What does this EGR kit achieve?

[vilguy]

So when are you going to start learning about what you are talking about again?

Oh Ive given up on the keyfob until i get home......

just in case you was wondering like.

 

[wammers]

At what point did i say it was throttled by air? The inlet is not throttled in any way. Its open. (hence why if you remove the airbox off a diesel its loud as chuff) MAF has EVERYTHING to do with the amount of fuel injected on a modern diesel.

Fortunately, some of us do know basic engineering, thats why i get paid so much

I cant be arsed arguing with you wammers. Ive got a keyfob to break.

Nonsense. Diesel engines are throttled by fuel NOT by air. Reduce the fuel and you reduce the engine RPM. Simple as that. Yes i used to get paid a lot as well for knowing what i know, which is considerably more than basic engineering.

 

[wammers]

Time to go all Thor on your ass bitches...

"
Mass flow sensor
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


A mass airflow sensor
A mass (air) flow sensor (MAF) is used to find out the mass flowrate of air entering a fuel-injected internal combustion engine.
The air mass information is necessary for the engine control unit (ECU) to balance and deliver the correct fuel mass to the engine. Air changes its density as it expands and contracts with temperature and pressure. In automotive applications, air density varies with the ambient temperature, altitude and the use of forced induction, which means that mass flow sensors are more appropriate than volumetric flow sensors for determining the quantity of intake air in each cylinder. (See stoichiometry and ideal gas law.)
There are two common types of mass airflow sensors in use on automotive engines. These are the vane meter and the hot wire. Neither design employs technology that measures air mass directly. However, with additional sensors and inputs, an engine's ECU can determine the mass flowrate of intake air.
Both approaches are used almost exclusively on electronic fuel injection (EFI) engines. Both sensor designs output a 0.0–5.0 volt or a pulse-width modulation (PWM) signal that is proportional to the air mass flow rate, and both sensors have an intake air temperature (IAT) sensor incorporated into their housings for most post OBDII vehicles. Vehicles prior to 1996 could have MAF without an IAT. An example is 1994 Infiniti Q45.
When a MAF sensor is used in conjunction with an oxygen sensor, the engine's air/fuel ratio can be controlled very accurately. The MAF sensor provides the open-loop controller predicted air flow information (the measured air flow) to the ECU, and the oxygen sensor provides closed-loop feedback in order to make minor corrections to the predicted air mass. Also see MAP sensor.
"

Descriptive of petrol engine operation. But sadly for you does not apply to diesels.

 

[vilguy]

Nonsense. Diesel engines are throttled by fuel NOT by air. Reduce the fuel and you reduce the engine RPM. Simple as that.

Im not saying they are controlled by air fooks sake, but the ecu needs to know how much fuel to inject. Its pretty basic!

Yes i used to get paid a lot as well for knowing what i know, which is considerably more than basic engineering.

not from what im reading.

 

[vilguy]

Descriptive of petrol engine operation. But sadly for you does not apply to diesels.

A MAF is a MAF, it does the same job in both petrol and diesel engines. It measures air flow and temp. The MAF is NOT used to measure how much exhaust gases are injected into the inlet manifold. Otherwise it would have to be mounted between the EGR and the inlet. Which it isnt.

Why do you have to be so blind to your arrogance.

 

[wammers]

Im not saying they are controlled by air fooks sake, but the ecu needs to know how much fuel to inject. Its pretty basic!



not from what im reading.

One last time see if you can take this in. Diesels are throttled by fuel. For any given throttle demand the ECU measures the engine RPM and knows from throttle demand the requested RPM. It then increases fuel until that throttle request RPM, subject to load is reached and maintains that fuel amount to maintain engine RPM. If fuel is reduced for any reason the RPM WILL fall. Diesels always have excess air in the cylinder, at idle the fuel/air ratio is well over 100 to 1. Unlike a petrol engine where the MAF measures air flow and the ECU maintains a fuel air mixture ratio of around 14 to 1 subject to that airflow reading. MAFs on diesels DO NOT DO THIS.

