tarphenry
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it needs diagnostics to better find the problem, it will give readouts that will show what is wrong. only way forward I feel
Range Rover P38 diesel injector pump problem
- Thread starter Lachleaves1
- Start date
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tarphenry
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Yes your nanocom will read the engine information and tell you what is wrong . you will need to ask Wammers what the readings should be for specific items then check these against your readings. I suspect that wammers will be as usual correct and a new pump is looking likely . but if you ask i am sure that the info you need will be provided. then you can check, give the readings on here and the knowledgeable ones will be here to help you make sense of it.
Ok.
I am new to these vehicles, hence all the questions.
I will try and hook up the nanocom later and read what i can.
I earlier read the needle lift sensor and CPS. And both rpm's looked correct.
Guess i have to check the modulation and the different settings for fuel quantity.
Is it possible to refurbish the old pump?
Great to have such knowledgeable people around.
I am new to these vehicles, hence all the questions.
I will try and hook up the nanocom later and read what i can.
I earlier read the needle lift sensor and CPS. And both rpm's looked correct.
Guess i have to check the modulation and the different settings for fuel quantity.
Is it possible to refurbish the old pump?
Great to have such knowledgeable people around.
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- 18,963
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- Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
How many miles has your engine (FIP) done? If about 120k miles then the FIP is probably tired.
If you have a Nanocom get the engine running and up to temperature and then go into EDC. Look at the timing modulation at idle. It should be around 50%. Yours is likely around 90%. If it drifts much higher than that then it goes out of its expected range and the engine thinks something has gone seriously wrong (like a snapped timing chain) and will kill the fuel / power.
In the technical section of this Range Rover forum there is a test for the lift pump. Worth doing that as a duff lift pump with a worn FIP may cause your issues. Replacing the lift-pump is a lot cheaper and may keep you going a while yet. Other cheaper things to check (although I very much doubt it'll help but they're cheap!) is the MAP pipe that goes from the fuel filter to the inlet manifold and also the leak off pipes.
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- 18,963
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- Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
If you have an SD card in your Nanocom then you can record a live trace. If you record 3 or 4 minutes and then post up the CSV file (actually semi-colon like the Germans use but never mind) then we can all take a look. Probably won't be able to help but we'll have a good laugh, eh?
Hi again.
Finaly got a couple of minutes to look at the P38 today.
Tried to log the values on a SD card to see where the problems was.
I logged 5 files, but I am not able to open them in the nanocom csv Viewer. Fault Message says "The file contains invalid characters" and "The file contains no record".
When I open them in Excel i can see that there is data on the file.
Any idea to what is wrong? Uploaded the file as well so it is possible to look at.
At this test the fault didn't show up. Was just idling until warm engine. Guess i'll have to run it under some load to find the fault, but then I want my recordings to work properly.
Timing modlulation looked fine on idle at least: was just around 50%
Finaly got a couple of minutes to look at the P38 today.
Tried to log the values on a SD card to see where the problems was.
I logged 5 files, but I am not able to open them in the nanocom csv Viewer. Fault Message says "The file contains invalid characters" and "The file contains no record".
When I open them in Excel i can see that there is data on the file.
Any idea to what is wrong? Uploaded the file as well so it is possible to look at.
At this test the fault didn't show up. Was just idling until warm engine. Guess i'll have to run it under some load to find the fault, but then I want my recordings to work properly.
Timing modlulation looked fine on idle at least: was just around 50%
- Posts
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- Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
Wouldn't worry about using the Nanocom viewer. Excel is better.
I've put your results in the zipped Excel file below together with a top level comparison to mine.
Your values are way more variable than mine (although your timing modulation is pretty good in that it is around 50%). The injector set point and actual should be within 0.5 degrees of each other but your keep dropping out. The fuel is all over the place too.
What this means in practice I don't know! Need someone like @wammers for that.
If it were me I'd start with the lift-pump check from the Technical section. It is easy and free to do. Plus the in-tank pump is relatively cheap.
My set point is always 1.8 degrees. Yours is all over the place. Not sure why that would be but when it changes that's when your timing modulation goes out and the fuelling suffers. This was with a fully warm engine, right? The higher values would indicate a cold engine. Maybe the temperature sensor is acting up? If you go into the General screen I think you can record the temperature inputs?
