Broken/snapped glow plug

[ThomasDK]

Looking for some advice. Tried to change glow plugs today (L-series), and the first one I worked on (no 2) eventually snapped in two. I was really gentle with it, but still in snapped. Now it just turns, and I can't get the "inner part" out. Outer part is stocked to hed. Really worried the tip has dropped in the head!

Am I looking at a head removal now? Any advice appreciated... Just before I call the shop...

Thanks (feel kind of stupid...)

 

[Rasher]

Might be worth a try?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee6sfgIhfT4

 

[ThomasDK]

Hi Rasher

Thanks - so i guess it's head off, no room when it's in place for this operation! And even if there where, no way to make sure thread-parts don't fall into the head

 

[GrumpyGel]

That's a bugger. I can only sympathise, not help I'm afraid.

Might the shop have some way of getting the thing out without removing the head? Would save on time, gaskets, bolts, belts etc. Is no2 quite accessible? I think no4 is the one that people don't change because its behind the pump.

 

[ThomasDK]

That's a bugger. I can only sympathise, not help I'm afraid.

Might the shop have some way of getting the thing out without removing the head? Would save on time, gaskets, bolts, belts etc. Is no2 quite accessible? I think no4 is the one that people don't change because its behind the pump.

Thanks for the sympathy, GrumpyGel. Will call them monday, maybe they have some way to do what you (and Rasher) suggest, without removing the head. Yes, no2 is the most accessable of the four, and I would (had I gotten that far) had no chance of removing no4 without removing the pump. Had only planned to do the three of them..

 

[ThomasDK]

Had a talk with the shop - they suggested they could drill out the old plug, expensive stuff!

Think I will try to get the inner-part out, hope nothing has fallen into the head, then soak the outer-part in WD-40, and see if I can get it out with a plier...

 

[DefUnct]

Probably not the ideal solution, but the bodge my Czech mechanic did when my glow plug snapped so the threaded part was out, but the tip still in:

1) put something over the glowplug hole (bit of wood with cloth)
2) start engine

He said usually the pressure in the cylinder pushes the tip out (shouldn't drop in since its tapered?). In my case it was stuck fast, but after a few trips it popped out. So there was no need to take head of or drill or do anything - new plug went in fine and it's been great since then.

 

[ThomasDK]

Probably not the ideal solution, but the bodge my Czech mechanic did when my glow plug snapped so the threaded part was out, but the tip still in:

1) put something over the glowplug hole (bit of wood with cloth)
2) start engine

He said usually the pressure in the cylinder pushes the tip out (shouldn't drop in since its tapered?). In my case it was stuck fast, but after a few trips it popped out. So there was no need to take head of or drill or do anything - new plug went in fine and it's been great since then.

Was thinking something like that - but I have the opposite problem, the tip (inner part) is loose, outer part (threaded part) is solid stocked to the head. If I do something like your suggestion, maybe the inner part will pop out! Don't think the outer part will do anything. Excellent suggestion though!

 

[ThomasDK]

A small update, and a question:

Had a change to look at it quickly today in between work, and just to test if the tip had fallen into the head, i pushed the car a some distance in 4th gear. It didn't stop/lock up (but I did!). Is it then safe to assume what I now think - that nothing is in the head, thad shouldn't be there? Just before i cranck the engine with the starter...

Thanks in advance

 

[teddywood1]

I would have done that as well if I could but you never know if you do decide to drill it keep the drill bit smothered in grease and this should help with all the iron bits of it then get a hoover down the hole and hope for the best that all is sucked up.

 

[GrumpyGel]

If the tip had fallen in, would it not just lie flat on the piston - so manually turning the engine over wouldn't really tell you much?

If you can get the remains of the plug out, should you not be able to see if the tip is missing? Would somewhere have a 'endoscope' type thingie with a minature light and camera on the end of a tube that you could poke in the glow plug hole to see if there's any bits laying on the piston? Not sure if there is such a thing, if garages would have one or if it can be hired!

 

[Nodge68]

Remove the injector and use an endoscope (cheap on ebay) to check inside the cylinder.

 

[ThomasDK]

Thanks guys for the feedback, I'm with you on both the endoscope, and if starting to drill, the use of grease etc to retain drill-bits. Have been looking at the new glow plug, planning to reconstruct the snap on this one tomorrow, to learn how it maybe is broken in the engine.