 

[wammers]

A MAF is a MAF, it does the same job in both petrol and diesel engines. It measures air flow and temp. The MAF is NOT used to measure how much exhaust gases are injected into the inlet manifold. Otherwise it would have to be mounted between the EGR and the inlet. Which it isnt.

Why do you have to be so blind to your arrogance.

Think you are mistaking arrogance for knowledge. You really don't have a bloody clue do you?

 

[vilguy]

Think you are mistaking arrogance for knowledge. You really don't have a bloody clue do you?

Fortunately I do.

If you rely on the rpm to control fuel injected alone yourll have vast quanta ties of wasted fuel. The maf gives the ecu data on what's happening along with various other sensors for it to adjust the injection cycle to optimise it.

That or you can go your way and have a great big black cloud left behind you.

I have to deal with people like you at sites where they are adamant about something, and they know best , theyve been doing this for years and they know EXACTLY how it works blah blah blah. Most of the time though they dont. However I'm always open to other people's opinions and ideas. I'm very often wrong and happy to admit it.

It's just that in this instance I'm not

Has the penny dropped. Let me explain this for you as your obviously not getting it... and all the other cliché drivel that comes out of your bigoted mouth. You might know a thing or two about somethings, but you don't know everything. Far far far from it

Now this isnt the place to have an argument. Anything goes it is not.

Im out of here.

 

[wammers]

Fortunately I do.

If you rely on the rpm to control fuel injected alone yourll have vast quanta ties of wasted fuel. The maf gives the ecu data on what's happening along with various other sensors for it to adjust the injection cycle to optimise it.

That or you can go your way and have a great big black cloud left behind you.

I have to deal with people like you at sites where they are adamant about something and that what I propose is impossible. Then when I implement it and it all works they soon shut up. However I'm always open to other people's influences too. I'm very often wrong and happy to admit it.

It's just that in this instance I'm not

Has the penny dropped. Let me explain this for you as your obviously not getting it... and all the other cliché drivel that comes out of your bigoted mouth. You might know a thing or two about somethings, but you don't know everything. Far far far from it

Is this a wind up you cannot be that stupid? Diesels are throttled by fuel, no other means. More fuel the engine revs up less fuel the RPM drops. The volume of fuel injected to give the RPM required or requested does change subject to fuel temp, inlet air temp, engine temperature and load. But that is NOT controlled by airflow through the MAF sensor. If you want to learn something listen, other than that you are talking bollocks.

 

[vilguy]

Is this a wind up you cannot be that stupid? Diesels are throttled by fuel, no other means. More fuel the engine revs up less fuel the RPM drops. The volume of fuel injected to give the RPM required or requested does change subject to fuel temp, inlet air temp, engine temperature and load. But that is NOT controlled by airflow through the MAF sensor. If you want to learn something listen, other than that you are talking bollocks.

Im not saying it is!!!! Ive written that several times now! For gods sake learn to understand the english language. You complain enough about people of foriegn nationalities not speaking it, how bloody ironic.

Ill spell it out for you in simple language.

MAF (bit of hot wire)... cooled by air... pppffffffff like that see? electricity used to heat it... (Think of that as magic contained within a pipe) and the ecu (Thats a wizard called dumbledor) knows how much of this magic is blown off the wire by the bbbrrrr cold air.

Right got that?

By knowing how much "magic" is used, the wizard can then tell how much his wands (or injectors) need to squirt a quantity of fairy dust (or fuel!)


God writing it like this is hard work....

Right i have not said it is CONTROLLED (understand the meaning of the word before you comment back) it is influenced by the MAF along with several other factors (that you have finally admitted) which the ECU interpolates into a fuel map.

Without the MAF, the engine will go into a closed loop cycle and be ****, instead of open loop where its taking in data from various sensors and adjusting the injection to suit.

