L322 BMW V8 - Not another coolant leak ...and an oil leak for fun too

[charliedurrant]

Hi fellow Range Rover owners,

I've had my Range rover for 6 years and it has and will continue to be a good car. I've fitted a few radiators (3 in total) and a new water pump but now I have a coolant leak that I really don't know where it is coming from....

I posted on rangerovers.net as it was a specific 'web site' but haven't had much luck as yet but this coolant leak worries me as it is coming from an unknown location.

Drips appeared on the tubular subframe on the drivers side (UK). I made a terrible video but I think it does make it clear where the drips manifest and a little indication as to the path of the coolant?

The video is a little long - sorry....It also shows an oil leak but I'm pretty sure that is from the valve cover gasket but I can't really see how oil gets to where the video shows.....:mad2:

L322 oil and coolant leak - 4.4 V8 L322 engine - YouTube

Anyone have any thoughts...?

Thanks in advance...

Charlie

p.s. I have cross posted on rangerovers.net as it was RR specific site but have yet to have any replies - don't kill me for coming here second - I just want to get the coolant leak sorted ASAP!

2003 4.4V* M62 - Stalling when decellerating to a stop

 

[Saint.V8]

Hmmmm could be the coolant manifold on the back of the engine.

At the back is an Aluminium manifold that bolts to the back of the engine and is connected to two pipes to the back of the water pump, piped from this are two hoses that go to the heater valves and heater matrix.

It has been known for these hoses to perish, the manifold gasket to split or at worst case the manifold to crack.

Trouble is access is a pig to get at them, take the hevac air intake plenum off from the bulkhead and get a torch poke your head down the back of the engine and take a look.

I would post a diagram, but I am on hols with limited computer access, will see what I can do when I am back at the cottage with my laptop.

Oil gets into the spark plug holes due to perisrhed rocker cover gaskets, this can cause rough running, missfires, lumpy idle and alsorts of other running issues.

Oil can be forced past the gaskets due to crankcase pressure due to PCV valve failure, this is a valve that sits on the back of the intake manifold and regulates crankcase pressure and helps to recycle oil vapour back to the sump for condesning back into oil.

The diaphram in this splits and the crankcase pressure increases and also some intake vacuum is lost.

Check this too.

 

[charliedurrant]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply - appreciated.

Oil leak

There is definitely a leak from the drivers side rocker cover gaskets - this a job for Friday, but I just can't see how oil manages to drip down on to the pipe that runs from the oil separator?

I've just replaced the pcv valve and the 4 pipes attached - the system was open due to perished pipes but for how long I have no idea...

Coolant leak

Oh I do hope it is not a cracked manifold. After spending some time like a beached whale replacing the pcv I got familiar with all the pipe work. None of the pipes to the manifold looked like they were leaking but since it is coolant it is difficult to really see!

The most likely culprit is the manifold, any ideas how I can tell by countering the evaporation? From the video though, I can't see how a manifold leak can drip down to where I see the residue? So confusing...


Charlie

P.s. I have rave

 

[rewmer]

Saints advice as always is sound, but also check the weep holes for the valley pan. Theres a couple of videos on the tube detailing this issue

 

[Saint.V8]

Saints advice as always is sound, but also check the weep holes for the valley pan. Theres a couple of videos on the tube detailing this issue

Forgot the valley gasket...good call....

(thanks for the kind words!!)

 

[charliedurrant]

Thanks to all for the comments.

I've decided to do all the top engine gaskets and coolant pipes. Not really looking forward to it but it will be worth it.

Would you advise an RTV gasket for the valley pan on a new valley pan with gasket. There are conflicting views on the net as the merits of each?

Charlie

 

[charliedurrant]

Hi,

Sorry to bump, did anyone have any comments on whether to get a new valley pan with gasket or make your own using RTV silicone?

I've seen contrasting views for each on the web...


Charlie

 

[charliedurrant]

Hi,

I replaced all the gaskets I could from the island4x4 top gasket set.

Head Gasket Set 4.4 BMW (OEM) LVQ000020 Island 4x4 - Specialists in Land Rover and Range Rover Parts and accessories for all models. UK and worldwide mail order.

And did the valley pan with RTV silicone - I hope if holds. From the BMW forums the messages are mixed as to whether the BMW gasket or RTV is better.

