P38A Gearbox Fault

[Endeleus]

Got the P38 back on my driveway, after being parked up elsewhere for well over a year. (Edit: it's a 1999 2.5 DSE)

Currently showing Gearbox Fault on the dash, and no drive in any gear. I don't have diagnostics to hand, so will be looking at the obvious contenders first before considering a gearbox refurb.

I checked the ATF level briefly today before I trailered it home, and level seemed fine. I cycled though the gears, and they all showed the correctly selected gear in the dash, but no drive in any of them. Reverse in the low range felt like it was at biting point, and limped a few inches, but that was the closest I got.

Plan for tomorrow is to replace the filter and flush with some fresh ATF and possibly some Lucas transmission fix, and see how it goes from there.

Other than the gearbox woes, a couple of perished spill-off pipes and a flat battery, everything else seems in decent order despite sitting for so long. Engine sounds healthy enough and all fluid levels are where they should be, but will refresh then all anyway.

Goes without saying, if anyone in Kilmarnock area wants to check if their diagnostics work in someone else's car, they're more than welcome to try mine

 

[Datatek]

Got the P38 back on my driveway, after being parked up elsewhere for well over a year. (Edit: it's a 1999 2.5 DSE)

Currently showing Gearbox Fault on the dash, and no drive in any gear. I don't have diagnostics to hand, so will be looking at the obvious contenders first before considering a gearbox refurb.

I checked the ATF level briefly today before I trailered it home, and level seemed fine. I cycled though the gears, and they all showed the correctly selected gear in the dash, but no drive in any of them. Reverse in the low range felt like it was at biting point, and limped a few inches, but that was the closest I got.

Plan for tomorrow is to replace the filter and flush with some fresh ATF and possibly some Lucas transmission fix, and see how it goes from there.

Other than the gearbox woes, a couple of perished spill-off pipes and a flat battery, everything else seems in decent order despite sitting for so long. Engine sounds healthy enough and all fluid levels are where they should be, but will refresh then all anyway.

Goes without saying, if anyone in Kilmarnock area wants to check if their diagnostics work in someone else's car, they're more than welcome to try mine

Gearbox Fault is a common fault message with a flat battery. Usually disappears with enough volts.

 

[Endeleus]

Thanks Keith,

Funny enough, I just came in to order a new battery now I'm in my own driveway and got a meter across it (4V ) FIngers crossed, will see how I get on tomorrow.

 

[wammers]

Thanks Keith,

Funny enough, I just came in to order a new battery now I'm in my own driveway and got a meter across it (4V ) FIngers crossed, will see how I get on tomorrow.

4 Volts maybe considered a tad on the low side.

 

[Datatek]

Thanks Keith,

Funny enough, I just came in to order a new battery now I'm in my own driveway and got a meter across it (4V ) FIngers crossed, will see how I get on tomorrow.

4 volts?

 

[Endeleus]

Aye.... I've seen some dead batteries in my time, but think 4 volts is a record.

 

[Endeleus]

New battery arrived today, so between that, and replacing all the spill-off pipes, she starts on the first turn

Gearbox woes continue unfortunately - "Gearbox Fault" message has gone from the dash, but still no drive in any gear. Feels like at the biting point at some, but doesn't move.

Draining the fluid now - about 4 - 5 litres out, which seems about right. It still has enough red tint to tell that it started out life as ATF, but it's muddy as hell . Will take the sump and filter off to see how that looks before optimistically putting some fresh ATF in.

 

[Datatek]

New battery arrived today, so between that, and replacing all the spill-off pipes, she starts on the first turn

Gearbox woes continue unfortunately - "Gearbox Fault" message has gone from the dash, but still no drive in any gear. Feels like at the biting point at some, but doesn't move.

Draining the fluid now - about 4 - 5 litres out, which seems about right. It still has enough red tint to tell that it started out life as ATF, but it's muddy as hell . Will take the sump and filter off to see how that looks before optimistically putting some fresh ATF in.

Not in transfer neutral by any chance?

 

[Endeleus]

Not in transfer neutral by any chance?

Depends what you mean, and how I can test it?

Moving the gearstick around results in the selected gear showing in the dash. Moving from high to low range gives the usual beeping for 2 or 3 seconds while it changes over (and I do keep it in neutral until it stops beeping!).

There was a bit of a clunk shifting from high to low range a couple of times. The only hint of drive so far has been reverse in low range, but only limped a few inches.

 

[Datatek]

Depends what you mean, and how I can test it?