I realise you are from where you are and thus I should probably talk quite slowly and use less syllables but come on, by your description of yourself, you pretty much know everything so you must be right eh?


And anyway, if your so right, then throw your MAF away out of your diesel because by your account you dont need it.

 

[wammers]

Im not saying it is!!!! Ive written that several times now! For gods sake learn to understand the english language. You complain enough about people of foriegn nationalities not speaking it, how bloody ironic.

Ill spell it out for you in simple language.

MAF (bit of hot wire)... cooled by air... pppffffffff like that see? electricity used to heat it... (Think of that as magic contained within a pipe) and the ecu (Thats a wizard called dumbledor) knows how much of this magic is blown off the wire by the bbbrrrr cold air.

Right got that?

By knowing how much "magic" is used, the wizard can then tell how much his wands (or injectors) need to squirt a quantity of fairy dust (or fuel!)


God writing it like this is hard work....

Right i have not said it is CONTROLLED (understand the meaning of the word before you comment back) it is influenced by the MAF along with several other factors (that you have finally admitted) which the ECU interpolates into a fuel map.

Without the MAF, the engine will go into a closed loop cycle and be ****, instead of open loop where its taking in data from various sensors and adjusting the injection to suit.

I realise you are from where you are and thus I should probably talk quite slowly and use less syllables but come on, by your description of yourself, you pretty much know everything so you must be right eh?


And anyway, if your so right, then throw your MAF away out of your diesel because by your account you dont need it.

Total bollocks. I explained why the MAF is fitted to a diesel with EGR. You do not seem to understand that. Very modern ones with electronic EGR feeback even refuse to let the engine run or at least impose limp mode if there is a fault. But that is about emissions NOT fueling. Ok mr basic engineer how does a non EGR non MAF diesel engine with a mechanical injection pump control fueling?

 

[blue beasty]

I think everyone can agree there is a lot of bollocks on this thread.

 

[james6546]

Im not saying it is!!!! Ive written that several times now! For gods sake learn to understand the english language. You complain enough about people of foriegn nationalities not speaking it, how bloody ironic.

Ill spell it out for you in simple language.

MAF (bit of hot wire)... cooled by air... pppffffffff like that see? electricity used to heat it... (Think of that as magic contained within a pipe) and the ecu (Thats a wizard called dumbledor) knows how much of this magic is blown off the wire by the bbbrrrr cold air.

Right got that?

By knowing how much "magic" is used, the wizard can then tell how much his wands (or injectors) need to squirt a quantity of fairy dust (or fuel!)


God writing it like this is hard work....

Right i have not said it is CONTROLLED (understand the meaning of the word before you comment back) it is influenced by the MAF along with several other factors (that you have finally admitted) which the ECU interpolates into a fuel map.

Without the MAF, the engine will go into a closed loop cycle and be ****, instead of open loop where its taking in data from various sensors and adjusting the injection to suit.

I realise you are from where you are and thus I should probably talk quite slowly and use less syllables but come on, by your description of yourself, you pretty much know everything so you must be right eh?


And anyway, if your so right, then throw your MAF away out of your diesel because by your account you dont need it.

Now THAT is my level of explanation

I think everyone can agree there is a lot of bollocks on this thread.

I miss the emoticon of the guy eating popcorn

I liked the explanation, could actually understand it when vilguy described it

 

[blue beasty]

Now THAT is my level of explanation

I miss the emoticon of the guy eating popcorn

I liked the explanation, could actually understand it when vilguy described it

I thought it was rubbish....









I always get wizards and warlocks mixed up

 

[Turboman]

I thought it was rubbish....









I always get wizards and warlocks mixed up

Thought it was a load of old warlocks all along!

Where are they smilies, then? Boxing one would spring to mind here!

