Pull up a seat. this could take a while. FL1 newbie questions

[Alex1000]

Okay, been on here and the internet generally, and bought an FL1 a month ago. Usual issues, Windows Widners, no Internal Light, Speakers not working etc.

Mechanically, (touch wood) has no mechanical issues, Drives all present, VCU working, so fingers crossed.

But I do have a few questions about them generally, that I haven't been able to get a clear definitive answer or answers created more questions.

1) The FL1 ratio/Wheels issues. (you know, the one were all 4 wheels HAVE to be the exact same, or the world ends, the ice caps melt, and Trump gets re-elected. Was this sorted early 2000nds? and if so what year. Or is it still there........

2) Are there 2 different models of rear diffs for the FL1 model, and if so when did they change and what are the pros and cons for new /older models.

3) Whats the weird rib things on doors and wings, I see on some 3 doors up for sale. Aftermarket or original factory option. Are they any good or just for aesthetics?

Can they be taken of without damage to bodywork/leaving holes

4) Is there a FL related thread or web site, that gives a listed history of the FL , with what year things got changed.

5) |Some 3 doors only have 2 rear seats, and a center console. Is this common or rare, and factory or aftermarket?

6) is there any cure for the Boot well toll box area, to stop damp/condensation? (I'm thinking spraying an insulation on below the FL, or rigging heat shield between the exhaust box and the Floor. Have dried mine out and its damp again, and no evidence of water getting in anywhere.

7) Is the 3 Doors Drive shafts and VCU the same or different lengths to the 5 doors? (i'm assuming different lengths, but just asking to be certain.)

8) do the rear seats between 3 and 5 door models interchange, or are they different sizes and fittings?

9) Do ANY FL1 models have seats that go up and down (annoying as hell to get a comfortable ride position....

10) Can the FL2 front seats be interchanged with the FL1? And if so do they go up and down?

11) What models had the FBH, or is that a factory option only?

Did say this would take a while

You know what they say, ask and look like a newbie, or remain silent and remain a newbie forever.

Thanks in advance to anyone going to answer these newbie questions.

 

[doriz]

@Hippo

 

[Nodge68]

Q1. I don't understand the question.

Q2. All the same ratio, although later diffs have larger bearings.

Q3. That's the factory/ dealer fit body kit. Just cosmetic. It's clipped and bonded to the vehicle.

Q4. I don't know.

Q5. It was an option when purchasing, depending on the new owners requirements.

Q6. Some remain dry, some refuse to dry. It's pot luck.

Q7. All rear propshafts are the same. The front propshafts vary, depending on engine fitted. All 4 cylinder engine VCUs are the same. The V6 VCU is unique to that engine.

Q8. No.

Q9. No. Hight is fixed.

Q10. No. The FL2 is a completely different vehicle.

Q11. Most early TD4s seemed to get the FBH. But later models only had it if the winter pack was specified. This included a heated front screen.

 

[kermit_rr]

1. This doesn't seem to be a FL specific question but a 4x4 one. Wheel diameters should be the same all round so things like diffs work nicely

 

[Alex1000]

1. This doesn't seem to be a FL specific question but a 4x4 one. Wheel diameters should be the same all round so things like diffs work nicely

Understood, but ive read that specifically the fl had a ratio issue that with slightly mismatched tyres, you could totally knacker vcu, ird, diff. And also read that lr did something to reduce /remove this in later models.

So was wondering specifically for fl was this correct and if fixed in later models when?.

 

[kermit_rr]

Vcu is a viscous coupler, so yes if it's working harder than it should to wheels constantly turning at a different speed then that's not going to do it any favours. Not sure about later models. Sorry

 

[Alibro]

First question back is how do you know the VCU is working? Have you done the one wheel up test?

 

[Alex1000]

Q1. I don't understand the question.


Q7. All rear propshafts are the same. The front propshafts vary, depending on engine fitted. All 4 cylinder engine VCUs are the same. The V6 VCU is unique to that .

So, a TD4 3 door and 5 Door would have same Drives shafts

 

[Alex1000]

First question back is how do you know the VCU is working? Have you done the one wheel up test?

Not yet. But VCU present, driving without any knocks, bangs or grinding. No resistance or problems in full lock either going forward or in reverse. No sign of excess heating up of VCU after long road journey. None of the signs that the VCU has a problem. In snow toda, car drove withou any hickups, and we are in quite hilly areas, that most local cars couldn't get up.

Going to do a 1WU test this weekend, when i check disks, pads and shoes, (Subject to snow), have to work out what equivalent 3ft and weight would be to a 4ft and 5KG.. Have to look that up on google.

 

[Alibro]

So, a TD4 3 door and 5 Door would have same Drives shafts

Some people call the three door a Short WheelBase and the 4 door LWB but they are identical.

Not yet. But VCU present, driving without any knocks, bangs or grinding. No resistance or problems in full lock either going forward or in reverse. No sign of excess heating up of VCU after long road journey. None of the signs that the VCU has a problem. In snow toda, car drove withou any hickups, and we are in quite hilly areas, that most local cars couldn't get up.

Going to do a 1WU test this weekend, when i check disks, pads and shoes, (Subject to snow), have to work out what equivalent 3ft and weight would be to a 4ft and 5KG.. Have to look that up on google.

My first Freelander was just like your are describing but the VCU gave a OWU time of around 3 minutes instead of around 20 seconds.
Don't trust any of the tests you have mentioned as they are mostly inconclusive.
Use a 1.2m bar on the hub nut with a 5kg weight or you can use a wheel stud with a bar shortened to compensate. You need to put it on a stud that allows it to point at the wheel hub nut.
The OWU test is not perfect but it's the best we have.

