Engine just conked out!

[sierrafery]

100% Td5, so you have the other answers

 

[Landlover99]

100% Td5, so you have the other answers

Many thanks, all.
Well, what a bunch of muppets down at the main dealers. Given the VIN as well! Plus the parts bloke double checked with the service manager as to whether the belt tensioners would need to be changed as well - he said 'no' so he was no better informed than the first bloke!
Right, looks like electricals then! Probably some Lucas part....

 

[markomate2]

Many thanks, all.
Well, what a bunch of muppets down at the main dealers. Given the VIN as well! Plus the parts bloke double checked with the service manager as to whether the belt tensioners would need to be changed as well - he said 'no' so he was no better informed than the first bloke!
Right, looks like electricals then! Probably some Lucas part....

This thread is another example of the sheer amateurish incompetence of the official dealer network! For Gods sake don't take your car anywhere near them.

 

[sierrafery]

a bunch of expensive schmucks

 

[Landlover99]

This thread is another example of the sheer amateurish incompetence of the official dealer network! For Gods sake don't take your car anywhere near them.

I'll avoid it if at all possible!
I have since spoken to them to explain about their mistake and they've told me it could just as easily be a *chain* that's failed, or a sprocket that's come off so they're sticking to their guns on that score, probably to mitigate the embarassment. So now I have to somehow check it isn't a chain issue I've got.
I've thoroughly tested all the fuses and relays I can find and nothing is amiss there, but it still could be an open circuit fault somewhere or a component failure, of course. I really need to find someone with a scanner; that would be helpful!

 

[Landlover99]

I should have stated earlier this engine's done 74k miles, by the way.

 

[Thor1950]

I should have stated earlier this engine's done 74k miles, by the way.

Not many miles. lack of routine maintenance?

 

[Landlover99]

Not many miles. lack of routine maintenance?

Nope, it's been very well looked after.

 

[Shifty1962]

If the chain had broken or a sprocket had come loose then there would have been an almighty bang and it would not turn over as normal. There would be serious damage done.

I'd say 100% its electrical assuming the immobiliser is not doing its thing.

Take it you've tried the simple things like running a temporary jumper cable from the battery neg terminal to engine block and/or ecu main earth point? Made sure both battery connections are clean and tight? Checked the various earth points on engine and chassis are clean and tight? etc.....

Pull each and every relay one at a time, squirt a bit of contact cleaner into each socket then, check each relay for visible signs of burning etc before re-seating them. If you are comfortable you can make up some test leads and check each relay is operating before you put them back in.

Check all fuses and make sure the fuel pump runs (listen) when you turn the ignition on.

The dealer sounds like a clown. Don't let them pump your tyres up let alone get their hands on the engine and electrics.

I'll avoid it if at all possible!
I have since spoken to them to explain about their mistake and they've told me it could just as easily be a *chain* that's failed, or a sprocket that's come off so they're sticking to their guns on that score, probably to mitigate the embarassment. So now I have to somehow check it isn't a chain issue I've got.
I've thoroughly tested all the fuses and relays I can find and nothing is amiss there, but it still could be an open circuit fault somewhere or a component failure, of course. I really need to find someone with a scanner; that would be helpful!

 

[Shifty1962]

How many cylinders does your engine have?
Count the individual branches off the inlet manifold.
If it is 5 then its a TD5 so will have a timing chain.
If you still worried take the cam carrier cover (5 mins) off and you'll see the chain drive to the camshaft.
Even easier take a picture and post it here.

Mine has the BMW engine, if that makes any difference.
I've had a look in the Haynes manual, and from what I can gather, to determine whether it's chain or belt requires removal of the sump, the crankshaft pulley and the cylinder head - which makes no sense to me. I'm guessing I can only tell for *sure* by actual inspection, but the steps involved are a serious PITA, it seems.

 

[Shifty1962]

Ooops you can ignore my last post.
Must stop reading the threads backwards.
From your picture that is 100% a TD5 engine and any LR tech worth talking to would have known that with no further investigation.

 

[Landlover99]

How many cylinders does your engine have?
Count the individual branches off the inlet manifold.
If it is 5 then its a TD5 so will have a timing chain.
If you still worried take the cam carrier cover (5 mins) off and you'll see the chain drive to the camshaft.
Even easier take a picture and post it here.

Mr. Daily you're a genius, sir! Why didn't I think of that??
Actually I know why: it's that massive black plastic shrouding. Makes everything seem alien and makes the works opaque. Why do they do that?

 

[Landlover99]

Ooops you can ignore my last post.
Must stop reading the threads backwards.
From your picture that is 100% a TD5 engine and any LR tech worth talking to would have known that with no further investigation.

No sweat. With your suggestion of removing the rocker cover I shall at last be able to see if the camshafts are turning and the chain(s) are intact and in place.

 

[markomate2]

No sweat. With your suggestion of removing the rocker cover I shall at last be able to see if the camshafts are turning and the chain(s) are intact and in place.

IMO the whole "chain/sprocket broken" story from the idiot dealer is a red herring. Are you in the AA/RAC? (if you own a LR you should be!), see what they say.

Where are you? Are any other forumites near you?

Go back to the first replies, work through the simple fault finding before you get the socket set out!

If you do take the cam cover off be very careful putting it back, its very easy to catch the seal at the back, which will cause an oil leak.

Mark

 

[v8landyman]

At first I thought this thread was a joke when the OP wasn't sure which engine was fitted even though it had TD5 emblazoned on the engine cover. Then when the main LR dealer claimed it had a timing belt which might have snapped, more or less confirmed my suspicion.

BTW the plastic engine cover reduces noise levels a bit, if you look underneath it there is some noise absorbing foam.

 

[Shifty1962]

I took the plastic accoustic covers off mine and eBayed them for beer tokens.
That way I can see any oil leaks if and when they happen instead of the foam soaking it all up and smelling when it gets hot.
Also makes getting to things much easier and quicker.

 

[Landlover99]

I was certain it was a TD5 - at first, but then thought the damn thing had been stolen! I was getting conflicting info from here and elsewhere that indicated it might not be what it claimed to be on engine/chassis numbers and reg. doc. Thank god that's been settled!

 

[Landlover99]

Well, I've done what Shifty wisely suggested. I've lifted the front end of the rocker cover just enough to take a peek underneath. First thing I reassuringly saw was a nice, shiny chain looped over the cam sprocket. But then I remembered what the main dealer service manager had told me: "You want to make sure the crankshaft sprocket hasn't fallen down the sump, as well, mate. It happens."
So I borrowed a neighbour to key the starter over whilst I observed and saw both chain and camshaft spinning merrily over just as they should. Result!
But now the electrical hunt begins....

 

[Landlover99]

I took the plastic accoustic covers off mine and eBayed them for beer tokens.
That way I can see any oil leaks if and when they happen instead of the foam soaking it all up and smelling when it gets hot.
Also makes getting to things much easier and quicker.

Very wise. I hate all that cowling/shrouding you get nowadays.

 

[blue beasty]

I was certain it was a TD5 - at first, but then thought the damn thing had been stolen! I was getting conflicting info from here and elsewhere that indicated it might not be what it claimed to be on engine/chassis numbers and reg. doc. Thank god that's been settled!

Just to confuse matters the 300tdi remained in production in Brazil until '06 and was an option in some countries

But you have a Td5 so please don't take it anywhere near anyone that wants to change your timing belt :doh:

Sounds like one of those annoying little electro-wizzardry gubbins and you need to sacrifice a chicken our Lord Lucas or summink