I had a slight leak from the rear water manifold and to boot after replacing everything I found the main leak. My LPG vaporiser (PRINS) has nylon tubes that connect to the coolant system. The connectors have o rings and the joint had failed. I don't regret changing all the gaskets - the inlet throttle gasket was shot and all the manifold gaskets were dry and cracked ( I replaced the thermostat as well ). An experience !!!! And I must say there is more room under the bonnet of my vintage mini than there is under this beast (it is a joy to drive though!).

A word to those replacing their rear water manifold gasket. There is a bracket at the back on the left hand side (facing the engine) that holds the tube that drains oil from the cyclonic separator. I managed to get the bracket behind the water manifold, between the gasket and the engine when putting the manifold back on.

I never noticed it was there when I took the manifold off or when I put the manifold back on! I had to drain the oil, remove the drain tube to get the bracket to fit on the outside of the manifold - what a pain..!

Charlie

p.s. the oil leak was from the rocker covers and the vanos front seals nothing more sinister

 

[GullH]

Hi,

I replaced all the gaskets I could from the island4x4 top gasket set.

Head Gasket Set 4.4 BMW (OEM) LVQ000020 Island 4x4 - Specialists in Land Rover and Range Rover Parts and accessories for all models. UK and worldwide mail order.

And did the valley pan with RTV silicone - I hope if holds. From the BMW forums the messages are mixed as to whether the BMW gasket or RTV is better.

I had a slight leak from the rear water manifold and to boot after replacing everything I found the main leak. My LPG vaporiser (PRINS) has nylon tubes that connect to the coolant system. The connectors have o rings and the joint had failed. I don't regret changing all the gaskets - the inlet throttle gasket was shot and all the manifold gaskets were dry and cracked ( I replaced the thermostat as well ). An experience !!!! And I must say there is more room under the bonnet of my vintage mini than there is under this beast (it is a joy to drive though!).

A word to those replacing their rear water manifold gasket. There is a bracket at the back on the left hand side (facing the engine) that holds the tube that drains oil from the cyclonic separator. I managed to get the bracket behind the water manifold, between the gasket and the engine when putting the manifold back on.

I never noticed it was there when I took the manifold off or when I put the manifold back on! I had to drain the oil, remove the drain tube to get the bracket to fit on the outside of the manifold - what a pain..!

Charlie

p.s. the oil leak was from the rocker covers and the vanos front seals nothing more sinister

Hi buddy,
Have you any pictures if the vapouriser tubes?
I think I have the same problem.....PRINS system and small daily coolant leak....

 

[charliedurrant]

Hi buddy,
Have you any pictures if the vapouriser tubes?
I think I have the same problem.....PRINS system and small daily coolant leak....

Not the greatest picture - this was taken before removal.

The inlet nylon elbow on the vaporiser was shot to bits. Literally crumbled away once I had the unit out.

I bought a refurb kit PRINS VSI Reducer Repair Kit (B,C,D,E) - my reducer had E4 on the label inside a circle.

from LPG Shop - Autogas Parts, Kits, Accessories and Conversion Equipment

I also rang them up to make sure I could disconnect the gas (there is a solenoid on the tank so it is okay to undo the gas pipe to the vaporiser.

Note, if you do have the same situation the new rubber disc looks totally different from what you remove (they were the same diameter). I checked with lpgshop and the deformation was simply due to internal pressures.

Note the rubber disc was not the cause of the leak, it was purely from the inlet elbow.

Charlie

 

[GullH]

Nice one Charlie, very informative. Will have a good nosey at all the bits and see what I can discover regarding the leaking coolant.

Thanks for the pictures.

 

[GullH]

Still baffled as to where this damn coolant leak is coming from.
Leaving the car overnight, over last few nights, and there is always a wet patch on the drive in the morning.
So, left a pan underneath last night and sure enough this morning there was a small amount of pink coolant in the pan.

Took tray off, got underneath and had a good look around.
There are drips forming and coming off the underneath of the front sub frame bar.
The lower hose that is clipped onto the bar seemed to be wet....but upon further inspection, this is actually the hose for the steering fluid.....

I have attached a couple of pictures in the hope that someone can point me in the right direction.....

 

[forthbridge]

Apologies if you've tried this but my duff radiator caused an invisible coolant leak due to it weeping around the rad fins, this was completely masked by the superb action of the viscous fan which sucked any resultant coolant from rad and blew it as a fine mist form over the engine! Basically it had become porous.
One other thing... my coolant reservoir had a hairline crack in it - it was fun trying to locate that one.

