£210

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Ian Rawlings wrote:

>
>> With their long travel suspension CTs also make sense if you are
>> surrounded with speed humps.

>
> Tosh.
>


Not *quite*.

The place I used to live had a set of speed humps about 9" tall and 16' long
- I could actually park my car on top of one of them. Problem was I
couldn't get it on top of them going forwards - the ground clearance at the
front wasn't enough to climb them without damaging the airdam. It was an
XJ-S, but even so, normal cars with low frontends are hardly unknown.

They were eventually replaced with center-humps when the local bus company
told the town council to take a running jump when they were asked to run
services there due to completely hedgehogging the suspension of any bus
that used the route.

P.
 
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:55:13 +0000, Judith wrote:

> - What CO2/km is my 1997 Disco 1 likely to chuck out? I have MOT Test
> smokemetre printouts but it's not clear what the numbers mean.


Smoke <> CO2. If your vehicle has a CO2 rating it'll be on your V5 and I
think on your RFL renewal deamnd.

My 2001 DII TD5 chucks out 262g/km of CO2.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:15:33 -0000, Larry wrote:

> If Greenpeace really had any sence they would go for the insurance
> companies instead and encourage them to make Chelsea Tractors virtually
> uninsurable.


Well they ain't going to upset the wealthy suburban middle class are
they? Thats where they get their money from.

> I lost faith with Greenpeace when ...


They promote wind as a primary source of alternative energy. They seem to
ignore the fact that wind farms only produce 1/3 of their rated capacity,
at best, on average and that the wind doesn't blow all the time.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:55:11 -0000, Neil Brownlee wrote:

> * Vehicles registered before 1st March 2001


17th May 2001... feck.

> * Vehicles registered on or after 23rd March 2006


Note: Vehicles registered from tommorow. So *all* currently registered
vehicles with CO2 emmisions above 186g/km will stay in Band F and pay:
Diesel £195, Petrol £190, Alternative £180. So it isn't quite as bad as
the news could have you believe.

Bit of a pain if you are getting a new car registered tommorow and it's
above 226g/km. Registered today and you'd be in band F at £195, tommorow
band G and £215 (diesel).

http://www.dvla.gov.uk/vehicles/Changes_to_cost_of_vehicle_tax.htm has
all the blurb.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 

"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2006-03-22, Neil Brownlee <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> The actual changes are...
>>
>> * Vehicles registered before 1st March 2001
>>
>> Duty for vehicles above 1549cc increased from £170 to £175. Duty for
>> smaller engines unchanged at £110.

>
> Based on that, I only get a £5 increase on all my vehicles, which is
> OK. I've not got anything newer than 1997!


My disco (on LPG) is a 2000, so no probs there, really. My old 110 (1983,
again on LPG) only does around 2000 miles a year tops however, so any
increase is a pain and unfair as I see it due to the lower mileages done.

> It seems odd that they're taxing diesel engines more than petrol for
> newer cars though, I know that diesel is more polluting on a local
> basis but it's less polluting on a global basis. Diesel pollution
> is more of a problem in cities but that can be dealt with locally, and
> a diesel car that hardly ever goes into a city (like mine) doesn't
> contribute to that. Diesels are also more readily converted to burn
> better fuels.


Ahem. The type of pollutants (well, the main one of current concern anyway!)
that disiesels emit (carcinogenic particulates) are considerably worse at
local level than any other fuel types, we need to look at the bigger picture
than simply global warming. That is only one small sector of the whole
pollution "thing". As I see it, the only way of dealing with these
particulates would be to retrospectively fit particulate traps to ALL diesel
engined vehicles, especially buses, taxis and lorrys. Just look at what your
average bus kicks out as it pulls away from a bus stop!! Other than that,
it's down to the hospitals to pick up the pieces. What fuels would you
advocate burning in a diesel that aren't hydrocarbon based and therefore
emit particulates?
The ONLY current widely commercially available and viable alternative fuel
currently marketed in this country that has been proven to give lower
emissions is LPG, and the ****ers have started to increase the duty on that
now! And can you get your vehicle "down-banded" if you have it converted? No
chance, FFS! The tax ought to be either scrapped and put directly onto the
fuel, where consumption and mileage travelled = tax paid, or be rebanded in
such a way that you are taxed according to the emissions printout from your
last MOT test, thereby being taxed exactly according to your pollution
levels as tested, this would then compensate for alternative, cleaner fuels.