Had a talk with another shop today, they said the tip wont fall into the head, but i'll have a go at the one on the table tomorrow.

Will keep you posted!

 

[ThomasDK]

A small update:

I have snapped a brand new glow plug (had to help it along by using the saw), so I now have recreated what it look's like in the engine. The snap is just below the outer hex top (see attachment 1). It feels exactly like when I turn the loose bit in the engine, the hex part just turns.

To try to understand the construction of the glow plug, I loosened the small ring-nut above the black rubber insulater, then being able to remove the hex top (see attachment 2). Then tried to pull the electrode (inner part) out (ie OUT of the engine), but no luck. It only goes one way: in (ie INTO the engine).

So, now I'm wondering:

As long as the small ring nut is on, and as long as I cannot remove the hex top, I think the glow plug tip is in place, and not fallen into the head. That should make it possible to drive the car to a shop. Will vibrations maybe break the electrode? I don't know. I also think it's constructed this way, so engine compression won't shoot the electrode out. A little bad for me right now...

About drilling then... This worries me... If I break the sticking-out part of the electrode (inner part) so I can drill, there is a change of me pushing the electrode in (INTO the engine), and then I'm nowhere again (heads off then).

The good part is, that the outer part of the glow plug has plenty of material for making a left turn thread, then using a left turn bolt to maybe get it out. Also makes me think that the 16 year old one in the engine it rusty, I really didn't use force or a large wrench when it broke.

Sorry for the long post, any input on this is much appreciated

 

[ThomasDK]

A small update, part II:

I tried something different on my "speciment" - tightening the ring nut, so the electrode would break/snap - it did, and it broke down in the tip (see attachment 1). This tightens the electrode to the outer part, and leaves half an inch for making a thread in the outer part WITHOUT drilling in the electrode (see attachment 2). Should it be possible then? Being VERY careful with the drill? This way no drill bits will fall into the head, provided the tip stays in place...

 

[ThomasDK]

Sorry for spamming - a thought...

Would the use of a linkstap (sorry, don't know if it's called that in English, it's a bit for making left turn thread, but designed so you use it to pull / force the element out, that it's screwed into).

See attachment for picture.

 

[Nodge68]

Sorry for spamming - a thought...

Would the use of a linkstap (sorry, don't know if it's called that in English, it's a bit for making left turn thread, but designed so you use it to pull / force the element out, that it's screwed into).

See attachment for picture.

These are known as an "easy out" or a stud extractor. Yes it might work for you. Just be warned. These tool are made out of very hard metal. This makes them brittle. If one should snap in the drilled hole, you'll never drill it out.

 

[GrumpyGel]

Is any of the glow plug "body' above the thread exposed ?

Could you not use a internal reverse thread 'socket'. The Landie dealers used one like this to remove my locking wheel nuts...

EMERGENCY Locking Wheel Nut Remover Tool Kit - 2 PCE - REVERSE TAPERED THREAD | eBay

Alternatively, would it be possible to cut a grove across the top to get a screw driver into. I presume the plug is set quite strongly in the head so would make extraction with a screw driver difficult, but just a thought.

 

[ThomasDK]

These are known as an "easy out" or a stud extractor. Yes it might work for you. Just be warned. These tool are made out of very hard metal. This makes them brittle. If one should snap in the drilled hole, you'll never drill it out.

Thanks Nodge! Nice to get words added to my vocabulary

Yes, you got a point there. That would make everything worse, if it where to happend! Not an easy choice..

 

[ThomasDK]

Is any of the glow plug "body' above the thread exposed ?

Could you not use a internal reverse thread 'socket'. The Landie dealers used one like this to remove my locking wheel nuts...

EMERGENCY Locking Wheel Nut Remover Tool Kit - 2 PCE - REVERSE TAPERED THREAD | eBay

Alternatively, would it be possible to cut a grove across the top to get a screw driver into. I presume the plug is set quite strongly in the head so would make extraction with a screw driver difficult, but just a thought.

Thanks for the link. There isn't much of the body sticking out of the head, and I don't know if theres room for a dremel tool - but you got me thinking. Could use a screwdriver inside, would have to maybe hammer it down, and by doing that risking to loosen the glow plug tip, but could then use a wrench on the screwdriver to force it. Maybe...