300tdi rally defender

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JanBoerVoort

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Good day everyone, I hope you are all well. I am interested in knowing if anyone has done a rally in a 300tdi? I would assume if anyone did do it the car would probably be quite modified? I would assume that suspension would need a upgrade and the engine? I read online that you get aftermarket clutches which is supposed to be a bit better. And most importantly you need to carry a lot of spares I suppose because its a Land Rover after all. If someone did this can they please let me know what modifications they did to their vehicle. Thanks a lot.
 
There are plenty of folk around the world who motorsport Land Rovers. The important Q? is what type of rally?

A weekend picnic jaunt ala hamper of the bonnet, a timed road rally, a short-medium stage rally...the East African Rally or World Cup Rally. This will determine what mods, if any, are required.
 
Jan Spoeg said:
Good day everyone, I hope you are all well. I am interested in knowing if anyone has done a rally in a 300tdi? I would assume if anyone did do it the car would probably be quite modified? I would assume that suspension would need a upgrade and the engine? I read online that you get aftermarket clutches which is supposed to be a bit better. And most importantly you need to carry a lot of spares I suppose because its a Land Rover after all. If someone did this can they please let me know what modifications they did to their vehicle. Thanks a lot.
Click to expand...
I think you need to be more specific about this "Rally".

I have been in Classic Rallies, although not with a Defender, and also driven in some Trials years ago.

There are also Modified Trials, Comp Safaris, and the sort of rallying you see on the TV sometimes with high powered Subarus, Audis, etc. I don't know much about those, but don't remember seeing any Defenders in them.

If you post some details about the event you intend to enter, you may get more help.
 
v8250 said:
There are plenty of folk around the world who motorsport Land Rovers. The important Q? is what type of rally?

A weekend picnic jaunt ala hamper of the bonnet, a timed road rally, a short-medium stage rally...the East African Rally or World Cup Rally. This will determine what mods, if any, are required.
Click to expand...
Turboman said:
I think you need to be more specific about this "Rally".

I have been in Classic Rallies, although not with a Defender, and also driven in some Trials years ago.

There are also Modified Trials, Comp Safaris, and the sort of rallying you see on the TV sometimes with high powered Subarus, Audis, etc. I don't know much about those, but don't remember seeing any Defenders in them.

If you post some details about the event you intend to enter, you may get more help.
Click to expand...
Sorry for the confusion. By the term rally I mean Dakar type stuff.
 
Jan Spoeg said:
Sorry for the confusion. By the term rally I mean Dakar type stuff.
Click to expand...

Can you be more specific, precisely which rallye are you aiming for? There's a huge difference between the modern day balls out Dakar needing $500k+ minimum budget to be competitive and a long distance navigational rallye/Rally Raid across East/West/North Africa, South America.

Even in the Dakar Classic Class I wouldn't go for a 300Tdi as they're just not grunty enough to keep up with minimum stage times. They can be made to go well but I'd imagine they'd struggle with reliability.

If a navigational event a 300Tdi would be fine but you'd need to start with a fresh/complete rebuild as Africa and the Middle East... but especially Africa...can be savage on the vehicles.

If a faster Rally Raid type event a 300Tdi is do-able. Again you need a fresh/complete rebuild + modifications in order to keep up with the Raid. Some Raids have classic classes and unless you're planning on building/buying a very strong Bowler type device you're going to have think very carefully as to your build plan against length of rallye and available budget/cost to ensure you finish. These events are not for the faint hearted...and choose the event wisely as some organisers are sh!t and put lives at very unnecessary risk.

If the Dakar Classic or similar, I'd say the 300Tdi is very eligible and would work in both 90 and 110 form...but be aware of as a minimum, keeping up with the rally's minimum timing schedule, i.e. East African Safari Classic...the Francis Tuthill prep'd historic 911's go like the clappers!

https://competitors.dakar.com/en/dakar-classic/eligible-vehicles

You'd do well to call and talk with Bowler and Gwyn Lewis 4x4, and if possible, other competitors who've already completed the event you'd like to enter.
 
v8250 said:
Can you be more specific, precisely which rallye are you aiming for? There's a huge difference between the modern day balls out Dakar needing $500k+ minimum budget to be competitive and a long distance navigational rallye/Rally Raid across East/West/North Africa, South America.

Even in the Dakar Classic Class I wouldn't go for a 300Tdi as they're just not grunty enough to keep up with minimum stage times. They can be made to go well but I'd imagine they'd struggle with reliability.

If a navigational event a 300Tdi would be fine but you'd need to start with a fresh/complete rebuild as Africa and the Middle East... but especially Africa...can be savage on the vehicles.