 

[GullH]

Thanks for that matey....

Checked around the rad and there are no signs of a leak around there....

And as for the tank having a hairline crack.....well again there are no signs of coolant leak from that area also.....

It seems to be coming more from the front underside of the engine as far as I can tell...

 

[GullH]

Looking at the forum, I have come across an old post that I believe relates to my car....My car is a 2003 model and is LPG converted.....Also the guy I bought it off was called Paul and lives in Balsall Common, Between Solihul & Coventry!

Hello I am fairly new to range rover ownership having owned my 2003 4.4V8 for about 7 months or so.

During that time I have had to replace various hoses in the engine as these have blown off (1 case) or perished. The car has been using coolant and eventually after the replacement hoses the specialist garage said the radiator required replacement.

After the new radiator I then had approx 2 months and 3000 miles of driving with no problems at all when the coolant indicator came on. The water bottle was low and I topped up, since this time the leak has got worse and worse. I now do a daily check to do my 6 mile commute.

I took my car to a local garage this time who conducted a general service and tested the cooling system to which he reported back he thinks the head gasket has gone. He used a test which he claims is 99% accurate whereby you take a sample of water???

I am in 2 minds what to do now as the head gasket on a 4.4V8 is major. My car runs fine and performs fine, there is no white smoke the water is normal and the oil is normal.

I noticed this morning a wet patch on the drive and when tested the water tasted sweet (coolant). This confirms to me the coolant is still leaking from somewhere at the back of the engine? I have had pipes replaced here before.

When I spoke to my local specialist he confirmed he has NEVER had to change a head gasket in a 4.4V8. I am wondering if I am very unlucky or if my diagnosis is incorrect.

I am not sure what to do next so any advise would be greatly appreciated.

So I reckon this problem has been going on for some time now.......
Any advice guys??

 

[forthbridge]

Do you think the undertray is masking the true location of the drip? If so maybe leave some cardboard underneath with the tray removed. If you've got the drip at the front, surely this lets the back pipes off if the car is level? I'm not too up on the block - but have we any core plugs on this one? Regards the pipe on the subframe , check either end as its either running along it or dripping onto it. If this is on the front could it be water pump ? Again if it gets hot you'll probably not find anything on the pump just a drip on cooling.
Hope this helps

 

[GullH]

Do you think the undertray is masking the true location of the drip? If so maybe leave some cardboard underneath with the tray removed. If you've got the drip at the front, surely this lets the back pipes off if the car is level? I'm not too up on the block - but have we any core plugs on this one? Regards the pipe on the subframe , check either end as its either running along it or dripping onto it. If this is on the front could it be water pump ? Again if it gets hot you'll probably not find anything on the pump just a drip on cooling.
Hope this helps

Have actually removed the undertray....that is how I found the drips on the subframe....
Spoke with the PO this evening, but he was not very helpful, saying that after replacing the rad the problem went away....clearly not what he said in his original post!

Anyway.....could it be the valley pan gasket?
If so, how do I determine wether this is the case?
And would this not mean the leak would be further back under the car?

 

[charliedurrant]

I'd get the car up, ideally on 4 ramps to be level (drop the tray, looks like you have done that already), run the engine to temp, turn off the engine and observe with some goggles and a bright torch.

If still nothing then you'll have to observe with the engine running (not pleasant) but the initial reluctance fades as you get more peed off with not finding it.

If it at the front that is good news!

I assume you have ruled out any leak from the vaporiser?

 

[charliedurrant]

Anyway.....could it be the valley pan gasket?

Valley pan manisfests in drips further back drips drips around the bell housing thingy. You can see the place where coolant leaks through a drain hole with a good torch but it is hard to know where to look unless you've had it apart and without pictures.

Charlie

 

[GullH]

I'd get the car up, ideally on 4 ramps to be level (drop the tray, looks like you have done that already), run the engine to temp, turn off the engine and observe with some goggles and a bright torch.

If still nothing then you'll have to observe with the engine running (not pleasant) but the initial reluctance fades as you get more peed off with not finding it.

If it at the front that is good news!

I assume you have ruled out any leak from the vaporiser?

Yep......vaporiser is all good.....by the look of things.

A bit vary about getting under the car when the coolant is hot😰

Why is it 'good news' at the front?