 

[vilguy]

[QUOTE="wammers, post: 3560050,
Ok mr basic engineer how does a non EGR non MAF diesel engine with a mechanical injection pump control fueling?[/QUOTE]

Well actually I am a principal mechanical engineer but its fine... ill gloss over that...Ive never designed an engine or injection pump. Dont really want too. Engines are not my bag, I tend to stick to defence and nuclear decommisioning but just for you wammers i will give it a go. They are essentially just a pump (of sorts).


The REALLYYYYYYYY early ones, (back when you were born) used compressed air to atomise the fuel and inject this through a valve as an aerosol.

Then you have your older diesels (like before I was born!) which used inline pumps, 1 per cylinder with a plunger controlling the injection of fuel so on the backward stroke it would draw fuel into the pump, and then on the forward stroke inject it into the cylinder. Ive never worked on one but would be interested too.

Then you have your more up to date one that we all know and love, your distributor type pump. Like the 200 / 300 TDI pump. Which is just one pump which rotates to allow the pressurised fuel to each cylinders injector. On smaller engines like what we have in the TDI we have a single injection cylinder. Its driven from an cam plate and this injects fuel to the injectors from something called a rotatry distribution valve (never seen one but hey ho whatever). I believe the VE pump can vary the timing relative to the crank speed and also allow the volume of the injection cylinder to be altered to suit the turbo etc. Theres a governer to stop it revving its tits off and lunching itself. Thats about my limit on knowledge of the basic injection pump. Im not a diesel expert.

Then you got your fancy dancy electronic direct injection lark with electronic whiz gadgets etc.



Now wammers dear, can you explain to me how the eurofighter typhoons decoy defence unit gearbox works. You can do it in lord of the rings speak if that helps. Because I know exactly how it works.
If its a help you could tell me how the HMWHS on Q.E CVF works? , how to homogenously mix radioactive floculant without any risk to the environment and know exactly what your pumping for long term storage whilst ensuring no organics get in there, can you design me a storage vessel (5000 of them actually) to store nuclear fuel for the next 10,000 years in the new GDF and it must not degrade in any way whilst it constantly pressurises itself with hydrogen and must not be damaged in anyway after a 30 mtr drop onto a solid concrete surface, or else risk a criticality event in the lake district (oh how the lefties would love that one!).....No? Well the latter was choofin hard as no one actually knows what stainless steel will do after 10,000+ years.....

Look we all know certain things and are good at various things, none of us know everything and just because you are derogitory toward me doesnt make your point right. Lets just agree to disagree reet?

 

[vilguy]

I thought it was rubbish....


I always get wizards and warlocks mixed up

Have a look up my wizards sleeve

 

[Turboman]

The REALLYYYYYYYY early ones, (back when you were born) used compressed air to atomise the fuel and inject this through a valve as an aerosol.

Then you have your older diesels (like before I was born!) which used inline pumps, 1 per cylinder with a plunger controlling the injection of fuel so on the backward stroke it would draw fuel into the pump, and then on the forward stroke inject it into the cylinder. Ive never worked on one but would be interested too.

Then you have your more up to date one that we all know and love, your distributor type pump. Like the 200 / 300 TDI pump. Which is just one pump which rotates to allow the pressurised fuel to each cylinders injector. On smaller engines like what we have in the TDI we have a single injection cylinder. Its driven from an cam plate and this injects fuel to the injectors from something called a rotatry distribution valve (never seen one but hey ho whatever). I believe the VE pump can vary the timing relative to the crank speed and also allow the volume of the injection cylinder to be altered to suit the turbo etc. Theres a governer to stop it revving its tits off and lunching itself. Thats about my limit on knowledge of the basic injection pump. Im not a diesel expert.

Then you got your fancy dancy electronic direct injection lark with electronic whiz gadgets etc.