Moving the gearstick around results in the selected gear showing in the dash. Moving from high to low range gives the usual beeping for 2 or 3 seconds while it changes over (and I do keep it in neutral until it stops beeping!).

There was a bit of a clunk shifting from high to low range a couple of times. The only hint of drive so far has been reverse in low range, but only limped a few inches.

Sounds like you have eliminated that possibility.

 

[Grrrrrr]

New battery arrived today, so between that, and replacing all the spill-off pipes, she starts on the first turn

Gearbox woes continue unfortunately - "Gearbox Fault" message has gone from the dash, but still no drive in any gear. Feels like at the biting point at some, but doesn't move.

Draining the fluid now - about 4 - 5 litres out, which seems about right. It still has enough red tint to tell that it started out life as ATF, but it's muddy as hell . Will take the sump and filter off to see how that looks before optimistically putting some fresh ATF in.

It will take a couple of exchanges to flush all the old **** out. Some Lucas Transmission fix might be worth a try as well. New filter, obviously.

 

[Endeleus]

Well progress of sorts...
Replaced the filter, put in some fresh ATF and a bottle of Lucas wonderstuff... I've got good reverse in low range now, and can get forward in low range although it feels and sounds like riding the clutch. There was some unhealthy-looking sludge in the sump, but I've seen furrier magnets in my time.
High range is starting to feel like it bites, but no drive. Changing from high to low still makes a clunking noise, but not as bad as yesterday.
Will have another change or two of ATF / Lucas over the next few days and see how it goes.

On the bright side, if I can at least move it around the yard, it's not blocking me from doing other things.

 

[jamesmartin]

Well progress of sorts...
Replaced the filter, put in some fresh ATF and a bottle of Lucas wonderstuff... I've got good reverse in low range now, and can get forward in low range although it feels and sounds like riding the clutch. There was some unhealthy-looking sludge in the sump, but I've seen furrier magnets in my time.
High range is starting to feel like it bites, but no drive. Changing from high to low still makes a clunking noise, but not as bad as yesterday.
Will have another change or two of ATF / Lucas over the next few days and see how it goes.

On the bright side, if I can at least move it around the yard, it's not blocking me from doing other things.

no point in putting anything in that box besides a few clutch plates

 

[Endeleus]

no point in putting anything in that box besides a few clutch plates

I was pretty much assuming the next stop for that box will be Ashcroft to be honest.

 

[tanis8472]

Sticking solenoids ?

 

[jamesmartin]

Sticking solenoids ?

burnt clutch plates,thats whats the black mess in the sump is

 

[Endeleus]

burnt clutch plates,thats whats the black mess in the sump is

Ah, that makes sense, thanks.
I'd been promising myself for about a year before it was parked up that I'd have the gearbox overhauled, as I'd started to notice a bit of slip from 1st to 2nd occasionally.

Unfortunately we moved house beginning of last year, and I've got about a quarter of the garage and parking space as I used to. Means I don't have space for immovable projects at the moment, so may just swap out with a refurb box.

 

[Datatek]

Cheapest way is to swap out with a good second hand ZF4HP24 leaving you with a stronger box.

 

[Endeleus]

Cheapest way is to swap out with a good second hand ZF4HP24 leaving you with a stronger box.

I was just weighing up my options:

1. Replace with a refurb box
2. Replace with a second hand box
3. Refurb existing box

What's the difference between the 22 and 24? I seem to recall the bell housing is shorter, or something needs changed to fit?

At the moment, I think my preference is to get a second hand box in, so I can get my own box up on the bench and replace the friction rings at my leisure. I'd be happier getting my old box back in at some point, as I know its entire 19 year history, and friction rings giving up at 175,000 miles is the first issue it's ever had.

 

[Datatek]

I was just weighing up my options:

1. Replace with a refurb box
2. Replace with a second hand box
3. Refurb existing box

What's the difference between the 22 and 24? I seem to recall the bell housing is shorter, or something needs changed to fit?

At the moment, I think my preference is to get a second hand box in, so I can get my own box up on the bench and replace the friction rings at my leisure. I'd be happier getting my old box back in at some point, as I know its entire 19 year history, and friction rings giving up at 175,000 miles is the first issue it's ever had.

The HP24 is from the 4.6V8, you need to fit your existing bell housing and maybe the oil pump. Otherwise it's a straight swap and is a good bit stronger. Your box will have a spacer between the box and the transfer box, early HP24 boxes are longer and do not need the spacer, later versions are physically identical to the HP22 and do need the spacer. I hope to be collecting an HP24 for mine later this year.
I wonder how often you have changed the ATF in all those years?