Disco TD5 - viscous fan

[thebiglad]

As some of you will know I'm very much an advocate for running Discos without viscous fans, assuming the cooling system is operating and maintained correctly.

When we get another TDi one of the first jobs I do is to remove the viscous fan as I believe that they are over-cooled and this results in slower warm-up and cooler-than-desirable engine temps.

Well today I've given the TD5 the same treatment, 36mm spanner and RH thread of course.

Imediately the warm-up is noticeably quicker (was about -6° with us last night), the heater works sooner, the engine and autobox get to their operating temps sooner and appear to stay as they should.

Also off course you have much better access to engine components such as drive belts.

If I encounter any issues I'll let you all know.

Usually when I do this on TDi's the mpg improves by about 2 more miles per gallon - so we'll see?

 

[andymach23]

Interesting idea Dave. Keep us posted!

Cheers, Andy

 

[thebiglad]

Interesting idea Dave. Keep us posted!

Cheers, Andy

Will do Andy. As I said I've done this before with the TDi's we have/had without any downsides, so I've now plucked up the courage to do it to the TD5 .

Next step will be non-cat downpipe and straight-thru' centre pipe, just not today, it's been bright but REALLY cold

 

[martinhollings]

have done it to mine and its loads better and its ok when in traffic but i dont trust the temp guage but i have one of these for back up and well worth the money Haydn Coolant Alarms (Powered by CubeCart)

 

[thebiglad]

have done it to mine and its loads better and its ok when in traffic but i dont trust the temp guage but i have one of these for back up and well worth the money Haydn Coolant Alarms (Powered by CubeCart)

Hi Martin, thanks for that. I'd be interested to know a bit more if you don't mind:

1. The ad says install the temp sensor under an engine bolt and set the temp alarm a few degrees higher - where did you mount the sensor?

2. The unit is supposed to warn you of an overheat situation, but how accurate/sensitive is the sensor? LR provide a temp gauge but most already know that it is next to useless due to a lack of accurate reading.

3. Where did you mount the readout unit inside the car?

4. Having operated one for a while, do you feel that it really works? I can't afford to spend my meagre funds on stuff that doesn't deliver.

Cheers in advance
Dave

 

[Urban Panzer]

To be fair, if your that confident the car does not need a fan, then no need to waste money on a sensor imo.

 

[kernowdragon]

Even if you're confident of not needing a fan in normal use a monitor will give you notice of possible impending water pump failure, if your average running temp starts to rise over time.

 

[Urban Panzer]

was not aware water pumps "degrade" in cooling ability, they just fail and leak, and no sensor on the block is going to tell you that unless you fit a coolant level sensor, incidently Haydn sell those to.

My answer was aimed at the block temp sensor discussion, and as I said, if your "worried" about the block temp, leave the fan on to start with, removing it has no real benefit anyway except warm up time in the winter,

On the flip side...... in the summer, if the viscous fan is removed......the aircon fan will probably get a lot more requests for additional cooling as the ECM will sense the temp rise.

Just don't see there are any positives to remove it really except one, and thats when wading in deep water, but I "personally" would rather have the fan there doing its job. Each to their own

 

[listerdiesel]

Have to agree with UP on this one, it's not as though the viscous fan takes that much power, although with our V8 I'd be leery of removing the fan, even in the middle of winter!

With the viscous fan on, and with the heater piped AFTER the LPG vapouriser, we are on gas in less than 1/4 mile and before the temperature gauge has moved, and heat coming through within half a mile or so, depending on conditions.

As we normally have to scrape the windows on a frosty morning, the engine is running while we do it, and we are on gas before the end of our close if the windows are badly frosted, the engine warms up that quickly.

Our old Bedford Midi used to have heat/defrost available pretty quickly, certainly within a mile of leaving home, so the TD5 shouldn't be that bad/slow at warming up.

Peter

 

[thebiglad]

Here's my take on engine cooling by fans of any sort:

Viscous fans turn all the time. Yes I know they don't turn fully engaged all the time, but they do turn. Therefore some level of energy is being used. Also, the engines operated in temperate climates such a northern Europe do not need fan cooling - I've proved this to my own satisfaction on numerous vehicles.

If we are saying that LR believes it needs fan-assistance to protect their engines, then why would they install a device that stops at a time when you might need it most - after a hard run then turn the engine off. No viscous fan !!! The engine temp rises dramatically for the first few mins of turn-off and there is no air cooling, no forced air cooling, nothing. That's just stupid.

Electric fans work only when needed, so their suppliers would have you believe, but they need (and usually do not get!) a quality temp sensor to ensure they turn on when needed. However they do get nicely cacked-up if wading through muddy water, but that goes for any fan really.

I've run TDi 300's all year round in France without fans of any kind. I've towed up to 3 ton loads without fans and have never had any sort of temp-related problems.

Advantages of the no-fan approach:

1. More engine room space;

2. Faster warm-up;

3. Better average mpg. On manual TDi's plus 2mpg and on autos plus 3mpg;

4. Lower engine noise;

5. Slight increase in performance;

I believe that LR, like all the 'proper 4x4' manufacturers, build their machines to operate in extreme climates, off-road and towing max limits.

However, in northern europe most owners don't use their vehicles in that way. They might tow but it's usually on-road, they might offroad but it's usually in temps lower than 30°C. Probably the worst combination most UK drivers will encounter is slow traffic, aircon on and in a hurry!!