Just my take on it.
Badger.


 

"Bob Hobden" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "John Smith" wrote
>> FFS.
>>
>> £210 for a Toerag in W1 seems fair, and even generous.
>>
>> £210 for a 10-yr-old diesel Defender on a farm?
>>
>> These people have No Idea.
>>

> Of course they have no idea, John Prescott does not have a driving licence
> and for that matter neither does Ken Livingstone the Mayor of London.
> How many guys their age do you know that have never driven, and we have
> two of them making laws that affect driving!
> It's a crazy country we live in.


I blame the f8ck1n9 ar53holes that voted both these tw4ts into power!
Badger.


 
Well, you can see by the amount of debate here already that when push comes
to shove a potential car buyer is going to be too confused by all the grades
to actually bother to calculate it all out and will end up doing what he
usually does: buys the one he wants and what suits his social need. What
annoys me is the steady thrust towards portraying the large car owner as
some kind of pariah. This does no good at all for social harmony which is a
bit pushed at times as it is.

Nick
North Norfolk

"Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:55:11 -0000, Neil Brownlee wrote:

> * Vehicles registered before 1st March 2001


17th May 2001... feck.

> * Vehicles registered on or after 23rd March 2006


Note: Vehicles registered from tommorow. So *all* currently registered
vehicles with CO2 emmisions above 186g/km will stay in Band F and pay:
Diesel £195, Petrol £190, Alternative £180. So it isn't quite as bad as
the news could have you believe.

Bit of a pain if you are getting a new car registered tommorow and it's
above 226g/km. Registered today and you'd be in band F at £195, tommorow
band G and £215 (diesel).

http://www.dvla.gov.uk/vehicles/Changes_to_cost_of_vehicle_tax.htm has
all the blurb.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail




 
On 2006-03-22, Badger <[email protected]> wrote:

> My disco (on LPG) is a 2000, so no probs there, really. My old 110 (1983,
> again on LPG) only does around 2000 miles a year tops however, so any
> increase is a pain and unfair as I see it due to the lower mileages done.


Yeah, I work from home so a mileage based tax would be ace for me! Do
it based on mileage recorded on MOT certs. A small proportion of
people would cheat however, so it's much more acceptable to RFID tag
everyone, put cameras on every road, recognise their numberplates and
put cameras in our homes, we'll all end up as brains in glass tanks I
tell you.

> Ahem.


Those damned smokey diesels eh.

> The type of pollutants (well, the main one of current concern anyway!)
> that disiesels emit (carcinogenic particulates) are considerably worse at
> local level than any other fuel types, we need to look at the bigger picture
> than simply global warming.


Hmm, what, universal pollution? Not sure diesel/petrol are much of a
problem on a solar system scale.

> That is only one small sector of the whole pollution "thing". As I
> see it, the only way of dealing with these particulates would be to
> retrospectively fit particulate traps to ALL diesel engined
> vehicles, especially buses, taxis and lorrys.


Or ban traffic from cities, who the feck wants to drive in a city
anyway! It's in the cities that the diesel pollution is a real
problem. I saw some article on the beeb website a few moons ago
talking about a study done that revealed that children living near bus
stations were 30x more likely to get whatever cancer than kids living
in the country. A petrol engine in the country causes almost as much
harm as one in a city, but a diesel engine in the country causes less
harm than one in a city because the pollution is more localised.

Note *more* localised, not entirely localised.. IIRC diesels don't
put petrol in the shade when it comes to the other pollutants, it's a
bit less but we're not talking 50% or anywhere near that. Can't be
arsed to look it up, still digesting my food.

> What fuels would you advocate burning in a diesel that aren't
> hydrocarbon based and therefore emit particulates?


Sod yer particulates! Put a hanky on the exhaust pipe. They're only
a problem in the cities and like I said before, they can be dealt with
on a local basis. Particulate pollution in Reading can be tackled
with action by the local government, but non-particulate pollution
that affects the atmosphere as a whole can't be dealt with locally.
Biofuels can help there, and diesels are currently most suited to
taking advantage of those. Those blasted hybrid cars are packed full
of electronics and dodgy battery chemicals, which doesn't help at all.

> emissions is LPG, and the ****ers have started to increase the duty on that
> now!


