Td5 2003 - Rough running and lack of power

[MikeDISCO]

Hey Gents,

My 2003 TD5 Manual disco started to run really rough and lack of power.

When trying to tow my trailer it was almost impossible to tow uphill was having go down into 2nd and sometimes 1st gear.

Was almost like in limp mode, was unable to rev past 2000 and seemed to be pegged back.

Decided to have a diagnostics tests done at John Craddock's which is my nearest LR specialist.

They Did the test and no faults showing, they took it for a spin and said it was either the fuel pump/sender unit or the injector seals/washers.

So as I had done the sender unit on my old 300tdi I though sod it I buy one and get it fitted once home.

Got home fitted it, did both purge methods, ignition to pos II for 3 minutes with the the pump whirring away, started up after quite a few turns over ran rough for a while and cut out.

Tried the second purge method of 5 pumps on the accelerator pedal wait 15 seconds etc and then it fired after a few turns and ran rough but didnt cut out and I left it running for around 10 minutes and it seemed to be idling nicely.

Decided to take it for a spin and it was noticably better but will still only rev to 3000/3200ish.

Idle still seems a little rough, when reversing with the trailer I have to use allot more revs than before.

Could there still be air in the system? have I done the Purging correctly?

Is there still a chance the injector seals/O rings need renewing?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Mike

 

[thebiglad]

Hey Gents,

My 2003 TD5 Manual disco started to run really rough and lack of power.

When trying to tow my trailer it was almost impossible to tow uphill was having go down into 2nd and sometimes 1st gear.

Was almost like in limp mode, was unable to rev past 2000 and seemed to be pegged back.

Decided to have a diagnostics tests done at John Craddock's which is my nearest LR specialist.

They Did the test and no faults showing, they took it for a spin and said it was either the fuel pump/sender unit or the injector seals/washers.

So as I had done the sender unit on my old 300tdi I though sod it I buy one and get it fitted once home.

Got home fitted it, did both purge methods, ignition to pos II for 3 minutes with the the pump whirring away, started up after quite a few turns over ran rough for a while and cut out.

Tried the second purge method of 5 pumps on the accelerator pedal wait 15 seconds etc and then it fired after a few turns and ran rough but didnt cut out and I left it running for around 10 minutes and it seemed to be idling nicely.

Decided to take it for a spin and it was noticably better but will still only rev to 3000/3200ish.

Idle still seems a little rough, when reversing with the trailer I have to use allot more revs than before.

Could there still be air in the system? have I done the Purging correctly?

Is there still a chance the injector seals/O rings need renewing?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Mike

Hi Mike, when you change the fuel pump it is often necessary to do the 3 mins purge more than twice, so give it another go.

Also there is a small component atached to the passenger side of the engine call a "Wastgate modulator" and this plus it's associated vacuum pipes can cause the symptoms you have.

It's a very easy 2 mins job to replace this part, the cost is aonly about £20 so I would do it just as a matter of routine. At the same time check the air pipes that go to and fro the unit as they will sometimes leak.


Good luck

Dave

 

[MikeDISCO]

Thanks Dave, great help as always.

When I did the 3 minute purge I heard almost like a glugging noise a few times during the 3 minutes, could this indicate some air in the system and another couple of purges will cure this?

I will also pick up a wastegate modulator on my way home.

Thanks again mate

 

[thebiglad]

Thanks Dave, great help as always.

When I did the 3 minute purge I heard almost like a glugging noise a few times during the 3 minutes, could this indicate some air in the system and another couple of purges will cure this?

I will also pick up a wastegate modulator on my way home.

Thanks again mate

It could indicate that it needs further purging, so do it there's nothing to lose - just make sure your battery is in good order !

It could also mean that the bleed valve in one of the pipes next to the filter housing is not working correctly - again a cheap replacement just to make sure.

Dave

PS On the subject of cheap or free things to do to a TD5 engine to get it running correctly here's a few:

1. Check the ECU and it's plugs for an ingress of oil. If any is found, spray both plugs and sockets liberally with Brake and Clutch cleaner aerosol to wash out the oil, upend the ECU onto it's sockets and place on some kitchen towel and allow to drain/dry. This is an indication that the injector look (£30) needs changing.

2. Remove the MAP from the inlet manifold and check for a tar-like substance. If found this has a negative effect on engine running and must be thoroughly cleaned. Out with the Brake and Clutch cleaner again and ensure that the part is clean right down to the bottom of it's recess. Allow to dry and re-install. The black stuff is generated by the EGR system and is a good indicator of whether blocking it off will yield benefits.

3. The MAF is also an important sensor for engine health, treat as the MAP to ensure it functions 100%.

4. Replace the air filter. No matter how clean they look, if they have been used at all they will impair the air-flow. They are so cheap to buy why wouldn't you? Also replace regularly.

 

[MikeDISCO]

Dave your a legend!

Will pick up some brake cleaner spray on the way home too.

Give it a good going over and see how it goes.

Thanks again

 

[thebiglad]

I had the opportunity to learn via this forum over the last 10-12 years all about making our vehicles run their best and it has given me great pleasure to learn and apply this to my own vehicles.

