1994 Defender 200 TDI - Q Plate.

[RV6A]

That’s a scarey thought.... although I’d think the VAT/tax liability would be with the original importer, who’s now deceased. I don’t think even the VAT could extract cash from him from beyond the grave...

But then again, we all know how our friendly HMRC and VAT officials can make it fit their reasoning.

 

[Shippers]

That’s a scarey thought.... although I’d think the VAT/tax liability would be with the original importer, who’s now deceased. I don’t think even the VAT could extract cash from him from beyond the grave...

But then again, we all know how our friendly HMRC and VAT officials can make it fit their reasoning.

The tax liability is with the vehicle I would have thought you can keep it Q plate as it is now but to change to age related you would be agreeing to say it was built in uk exported to Jersey no vat paid on it at the time and now you want to reg it in uk on its original export details which don't appear to exist but if they did the vehicle would be liable for tax I think.

 

[Shippers]

@RV6A by the way welcome to the Landy loonyzone...
As for what your going through my thoughts are gleaned from here in Portugal...
Met through my business a customer who became a Saturday outside farmers market bar pal after around 3yrs he mentioned he had a 101 iv'e had many Landys but that was the one. the one .for me...a year later he mentioned he needed to sell it a Portugese guy wanted to buy it but didn't want to sell to him as he just want'd to make a quick buck...went home spoke to Lucy my partner she said will he sell it to us...he did...all of a sudden out of the woodwork every man and their dog would have bought it at the same price as I paid for it exept his son-in-law who thought it should have been given to his teenage sons to trash round their land.

So basicly I bought a 1975 LR left under a tree for 15yrs with parts missing on an export certificate that was expired and not in my name but all paperwork was correct re numbers 18 months later just need for reg office to allocate reg number so I can put it on the road all thanks to my agent Lilliana without her contacts in the departments in reality bungs the only one she couldn't"sort" was Fiaal the main dealer but they came up trumps with a type approval,she reduced my bill from around 15,000€ to 1,300€ including her fee...sorry for being long winded but it makes me more sure about the history of your vehicles reason for being a Q plate...the reason my agent got my bill reduced is because it's now going to be reg as commercial cause it's only got 2 seats won't get age related plate though...

 

[frog hopper]

My 200Tdi 90 didn't have a vin stamped on the chassis, tester told me to resubmit it in a weeks time, stamped it up myself with a set of punches borrowed from my local garage. It passed !!
I was a bit concerned about it all to be honest, was it a ringer? etc. After a fair bit of searching I found that it is not unknown for one or two to have slipped through without being stamped, a friday afternoon car perhaps?
Anyway to get back to your problem, and I really don't know if this is at all possible, is there a chance you could buy an age related "private" plate and fit that?

 

[lynall]

Ref the vat, on boats the liability is always with the boat, hence the adverts always say vat paid and they have to prove it.

Sometimes it really is better to let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[Shippers]

My 200Tdi 90 didn't have a vin stamped on the chassis, tester told me to resubmit it in a weeks time, stamped it up myself with a set of punches borrowed from my local garage. It passed !!
I was a bit concerned about it all to be honest, was it a ringer? etc. After a fair bit of searching I found that it is not unknown for one or two to have slipped through without being stamped, a friday afternoon car perhaps?
Anyway to get back to your problem, and I really don't know if this is at all possible, is there a chance you could buy an age related "private" plate and fit that?

No you can't if you could there would be no point of having a Q plate in the first place.

 

[RV6A]

Once on a Q its always a Q unless additional information as to the age of the vehicle is provided to the DVLA to prove its age.

So an age related or any type of 'private' plate cannot be assigned to a Q Plated vehicle.

Reading through masses of posts, information and DVLA guidelines on Q plates, it is all about the questionable history to the vehicle and generally for vehicles that originate from within the UK.

It doesn't take into account the occasional unusual circumstances such as this one - an import.

I think Shippers has perhaps solved this one..... By obliterating its VIN and not having the Jersey number plate nothing could be identified and as we all know they don't cross reference engine numbers, therefore only a Q plate could be issued.

The original importer obviously didn't see the need to challenge the issue of a Q plate, or he would have had to pay VAT/duty at a higher rate.

So it looks like it has then 'imported' to the UK mainland and heavy duty/tax and VAT avoided.

 

[Disco1BFG]

First, I'm not disputing what Shippers is saying at all - many moons ago i worked in Portugal, and the "rules" were, er bizarre I was chuffed to bits to see he had sorted his "issues" with the governbent .... perhaps OP, you need someone like Shippers used to assist...

It doesn't take into account the occasional unusual circumstances such as this one - an import.

It is not an import, it is a re-import, having been made here. This could be a complex issue in itself. IIRC any VAT due would be on the value of the vehicle at the time of it's re-importation, and possibly at a reduced rate due to the second hand nature of the thing - but there are myriad exemptions which can be a minefield to navigate..... (ask me how I know )

There are companies who specialise in both importing vehicles, AND re-importing vehicles - you could do worse than ask them for some info..

Alternatively, if you have decent LEI with an advice line, you could ask them - you might get lucky and speak to someone who will put some time in to assist you resolving the weirdness in the situation.... ( or not )

Sometimes it really is better to let sleeping dogs lie.