If a faster Rally Raid type event a 300Tdi is do-able. Again you need a fresh/complete rebuild + modifications in order to keep up with the Raid. Some Raids have classic classes and unless you're planning on building/buying a very strong Bowler type device you're going to have think very carefully as to your build plan against length of rallye and available budget/cost to ensure you finish. These events are not for the faint hearted...and choose the event wisely as some organisers are sh!t and put lives at very unnecessary risk.

If the Dakar Classic or similar, I'd say the 300Tdi is very eligible and would work in both 90 and 110 form...but be aware of as a minimum, keeping up with the rally's minimum timing schedule, i.e. East African Safari Classic...the Francis Tuthill prep'd historic 911's go like the clappers!

https://competitors.dakar.com/en/dakar-classic/eligible-vehicles

You'd do well to call and talk with Bowler and Gwyn Lewis 4x4, and if possible, other competitors who've already completed the event you'd like to enter.
Click to expand...
Sorry again for the confusion. The rally I will be doing is a 500km rally so it isn't quite the Dakar. When I think of a rally, Dakar is which pops up in my mind. So I thought I say Dakar type stuff but not the Dakar really. So it isn't nearly as hard as the Dakar and the entry fee is also a lot less. So I don't have a vehicle yet because I am still thinking between a 90 or 110. When I get the vehicle I will be sure everything is in tip top shape including the powertrain. I will also need to make modifications to the engine to make it more responsive I would assume and the suspension would probably also need an upgrade. I saw that in the UK there is a team called the Armed Forces Rally Team which also does rallies in defenders. So maybe I'll contact them as well. Thanks.
 
Hi @Jan Spoeg , okay...so a 500km rally is no great shakes/a short outback type blatt over 4-5 days of rough terrain. Both 90 and 100 are equally good with ample space for this type of event.

If travelling over interesting terrain I'd recommend you fit a welded to chassis external roll cage [not a bolt-to-body jobby - nor an internal one as there's little space inside and hitting a roll cage with the body really hurts]. A Land Rover provides zero protection in a roll over...the cab/cockpit has the structural integrity of a crisp packet.

1. Key are brakes, suspension, steering, safety and all mechanical components and 100% all new fluids/thorough service before the start.
2. Next is comfort including lighting for night sections. Seats...don't buy super-duper racing jobbies. Buy for support and long distance comfort with built in head rests. 4-point harness, these are a must as will make sure "planted..." both driver and co-driver location which significantly reduces fatigue. I use Schroth harnesses with anti-submarine 4-point harnesses, they very good and are FIA approved. https://www.schroth.com/en/racing/street-legal/details/show/profi-ii-fe-asm-2/
3. Next underbody protection for steering, diffs, engine and gearbox/trxfr box.
4. Wheel bearings, replace with new Timkin units
5. Gearbox, txfr box, diff breathers - replace all of these and extend to highest point inside of vehicle with a swan neck end
6. Wading plugs - don't forget to fit these if you know you're fording rivers
7. Wading snorkel - see pt6
4. Get organised - not only route planning [Halda/Brantz/GPS/twin compass/twin timing devices/internal lighting], but making sure you have nothing bouncing/rattling around in the car. Everything must be box locked down with easy access, not just the 2x spares and 2x fire extinguishers.

Happy to help with spares/rally list if needed
 
v8250 said:
Hi @Jan Spoeg , okay...so a 500km rally is no great shakes/a short outback type blatt over 4-5 days of rough terrain. Both 90 and 100 are equally good with ample space for this type of event.

If travelling over interesting terrain I'd recommend you fit a welded to chassis external roll cage [not a bolt-to-body jobby - nor an internal one as there's little space inside and hitting a roll cage with the body really hurts]. A Land Rover provides zero protection in a roll over...the cab/cockpit has the structural integrity of a crisp packet.

1. Key are brakes, suspension, steering, safety and all mechanical components and 100% all new fluids/thorough service before the start.
2. Next is comfort including lighting for night sections. Seats...don't buy super-duper racing jobbies. Buy for support and long distance comfort with built in head rests. 4-point harness, these are a must as will make sure "planted..." both driver and co-driver location which significantly reduces fatigue. I use Schroth harnesses with anti-submarine 4-point harnesses, they very good and are FIA approved. https://www.schroth.com/en/racing/street-legal/details/show/profi-ii-fe-asm-2/
3. Next underbody protection for steering, diffs, engine and gearbox/trxfr box.
4. Wheel bearings, replace with new Timkin units
5. Gearbox, txfr box, diff breathers - replace all of these and extend to highest point inside of vehicle with a swan neck end
6. Wading plugs - don't forget to fit these if you know you're fording rivers
7. Wading snorkel - see pt6
4. Get organised - not only route planning [Halda/Brantz/GPS/twin compass/twin timing devices/internal lighting], but making sure you have nothing bouncing/rattling around in the car. Everything must be box locked down with easy access, not just the 2x spares and 2x fire extinguishers.