So it pleases me immensely to be able to pass on those experiences for the benefit of others.


Land Rovers are truly great vehicles. Yes, they do need more maintenance than the average car - but they are not the average car are they?

Seat 5 or 7 in all-day comfort; Tow up to 3500kgs; Cross continents; take you to places you would never otherwise dream of going (the Sahara Desert for me)

ALL IN THE ONE VEHICLE - Land Rover the very best 4x4 by far.


Just a bit proud of ours,

Dave

 

[MikeDISCO]

just did the 3 min purge twice and still the same problem.

the engine has lost it's rasp sound and sounds more like an old transit van

 

[thebiglad]

just did the 3 min purge twice and still the same problem.

the engine has lost it's rasp sound and sounds more like an old transit van

OK Mike, well it does sound like an air leak somewhere, but before we go too far down that road, might I suggest that you check the ECU plugs and clean as necessary and the MAP ditto.

Have you fitted the Wastegate Modulator yet?

Then report back...................

Dave

PS IF it is the injector seals, the good news is that you can buy a 'proper' set for about £25 and fit them yourself, straightfarward job.

 

[MikeDISCO]

just picked the modulator and some brake cleaner up.

be home in 30 mins to hopefully make a start.

why you ask about the modulator?

 

[thebiglad]

just picked the modulator and some brake cleaner up.

be home in 30 mins to hopefully make a start.

why you ask about the modulator?

Because I wondered if you'd fitted it yet? It literally is two screws, one electrical connector and 2 or three pull off pipes.

Dave

 

[MikeDISCO]

Right....

Map sensor removed and cleaned - tar/black gunk all over it, refitted and still the same problem.

ECU connector removed, full of oil, cleaned and dried refitted - same problem

Waste gate modulator - replaced, still the same problem

When I start the engine and floor it on first it revs up to 3200/3500 and then won't go any further, loads of white smoke out the back.

Any more advice?

 

[thebiglad]

Right....

Map sensor removed and cleaned - tar/black gunk all over it, refitted and still the same problem.

ECU connector removed, full of oil, cleaned and dried refitted - same problem

Waste gate modulator - replaced, still the same problem

When I start the engine and floor it on first it revs up to 3200/3500 and then won't go any further, loads of white smoke out the back.

Any more advice?

Hi Mike I understand that it won't rev any higher than 3500rpm, but how does it drive?

Also just thought of something - these cars have a known fault where they wear through the fuel pipe(s) between the chassis and the boot floor. If it's bad enough they leak, but if they leak then air gets in as well.

Might be worth running your hand along the pipes that sit on top of the chassis, from the tank to the fuel filter and forward. Also think about that bleed valve that's in one of the fuek pipes where it meets the fuel filter assembly.

Dave

 

[MikeDISCO]

Drives crap, idles erratically and then seems to want to stall when you try and pull off a d sounds like an old transit.

I started the job of replacing the injector seals and only got as far as replacing the injector loom and I realised my viscous fan spanner is at work so I cleaned up and put the rocker cover back on ready for another attempt tomorrow.

With the new harness fitted the problem is still the same.

 

[thebiglad]

I'm running out of things to suggest so here's a few pics that might help:

 

[thebiglad]

Just one thing, have you checked the oil and quality on the dipstick? Does it seem to be rising? Does it seem a bit thin and smells of diesel?

 

[MikeDISCO]

Is there a way on the td5 to rev the engine from in the engine bay? I knew how to do it on my 300tdi but not the td5?

Reason I ask is just had the mrs revving it whilst I was having a look round the engine bay and it seemed like some of the white exhaust smoke was coming out from the right hand side of the engine? What could this be?

Oil level was actually on the low side when I checked it yesterday so I topped it up earlier. No signs of diesel.

You can't give up on me Dave lol

 

[thebiglad]

Is there a way on the td5 to rev the engine from in the engine bay? I knew how to do it on my 300tdi but not the td5?

Reason I ask is just had the mrs revving it whilst I was having a look round the engine bay and it seemed like some of the white exhaust smoke was coming out from the right hand side of the engine? What could this be?

Oil level was actually on the low side when I checked it yesterday so I topped it up earlier. No signs of diesel.

You can't give up on me Dave lol

I am trying for you mate, honestly.


White exhaust smoke often means coolant getting into the exhaust gases - so can you check to see if there is any bubbling coming up through the coolant in the header tank whilst 'her indoors' blips the throttle?

 

[MikeDISCO]

I don't doubt it for a minute mate and can't fault you.

Can't see anything bubble wise in the coolant tank but the level has dropped a little in the past 2 weeks?

Is it worth doing the injector seals/o rings ? Or am I looking at something else?

Thanks

 

[thebiglad]

I'm just thinking about what's on the RHS of the engine.

Inlet manifold, fuel cooler, fuel pressure regulater. (FPR)

You could have a leak on the fuel cooler, this would give whiffs of steam plus it could explain the coolant loss.

Re the FPR, can you see if there are any leaks of fuel ther?

 

[200tdi ayre]

Injector harness