Amen. Which is why I would try and clarify your legal position in terms of potential VAT liability ... and possibly keep very quiet

 

[Shippers]

@Disco if it came into uk with no details it would not be a re-import it would be classed the same as a kit car hence Q plate same as if it was built up from parts,it can only be a re-import if it had vin and chassis number recorded on it's export certificate or Jersey log book.

 

[RV6A]

As it cam from the Channel Islands as an 'import' and although it is a bizarre term and use of language.... Disco is correct.

It is a re-import by virtue of the fact it was manufactured in the UK, sent overseas for 'export' and then brought back into the UK. Hence the term re-import. Sounds a bit odd but true.

 

[Disco1BFG]

@Disco if it came into uk with no details it would not be a re-import it would be classed the same as a kit car hence Q plate same as if it was built up from parts,it can only be a re-import if it had vin and chassis number recorded on it's export certificate or Jersey log book.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with you.... IIRC LR didn't make these things anywhere else at the time, so ... it is either 1) a re-import, or 2) it's a bitsa ....

1) So, as I see it, at this point, either worthing office CBA'd to sort the paperwork properly ( and if they knew they'd all be out of a job soon .... ) or the paperwork wasn't available from Jersey... You make a very valid point about the export certificate too - and perhaps the OP can chase this up with the relevant folk ?

2) If it is, then it's probably right it has a Q plate - not all disadvantage IMHO.

You were quite lucky I think to find someone who could assist sorting this out, and my principal suggestion here would be that the OP gets some assistance too.

My import/export and sometimes re-import stuff has always been done with the assistance of an agent and/or the local board of trade who do this sort of stuff all the time.

I took an "item" to Sweden once, on a carnet, and had to get the embassy involved both for the long winded crazy paperwork, and then at the border crossing where some jobs worth was adamant the item and the thing described on the paperwork were not one and the same - it all got very tedious and I'm not saying what we did next time .....

Hence my comment that the OP should be careful

 

[Shippers]

As it cam from the Channel Islands as an 'import' and although it is a bizarre term and use of language.... Disco is correct.

Technically I agree with Disco it is a re-import given the obvious fact that it was built in uk and exported to channel islands..here's the but though remove chassis number and vin plate chuck away the log book take off reg plates and turn up at DVLA and what have you got an import,ringer,stolen,bitsa seems they assumed bitsa and registered it.

 

[RV6A]

Fortunately for me in the information supplied of copies of microfilm records held by the DVLA, it clearly refers to and confirms that import / re-import documentation and bill of sale / purchase were provided to Worcester DVLA Office. The actual forms are not with the bundle sent by DVLA Swansea as.... they cant locate them!

Worcester DVLA Office obviously accepted the application and vehicle as a re-import and examined it. If it didn't have a VIN they couldn't identify and haven't pushed further with identifying it's date of manufacture. Lazy, incompetent, complicit? Who knows after 18 years... They've then issued a new SABT VIN and a 'Q' plate.

Personally I'm inclined to accept Shippers view that the chap who brought it from Jersey didn't want to pay very much in VAT/Tax/Duty and that's the only reason I can see for obliterating the old SAL VIN.

Having said that I'm certainly not naive to the fact that shall we say; over the years there has been some very ingenious ways of re-inventing vehicles!

As mentioned earlier it is absolutely straight and original and has not been tampered with. Everyone who has worked on it, or seen it (and there has been some very competent and knowledgable people seen it) cannot understand the reason for the Q plate.

Disco... I think you may be correct in saying I should be careful! Let sleeping dogs..... as they say!

Just a short thank you for everyone's input.

 

[Hicap phill]

If they have removed the jersey ID they can't prove vat to be paid at a later date

Back to dvla for a check

 

[RV6A]

I’d be quite happy to look through all the records at Gaydon myself if I could find its original VIN.

There can’t have been many Coniston Green Defenders on the RHD Export line at Solihull at that time.

The 11L engine number either side should narrow it down.

Any help with that one?

 

[Shippers]

If they have removed the jersey ID they can't prove vat to be paid at a later date

Back to dvla for a check

That's why they gave it a Q plate...I can't understand why o.p has details of import and purchase etc as they would have been used by DVLA to charge vat as a NOVA form would have been filled in the time of arrival in uk...can only assume vehicle was brought in to UK on Jersey plate then details removed later and the details referee to by o.p are from when it turned up at DVLA as a non reg vehicle..

 

[RV6A]

It was brought to the mainland pre NOVA s maybe the rules were slightly different and there wouldn’t have been the same level of computer input in 2001.

 

[Hicap phill]

I never had any trouble changing French/German discoverys to UK plates. Turned up with any paperwork,new mot/inspections
They checked the chassis number & uk plate info arrived few days later.

@dieseldog69 did you do anything special for yours to import with paperwork?

 

[Shippers]

I never had any trouble changing French/German discoverys to UK plates. Turned up with any paperwork,new mot/inspections
They checked the chassis number & uk plate info arrived few days later.

@dieseldog69 did you do anything special for yours to import with paperwork?

They would have had the relevent vat paid on them in their original country so straight forward to reg... Channel Islands are vat free that's why this vehicle has been imported this waybI reckon to avoid paying the back tax...

 

[Shippers]

It was brought to the mainland pre NOVA s maybe the rules were slightly different and there wouldn’t have been the same level of computer input in 2001.

True but to import it you would have to show log book in your name on arrival to customs pay tax then DVLA would reg it there's no way round not paying tax if you present vehicle with documents...