Any fuel that's cheaper soley down to reduced tax was going to end up
like this, I'm surprised anyone bothered with LPG as the vehicle has
to undergo an invasive conversion and then you have to hope the
government of the day doesn't whack the tax up on a whim.. Never
seemed worth it to me, especially when a diesel can run on camel
****.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
On 2006-03-22, Paul S. Brown <[email protected]> wrote:

> The place I used to live had a set of speed humps about 9" tall and 16' long
> - I could actually park my car on top of one of them. Problem was I
> couldn't get it on top of them going forwards - the ground clearance at the
> front wasn't enough to climb them without damaging the airdam. It was an
> XJ-S, but even so, normal cars with low frontends are hardly unknown.


I know, I've got a (non-running) old car that has major problems with
the ramps in multi-storey car parks having both a very low slung body
and somewhere between 1.5 and 2 feet of overhang at the front, however
speed bumps that it couldn't handle were very rare indeed, I don't
recall any.

I've heard people argue that they have to have a BMW X5 or similar
because they "need" them "due to speed bumps", which is the most
pathetic excuse in the world.

> They were eventually replaced with center-humps when the local bus company
> told the town council to take a running jump when they were asked to run
> services there due to completely hedgehogging the suspension of any bus
> that used the route.


They have centre humps around the hospitals in Reading too to stop
patient-shaped dents in ambulance roofs appearing.

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:37:26 +0000, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2006-03-22, Neil Brownlee <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The actual changes are...
>>
>> * Vehicles registered before 1st March 2001
>>
>> Duty for vehicles above 1549cc increased from £170 to £175. Duty for
>> smaller engines unchanged at £110.

>
>Based on that, I only get a £5 increase on all my vehicles, which is
>OK. I've not got anything newer than 1997!


Nothing newer than 1980 here ;)

i did get slightly annoyed after i LPG'd my car that it still falls
into the highest road tax band..
...however, i'm self employed and claim back a mileage allowance off
the taxman - and its the same for my car per mile on lpg as it was on
petrol :)
 
....and Larry spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> I lost faith with Greenpeace when they overestimated the amount of
> pollutants in that oil platform that was towed out to sea and sunk.


You're being too kind. Greenpeace later admitted that the figures were
actually a downright lie, but justified it as being true in a green kind of
way, or something. Like the animal rights terrorists justify their violence
by claiming it's for a greater good. Greenpeace lost it with me from that
day on.

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.


 
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:54:33 +0000, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> With their long travel suspension CTs also make sense if you are
>> surrounded with speed humps.

>
>Tosh.


How many speedbumps do you drive over each week?

I just worked this out and i can do up to 100 bumps some weeks!

In my cars i get through a lot of exhausts and am now used to welding
around suspension mounts!
If I was a normal person buying a new car (rather than driving lots of
classic old cars and landrovers!) i'd be going for something with some
decent groundclearance to avoid the bumps!
 
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:03:01 -0000, "Badger"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I blame the f8ck1n9 ar53holes that voted both these tw4ts into power!
>Badger.


I was thinking about that today. Everybody whinges about the budget,
yet i didnt vote for them and none of my mates have admitted to it
either - but somebody must have done!

 
....and Ian Rawlings spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...

> I've heard people argue that they have to have a BMW X5 or similar
> because they "need" them "due to speed bumps", which is the most
> pathetic excuse in the world.


There is a monster speed bump on the road into our local Do It
All/Motorworld/MFI place. To be honest, Land Rovers aren't the most
comfortable vehicles to tackle it. Both the Disco (and the S2a even more
so) make a bit of a meal of it. Slow is like any other vehicle, with the
knowledge that you aren't going to ground anything. Fast, and you get a
crash that reverberates through the structure, with a nice bounce on the
other side (plus, in the S2a, a torque wrench on the back of the head). The
car to do speed bumps in is Di's Focus - get the speed right (ie pretty
swift) and you hardly notice it's there. Light springs and good damping, I
reckon.

Anyone who says they "need" a 4x4 to tackle speed bumps knows nothing about
bumps, or speed. Or anything.

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.


 
....and Tom Woods spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:03:01 -0000, "Badger"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I blame the f8ck1n9 ar53holes that voted both these tw4ts into power!
>> Badger.

>
> I was thinking about that today. Everybody whinges about the budget,
> yet i didnt vote for them and none of my mates have admitted to it
> either - but somebody must have done!