As you can probably see, I've tested my theory and found it to work for me. I accept that I have a responsibility to ensure that the cooling system is in god order at all times.

Each owner must decide for themselves whether this approach will work for them. All I would ask is for informed debate rather than a biased rejection of the idea.

 

[martinhollings]

1. The ad says install the temp sensor under an engine bolt and set the temp alarm a few degrees higher - where did you mount the sensor?

2. The unit is supposed to warn you of an overheat situation, but how accurate/sensitive is the sensor? LR provide a temp gauge but most already know that it is next to useless due to a lack of accurate reading.

3. Where did you mount the readout unit inside the car?

4. Having operated one for a while, do you feel that it really works? I can't afford to spend my meagre funds on stuff that doesn't deliver.

Cheers in advance
Dave

i put the sensor under one of the bolts at the side of the rocker cover being under the engine cover its out of the way of any cooling from wind in the engine bay(but not a rocker cover bolt)
i would say as best i can that it is very accurate it runs normal at 87* but in hot weather it goes up to 92* at the time that was my set off point now set at 95* and never gone off
i at first mounted it on top of the dash but found it a bit distracting so i moved it to the side of the fuse box
and i would be fitting one to any car that i get in the future so yes it does work

To be fair, if your that confident the car does not need a fan, then no need to waste money on a sensor imo.

i fitted this when i first got my td5 last year and that was because the 300tdi at work had a split hose and the temp gauge stayed normal end result new head not to bad on a tdi but on a td5 ££££ and how may places have you heard of a td5 leaking coolant that sort of cost for me would mean the car would be off the road for a long time and yes haydn do a coolant loss sensor but there is a post on aulro that some one had one fitted and it did not work
but to be fair if i did not have this fitted then i would not have removed it only using the original temp guage to check all is ok and you engine does need a fan when the weather gets warmer it will be going back on and the fan is kept in the boot and goes back on if i have the trailer on i

100% that it is not a wast of money

 

[listerdiesel]

Each owner must decide for themselves whether this approach will work for them. All I would ask is for informed debate rather than a biased rejection of the idea.

I think you've got what you asked for, but don't expect everyone to agree with you, there are bound to be opposing opinions, there always are.

Peter

 

[thebiglad]

I think you've got what you asked for, but don't expect everyone to agree with you, there are bound to be opposing opinions, there always are.

Peter

Hi Peter, thanks for your comment.

My main objective in commencing this thread is to open up the idea of, imo, improving our Disco's.

I'm not expecting everyone to agree with my views, it would be a boring world if they did!!

You know what's it's like though when you are passionate about anything and find a way of modifying it for the better, you want to share it with others for their benefit.

 

[Jason2]

I am also going to take the vicous fan off our TD5, i would have done it sooner nut I did'nt have the correct spanner.

 

[thebiglad]

I am also going to take the vicous fan off our TD5, i would have done it sooner nut I did'nt have the correct spanner.

In that case Jason you might be interested to know that this afternoon I towed my horse trailer (weight about 900kgs) through slow and hilly country to go and get wood for the fire, without the fan on - with no apparent ill-effects at all. I drove gently to make sure not to over-exerte the motor, but all was as normal.

I filled up the trailer with wood so about 2tons for the return trip - and bottled out and put the fan back on, just in case. The point is that it was in the boot and took 30secs to put on. As soon as I got home I whipped it off again. It came off really easily as I'd copper-greased it before putting it back on.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Jason2]

Why did you bottle out Dave? If you had the fan in the boot you could have put it back on if the temp gauge started riseing.

I have towed a gut trailer with a 110 csw before up dale/down dale with out the viscus fan (forgot to put it back on ) with out any problems!

Ps: They reckon viscus fans have to be stored upright so that the silicon goo stuff in them dunt run out.

I'm going to take mine off tomorrow if I get time.

 

[thebiglad]

Why did you bottle out Dave? If you had the fan in the boot you could have put it back on if the temp gauge started riseing.

I have towed a gut trailer with a 110 csw before up dale/down dale with out the viscus fan (forgot to put it back on ) with out any problems!

Ps: They reckon viscus fans have to be stored upright so that the silicon goo stuff in them dunt run out.

I'm going to take mine off tomorrow if I get time.

Hi Jason, I bottled out because this is the best car that I've ever had, and I don't want to stress it.

With the TDi's we have/had they always have their fans off straight away no matter what, sun, towing, off-road etc; but I don't want to muck this one up.

Yeah chicken, I know

 

[Jason2]

Hi Jason, I bottled out because this is the best car that I've ever had, and I don't want to stress it.

With the TDi's we have/had they always have their fans off straight away no matter what, sun, towing, off-road etc; but I don't want to muck this one up.

Yeah chicken, I know

Hi Dave Well yeh! OK I see what you mean! me neither

Took mine off this morning, looks like the last idiot that tried either did'nt have the correct spanner or did'nt know it was a RHD thread as the Viscous nut is well chewed up.

Will let you know how I get on.

 

[thebiglad]

Hi Dave Well yeh! OK I see what you mean! me neither

Took mine off this morning, looks like the last idiot that tried either did'nt have the correct spanner or did'nt know it was a RHD thread as the Viscous nut is well chewed up.

Will let you know how I get on.

Good luck & "Cool Runnings" to all of us then,

Hapy New Year

Dave

 

[Jason2]

Cheers Dave and a Happy New Year to you too and everybod else for that matter

I am going to pick a 109 sw up tomorrow so we will see Unless I bottle too