 

[Alex1000]

Im looking at a wheel nut socket on a 900mm breaker bar. Need to figure out the torque equalent for 5kg at 4ft to what it should be at 3ft. (Heavier). But if vcu was thickening up would mean its under pressire on a road drive.and that should reflect as it heating up. Its supposed to heat up when in 4 wheel drive mode, but not in ordinary driving. But appreciate the 1wu test it a bit more certain.

 

[Nodge68]

but ive read that specifically the fl had a ratio issue that with slightly mismatched tyres, you could totally knacker vcu, ird, diff.

Different tyres will cause the VCU to slip, which it's designed to do, but only by small amounts. If the slip gets to great, then it starts to transfer drive, which isn't good, if you're driving down a road. So having odd tyres must be avoided at all costs. There's thousands of Freelander's that are in scrap yards, simply because the owners fitted the wrong tyres in the wrong places, which destroys the IRD or diff.

And also read that lr did something to reduce /remove this in later models.

Yes. The IRD output ratio was changed. This was very early on in the production run, some time around late 1999 to early 2000.

So was wondering specifically for fl was this correct and if fixed in later models when

The ratio change was to reduce early IRD failure.
The rules about tyres are the same, regardless of year. The later ratio cars do a lot more miles before IRD issue occur.

So, a TD4 3 door and 5 Door would have same Drives shafts

Yes. They are the same wheel base, so all mechanical components are identical.

Going to do a 1WU test this weekend, when i check disks, pads and shoes, (Subject to snow), have to work out what equivalent 3ft and weight would be to a 4ft and 5KG.. Have to look that up on google.

Just extend your 3ft bar to 1.2M and use a 5 litre container full of water for the weight.

The 1.2 M 5 ltr ratio is used to keep test conditions constant. So any deviations are down to VCU slippage, which shows in the time it takes for the wheel to rotate though 45°.

 

[Alex1000]

thanks to all, particularity Nodge68, this has been very helpful. Problem with internet, you can get so many bits of information on one issue, and no two are the same, and some area actually contradictory.

Groups like this, where specific knowledge is concentrated, and tested(flamed) over time, is brilliant.

Bar length, its just that I have a 3ft bar that would be perfect with a wheel nut socket on it. 4 ft bar a lot more work:.. 3ft bar with weight corrected for shorter lengths (there will be a maths equation some where to work that out) would give the same force as a 4ft with 5KG. its the Lb per ft2 were trying to get the same.

Hell, a torque drive bar, set to the correct torque would do the job. If it slipped before turning wheel, then VCU knackered.. But im always looking for the easy way to do a thing

 

[Nodge68]

Bar length, its just that I have a 3ft bar that would be perfect with a wheel nut socket on it. 4 ft bar a lot more work:..

I use a 1.2M length of 30mm 6061 aluminium tube, slipped over my breaker bar, which has a hook on one end, which I hook a 5ltr bottom too. This works perfectly and cost virtually nothing as the 6061 ali tune was cut from a broken washing line.

Hell, a torque drive bar, set to the correct torque would do the job. If it slipped before turning wheel, then VCU knackered..

A torque wrench doesn't work, as the VCU will slip under constant low torque (hence the 5 Kgs at 1.2m, but will begin to stiffen of higher torque is applied.

 

[dfossil]

If you read about the one wheel up test on this forum you will see that a lot of effort and discussion has gone in to standardising this test so that different owners can get a pretty definitive measure of their own VCU - so it's well worth taking the trouble to arrange a similar test - ie a 1.2m bar and a 5kg weight. Yes you can play with a torque wrench (I have too) but to get the best comparative info - do the test as specified - and then you can compare with others. I agree there is lots of noise from people learning their way around these vehicles on these forums that you have to sort through but a little reading and you soon focus on the guys that know their stuff and keep it brief but helpful.
Enjoy your FL1- It's a clever little 4x4

 

[GrumpyGel]

Just to add that the 1.2m is from the hub nut - you are talking of using a wheel nut (presumably because you don't have a 32mm socket. Therefore shorten the bar by the appropriate amount and ensure the bar is in alignment with the hub nut - ie the bar pokes out along the diameter of the wheel.

Plenty of Freelanders have had reconditioned IRDs over the years - if there was a ratio change, you can't guarantee you have what was originally on your car. In many ways it doesn't matter - look after your VCU and tyres and the car will be OK. A tyre pressure monitoring system TPMS is a wise investment.

 

[Alex1000]

Going back to this. If IRD id crrently maling no noises or issues and drive shafts in place and all seems to be working okay. Is that an indicator that ird is reasonably okay?.

VCU might have an issue when i test it, but as long as ird is okay, i can feal with vcu easily enough.

 

[Nodge68]

Is that an indicator that ird is reasonably okay?.

Giving the IRD an oil change is the best way to check it's condition. It'll be overdue anyway, as nobody ever seems to think about changing it. It's supposed to have an oil change at 75K mile intervals. Draining the oil will tell you the condition of the bearings, simply by the colour of the oil. Dark brown is good, or at least not bad. Oil that looks like it's full of silvery metallic particles is bad, as that's the bearings and gears breaking down.

 

[Alex1000]

Thanks for that. Another to do on the list.

 

[Nodge68]

Thanks for that. Another to do on the list.

You'll need 2 ltrs of 75w90 fully synthetic gear oil.