Not that many! They claim a mandate from the electorate, but they were only
elected by something like a quarter of those eligible to vote.
Three-quarters either voted against them, or didn't like them enough to turn
out. Some mandate! All that stuff about Bliar being power mad and wanting
to run the UK like a dictator seems less crazy than it did a few years ago,
after the news of the last couple of weeks.

"Profumo" was a byword for dishonourable conduct when I was a kid. I'm
still waiting for any of the Neu Labor crew to put his/her hands up, say "I
did wrong" and leave with dignity as he did. All he did was tell a lie to
the House. Hardly merits an apology these days.

</rant>

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.


 
In message <[email protected]>, Ian Rawlings
<[email protected]> writes
[Snip}
>> emissions is LPG, and the ****ers have started to increase the duty on that
>> now!

>
>Any fuel that's cheaper soley down to reduced tax was going to end up
>like this, I'm surprised anyone bothered with LPG as the vehicle has
>to undergo an invasive conversion and then you have to hope the
>government of the day doesn't whack the tax up on a whim.. Never
>seemed worth it to me, especially when a diesel can run on camel
>****.


Whenever I read of someone advocating LPG conversions for thirsty
engines because, even though fuel consumption tends to be heavier than
with petrol, the fuel is so much cheaper than petrol, I am struck by the
fact that no mention is made that LPG is a finite resource.

I would add that I am stuck with LPG for domestic heating (unless I find
a lot of money for switching to oil) and, watching the price of LPG rise
almost by the day, I am a bit prickly on the subject :)
--
Peter

 
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:41:24 -0000, NW wrote:

> What annoys me is the steady thrust towards portraying the large car
> owner as some kind of pariah. This does no good at all for social
> harmony which is a bit pushed at times as it is.


Agreed, it was wrankling on me at lunchtime, before the Budget, that they
where using the phrase "gas guzzling 4x4s". I did notice that this did
seem to change to "gas guzzlers" later. Now did they get some phone
calls? Though I doubt they'd be passed down fast enough, so it's more
likely the presenters just got fed up saying the longer phrase.

And why the pre-occupation with the private motorist? What about all the
trucks, what mpg do they get? Nothing like the 28/gallon my DII averages
I bet. Get the trucks of the road an onto more effcient transport, like
rail or even the canals.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
Ian Rawlings <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> Any fuel that's cheaper soley down to reduced tax was going to end up
> like this, I'm surprised anyone bothered with LPG as the vehicle has
> to undergo an invasive conversion and then you have to hope the
> government of the day doesn't whack the tax up on a whim.. Never
> seemed worth it to me, especially when a diesel can run on camel
> ****.


But it's still a Diesel and will never be a V8!

Our Disco came LPG fitted so no problems faffing around. Regardless of the
raise in duty it's still half the price of petrol. For us works out cheaper
than Diesel for the milage, has a much nicer drive and doesn't leave my ears
ringing post trip. :)

It also makes me very smug when I fill up with gas each time we have a knee
jerk petrol shortage, yup smug as a smug thing!

I've had Diesel Landrover / Range Rovers and I know where my preference is.

Lee

--
www.lrproject.com



 
....and Dave Liquorice spake unto the tribes of Usenet, saying...


> On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:41:24 -0000, NW wrote:
>
>> What annoys me is the steady thrust towards portraying the large car
>> owner as some kind of pariah.


> And why the pre-occupation with the private motorist? What about all
> the trucks, what mpg do they get?


Aviation fuel is consumed in massive quantities without any duty being
paid - and the pollution is squirted out right there high in the atmosphere
where it can disperse and do the most damage. I would like to see 47p/litre
duty charged on that (and VAT added on top of the duty) before I would think
that any further penalties on the motorist were justified on environmental
grounds. We'd just have to get used to paying a realistic price to fly
anywhere.

Trouble is, the people who are keenest on their £1 return flights to Majorca
are the people who are keeping this bunch of dishonest bastards in power.

--
Rich
==============================

There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.


 
On or around Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:59:37 -0000, "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>My disco (on LPG) is a 2000, so no probs there, really. My old 110 (1983,
>again on LPG) only does around 2000 miles a year tops however, so any
>increase is a pain and unfair as I see it due to the lower mileages done.


although of course you'll pay much less duty and VAT via the fuel...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Something there is that doesn't love a wall."
Robert Frost (1874-1963)
 
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