally
>between
>> 100 and 150 psi, ish.
>>
>> Austin Shackles
>
>I think you'll find it liquefies at about 105 p.s.i.
>
>I would have thought if it was factory fitted that he shouldn't have had a
>problem with warranty or insurance and that he could have got cheap rate
>V.E.D as well as avoiding congestion charges. Mine (R/Rover) used to work
>out costing about 9p / mile which was good but I've now gone back to diesel
>power.
>
>Only problem for me was it switched to gas over 2000 r.p.m automatically and
>if you just kept your foot down it would backfire in the plenum chamber
>(e.f.i) and frighten people nearby and occasionally blow a few breather
>pipes off so I had to stop to push them back on. It wasn't as bad if I gave
>it a quick rev before moving off. Ended up with a concave disc valve after
>the air flow meter.
>
>Martin
>
>
There is no problem with the warranty on a factory fitted Vauxhall - if
the OP allows himself to be fobbed off so easily that's his problem.

Similarly there are no significant problems with insurance other than
many requiring an installers certificate - not necessarily LPGA approved
in many cases.

--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
In message <[email protected]>, Greg
<[email protected]> writes
>"Badger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> An LPG tank is the same as a propane cylinder,
>> go attack one with a sledgehammer and see if you can put much of a dent in
>> it
>
>Try hitting the brass valve and watch it fly across the room, believe me
>they won't stand a heavy knock, that's why they're protected by the steel
>frame around the top, a system is only as strong as it's weakest part.
>
>> but as for a pump's pressure causing an overfill - that's crap!
>
>Yes he suspected as much, he's also had a lot of reliability issues and
>suspected a vehicle fault caused the over filling, but of course the dealer
>said it was someone else's fault, the same dealer that sold him the
>worthless warranty...
>
>Greg
>
>
Overfilling in itself won't cause any running problems. The only danger
is that you reach 100% fill and the pressure increases due to increase
in temperature e.g. you park in the sun, then the solenoids lock.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
In message <[email protected]>, Oily
<[email protected]> writes
>
>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On or around Wed, 11 Oct 2006 22:22:36 +0100, "Oily"
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>> >
>> >"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >> On or around Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:58:10 +0100, "Oily"
>> >> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >I think you'll find it liquefies at about 105 p.s.i.
>> >>
>> >> dependant on temperature.
>> >>
>> > "Definitely, Lord Copper", but not that much as it's not like the
>> >engine coolant, the temperature of the gas doesn't vary much therefore
>> >neither does the pressure. I've heard of splitting hairs but..... :)
>> >
>>
>> hehe. however, one of the local garages has a pressure gauge on the pump,
>> and it definitely shows more pressure on some days than others.
>>
>
>Naah, that's for blowing tyres up. :))
>
>Martin
>
>
Ah you see it is dangerous, it blows up your tyres. What next may I ask?
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
In message <[email protected]>, Oily
<[email protected]> writes
>
>"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On or around Wed, 11 Oct 2006 20:58:10 +0100, "Oily"
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>> >
>> >I think you'll find it liquefies at about 105 p.s.i.
>>
>> dependant on temperature.
>>
> "Definitely, Lord Copper", but not that much as it's not like the
>engine coolant, the temperature of the gas doesn't vary much therefore
>neither does the pressure. I've heard of splitting hairs but..... :)
>
>
The ambient temperature in the UK varies from about -10C to about +30C.

--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
In message <[email protected]>, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> writes
>If the shut-off on the petrol nozzle failed to act, you'd not keep on
>pumping petrol once your tank was full, after all.
Oh yes they do. How many times do you see the muppets filling right up
to the last drop - and then drive off dribbling petrol behind them.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
On 2006-10-13, hugh <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:

> Then I suggest you remove all the brake fluid from your car as that is
> far more dangerous than LPG, petrol or diesel.

Nope.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
"hugh" <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Overfilling in itself won't cause any running problems. The only danger
> is that you reach 100% fill and the pressure increases due to increase
> in temperature e.g. you park in the sun, then the solenoids lock.

In his case overfilling did cause problems, it started venting on the
motorway and he had to evacuate the vehicle, as I explained in my post.
Greg


 
In message <[email protected]>, Greg
<[email protected]> writes
>"Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> They shouldn't be let loose with a tax disc holder never mind a trolley
>jack
>> within 100 yards of an LPG tank.
>>
>> In my experience they are well meaning but generally dangerous people to
>> have working on a car.
>
>Well if you think everyone is going to pay dealer prices I'm afraid you've
>got another think coming!. I have one particular places I've come to trust
>and while they've made the odd silly they've also bent over backwards to
>help on many occasions. The most important thing to me is that they've never
>tried to cheat me which is more than I can say for every dealer I've ever
>used, oh and dealers make just as many sillies.
>
>> **** happens - Would a Petrol car give any warning at all of a leak?
>
>Er, would a petrol car suddenly produce clouds of explosive and asphixiant
>gas?, the fact that they saw fit to install the warning device speaks
>volumes to me.
>
>Greg
>
>
You are assuming that the warning light had the function ascribed to it
by this particular dealer who has already been shown to be a charlatan.

On the other hand it may just have been the engine check light which had
come on to show the emissions were out of spec.

I'm beginning to smell a bit of a troll here.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
"hugh" <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> You are assuming that the warning light had the function ascribed to it
> by this particular dealer who has already been shown to be a charlatan.
>
> On the other hand it may just have been the engine check light which had
> come on to show the emissions were out of spec.

I'm not assuming anything, nor was John, it wasn't a light it was a message
on the disaplay saying "Evacuate vehicle immediately", not a lot of scope
for assumption there :cool:.

> I'm beginning to smell a bit of a troll here.

Then I suggest you stop sniffing yourself because you're the only one
behaving like a troll here, I simply reported on a colleague's experiences
of LPG ownership. You're the one making idiotic suggestions like "remove all
the brake fluid from your car" to try and sustain an argument.

Greg


 
In message <[email protected]>, Greg
<[email protected]> writes
>"hugh" <hugh@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> You are assuming that the warning light had the function ascribed to it
>> by this particular dealer who has already been shown to be a charlatan.
>>
>> On the other hand it may just have been the engine check light which had
>> come on to show the emissions were out of spec.
>
>I'm not assuming anything, nor was John, it wasn't a light it was a message
>on the disaplay saying "Evacuate vehicle immediately", not a lot of scope
>for assumption there :cool:.
>
>> I'm beginning to smell a bit of a troll here.
>
>Then I suggest you stop sniffing yourself because you're the only one
>behaving like a troll here, I simply reported on a colleague's experiences
>of LPG ownership. You're the one making idiotic suggestions like "remove all
>the brake fluid from your car" to try and sustain an argument.
>
>Greg
>
>
The majority of fires in car accidents are caused by self ignition of
brake fluid not by the petrol or LPG. hence if you are concerned about
LPG fires you should be even more worried about your brake fluid. Didn't
think I would need to spell it out.
--
hugh
Reply to address is valid at the time of posting
 
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