Happy to help with spares/rally list if needed
Click to expand...

You missed out the mention of a fat wallet ;).

But and the end of the day anything is possible, how competitive you are, or doing it for fun has a big bearing on what you want to do/achieve.
If you do decide we want pics cos :rulez:

We get allsorts of classes come through (sadly not recent, maybe this year, need to check) Lots of LRs in amongst,

www.landyzone.co.uk

Rally Envy

After finding the back box on the 90 hanging between the rear tyre and mud flap, then twisting, hack sawing and lump hammering it free, your natural inclination would be to replace it. Nope, don’t have one on the shelf and it’ll take a couple of weeks to arrive. So, what to do.....? What else...
www.landyzone.co.uk www.landyzone.co.uk

J
 
Just run your motor as standard as you can. Then you won’t break things.

(Range Rover) And yes I used to drive to events(with camping kit if it was 2 day race) race the day & drive back home. These events were speed events and normally 100miles off road.
Oh and during the week this was the daily run around as well.
Build for reliability not speed.

You will find a 110 hard to handle at speed but it’s more comfy. Just to get a motor to race spec will be near £8k(by the time you get cage & seats)

1683654451080.jpeg


This was built from a kit was a 300tdi in an 88”coil chassis.
1683654571942.jpeg
 
Jan Spoeg said:
Thank you for all your advice. Did any of you modify a Defender yourself for rallying?
Click to expand...
No. I never modify anything much, apart from better tyres, and fitting axle lockers.

The standard vehicle is designed to be pretty capable on and off road.

Never been in a rally either, but I should think driving all day on forestry tracks. loaded up with work gear and people is much the same in the loads it imposes on the vehicle.
 
Hicap phill said:
Just run your motor as standard as you can. Then you won’t break things.

(Range Rover) And yes I used to drive to events(with camping kit if it was 2 day race) race the day & drive back home. These events were speed events and normally 100miles off road.
Oh and during the week this was the daily run around as well.
Build for reliability not speed.

You will find a 110 hard to handle at speed but it’s more comfy. Just to get a motor to race spec will be near £8k(by the time you get cage & seats)

View attachment 287931

This was built from a kit was a 300tdi in an 88”coil chassis.
View attachment 287932
Click to expand...
Turboman said:
No. I never modify anything much, apart from better tyres, and fitting axle lockers.

The standard vehicle is designed to be pretty capable on and off road.

Never been in a rally either, but I should think driving all day on forestry tracks. loaded up with work gear and people is much the same in the loads it imposes on the vehicle.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the advice. I would assume it would not hurt the engine reliability if I fit a different intercooler and turbo on? And maybe exhaust to get it to sound a bit more aggressive too. Snorkel and wading kit like @v8250 mentioned. As for a clutch I saw that you get aftermarket clutches that is supposed to be a bit better. I would assume it all depends on the budget. So in general the 90 would handle a bit better at speed? I don't know if stock suspension would make the cut though? Maybe putting in dual shock absorbers would help? Thanks again.
 
Turboman said:
No. I never modify anything much, apart from better tyres, and fitting axle lockers.

The standard vehicle is designed to be pretty capable on and off road.

Never been in a rally either, but I should think driving all day on forestry tracks. loaded up with work gear and people is much the same in the loads it imposes on the vehicle.
Click to expand...
Doesn't the defender come standard with diff lock? Thanks again.
 
Jan Spoeg said:
Thank you for the advice. I would assume it would not hurt the engine reliability if I fit a different intercooler and turbo on? And maybe exhaust to get it to sound a bit more aggressive too. Snorkel and wading kit like @v8250 mentioned. As for a clutch I saw that you get aftermarket clutches that is supposed to be a bit better. I would assume it all depends on the budget. So in general the 90 would handle a bit better at speed? I don't know if stock suspension would make the cut though? Maybe putting in dual shock absorbers would help? Thanks again.
Click to expand...
You can get a double shock system which bolts to the axles. But you may need to beef up the spring tops as you are holding 2 shocks on 4 bolts. (We had 4 shocks on each axle & would remove some if ground was smooth) also it limits the amount of spares needed if you can use front shocks on the rear

Don’t wind out the fuel pump,produces more heat for the intercooler to work.(we ran large charge/water fed intercooler on a separate rad & pump)
Just make sure the turbo spools up at low speed

As for removal of part of exhaust,there are noise restrictions on MSA events must be below 100Db
 
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