That's actually quite good! Potted history of the injection pump, one of your best ever posts,IMO

As a passing point, inline pumps haven't been made for a while, but many are still operational, I have worked on one recently. They are much more robust and hardwearing than rotary.
And a shame you didn't find a few words for the CAV DPA and DPS which are fitted to loads of classic British machinery.
Other than that, impressive, although I imagine wammers was already familiar with it.

 

[wammers]

[QUOTE="wammers, post: 3560050,
Ok mr basic engineer how does a non EGR non MAF diesel engine with a mechanical injection pump control fueling?

Well actually I am a principal mechanical engineer but its fine... ill gloss over that...Ive never designed an engine or injection pump. Dont really want too. Engines are not my bag, I tend to stick to defence and nuclear decommisioning but just for you wammers i will give it a go. They are essentially just a pump (of sorts).


The REALLYYYYYYYY early ones, (back when you were born) used compressed air to atomise the fuel and inject this through a valve as an aerosol.

Then you have your older diesels (like before I was born!) which used inline pumps, 1 per cylinder with a plunger controlling the injection of fuel so on the backward stroke it would draw fuel into the pump, and then on the forward stroke inject it into the cylinder. Ive never worked on one but would be interested too.

Then you have your more up to date one that we all know and love, your distributor type pump. Like the 200 / 300 TDI pump. Which is just one pump which rotates to allow the pressurised fuel to each cylinders injector. On smaller engines like what we have in the TDI we have a single injection cylinder. Its driven from an cam plate and this injects fuel to the injectors from something called a rotatry distribution valve (never seen one but hey ho whatever). I believe the VE pump can vary the timing relative to the crank speed and also allow the volume of the injection cylinder to be altered to suit the turbo etc. Theres a governer to stop it revving its tits off and lunching itself. Thats about my limit on knowledge of the basic injection pump. Im not a diesel expert.

Then you got your fancy dancy electronic direct injection lark with electronic whiz gadgets etc.



Now wammers dear, can you explain to me how the eurofighter typhoons decoy defence unit gearbox works. You can do it in lord of the rings speak if that helps. Because I know exactly how it works.
If its a help you could tell me how the HMWHS on Q.E CVF works? , how to homogenously mix radioactive floculant without any risk to the environment and know exactly what your pumping for long term storage whilst ensuring no organics get in there, can you design me a storage vessel (5000 of them actually) to store nuclear fuel for the next 10,000 years in the new GDF and it must not degrade in any way whilst it constantly pressurises itself with hydrogen and must not be damaged in anyway after a 30 mtr drop onto a solid concrete surface, or else risk a criticality event in the lake district (oh how the lefties would love that one!).....No? Well the latter was choofin hard as no one actually knows what stainless steel will do after 10,000+ years.....

Look we all know certain things and are good at various things, none of us know everything and just because you are derogitory toward me doesnt make your point right. Lets just agree to disagree reet?[/QUOTE]

Jesus you do talk a load of bollocks. The MAF does not adjust fuel to suit the airflow on a diesel engine. Petrol engine yes, diesel engine no. Now go and read up on that before you start to make a bigger fool of yourself than you have already have. You maybe interested to know that the VE mechanical pump and the VE EDC pump use exactly the same rotary final fuel delivery system. It's just that the fuel quantity control collar is electrically controlled on the EDC pump as opposed to mechanically on the standard VE. First diesel engine used coal dust as a fuel but the MAF kept getting clogged up.

 

[vilguy]

That's actually quite good! Potted history of the injection pump, one of your best ever posts,IMO

As a passing point, inline pumps haven't been made for a while, but many are still operational, I have worked on one recently. They are much more robust and hardwearing than rotary.
And a shame you didn't find a few words for the CAV DPA and DPS which are fitted to loads of casic British machinery.
Other than that, impressive, although I imagine wammers was already familiar with it.

um fanks

I dont know huge amounts about diesels so its best not to pretend too. I just know enough to get by.


...

hang on...



oi ya cheeky fecker, you saying the rest of me posts are ****e?