After that I'd be looking at that injector set point. I'm not sure where it is getting that reading from? Wammers will know. I think it might be the needle sensor in the number 4 injector. Has the #4 injector been touched or got wet? If that #4 sensor is damaged then that will cause issues. I cannot remember if the car will run on default values with it unplugged? Maybe someone on here like @tomcat59alan would know if it is worth a try.
Given past history I'm leaning towards #4 injector but I think we need a guru's view. Hope that helps a little.
I've put your results in the zipped Excel file below together with a top level comparison to mine.
Your values are way more variable than mine (although your timing modulation is pretty good in that it is around 50%). The injector set point and actual should be within 0.5 degrees of each other but your keep dropping out. The fuel is all over the place too.
What this means in practice I don't know! Need someone like @wammers for that.
If it were me I'd start with the lift-pump check from the Technical section. It is easy and free to do. Plus the in-tank pump is relatively cheap.
My set point is always 1.8 degrees. Yours is all over the place. Not sure why that would be but when it changes that's when your timing modulation goes out and the fuelling suffers. This was with a fully warm engine, right? The higher values would indicate a cold engine. Maybe the temperature sensor is acting up? If you go into the General screen I think you can record the temperature inputs?
After that I'd be looking at that injector set point. I'm not sure where it is getting that reading from? Wammers will know. I think it might be the needle sensor in the number 4 injector. Has the #4 injector been touched or got wet? If that #4 sensor is damaged then that will cause issues. I cannot remember if the car will run on default values with it unplugged? Maybe someone on here like @tomcat59alan would know if it is worth a try.
Given past history I'm leaning towards #4 injector but I think we need a guru's view. Hope that helps a little.
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Simply put, when the throttle pedal is pressed the ECU receives a signal and positions the quantity servo to service that rpm/power request. The feedback pot then sends a signal telling the ECU the requested position has been achieved. If the feedback pot sends the wrong signal or the wiper loses contact with the track, sending no signal, the ECU drops the emergency stop solenoid to stop the engine. Fuel flow fault means the pot is telling the ECU that there is a different servo position than that requested. If that continues you will need to get the pump refurbished.
Ok great. thanks for the info.
I will try to do a new test, hopefully today. Shovel away the snow so i can drive the car until it is fully warm. and do some logging then.
Is it possible to log parameters from several menus at the same time?
It would be great to see the crank speed at the same time for instance.
Petter
I will try to do a new test, hopefully today. Shovel away the snow so i can drive the car until it is fully warm. and do some logging then.
Is it possible to log parameters from several menus at the same time?
It would be great to see the crank speed at the same time for instance.
Petter
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All you are interested in are the recorded faults. You can record parameters until you are blue in the face, they will tell you nothing until the fault occurs whilst recording. Quantity servo faults are pretty common. Like when the MIL lamp flashes as you take your foot off the throttle or come out of cruise control. A refurbed pump is the only answer. Stalling when coming to an halt or when very low speed steering inputs are made, can be helped by increasing the idle RPM to 800 or so. But eventually a pump refurb is needed there is no other avenue to go down.
Mulcaster1
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@wammers - I have had a water issue on the fender ( 2.4 transit engine ) when I removed the head I found the gasket with a split it - have you herd of this before? I am assuming that I am the only one to have removed this head -120k miles - but the gasket is a metal shim type and I cannot see how this split has happened but can confirm it was ok up until a total failure occurred. Changing the gasket is no issue - just looking to see if I can find out why the failure occurred. And help would be welcome
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Don't have a clue. Where on the gasket did the split occur?
Mulcaster1
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it split at the back near a water port and a oil return journal - I will try and post a picture
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Ok may get a better idea from a photo. But more likely than not expansion/contraction fatigue.
Mulcaster1
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blue beasty
Leaks an prone to bits dropping off
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A new thread with a relevant title would be more useful so others can search for issues and answers in the future.
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That is from the cylinder fire ring to the oil return. Pretty normal fail. Very hot linked to comparatively cool. Have seen it dozens of times. You need a new glove by the way.
Last edited:
Mulcaster1
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cheers - sending the head for a pressure test and a minor skim so start the rebuild later next week. these have been the most useless gloves ever! when I told the wife to buy some latex- I did have a different product in mind!That is from the cylinder fire ring to the oil return. Pretty normal fail. Very hot linked to comparatively cool. Have seen it dozens of times. You need a new glove by the way.
Mulcaster1
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yes sorry - it is posted in the fender section already - just thought I would tap in to wammers skill and get his opinion
