In tank fuel pump testing...

[NikTheGeek]

Hi, I've tested my in tank pump this morning.

If I turn the ignition on and then listen under the car, I can hear a whirring in the tank - at least I assume it is from the tank...! However, if I do the RAVE test of removing relay 12, putting a live from the battery to terminal 5 (the one the other way around from the others) I get silence. Nothing. Nada.

With the fuel line disconnected and put in a measuring jug, I get no fuel with either the proper RAVE test or by just turning the ignition on.

I have removed the correct pipe haven't I?

With the RAVE test, are you supposed to turn the ignition on at any point?

tnx

Nik

 

[Datatek]

I don't know about the RAVE test, Wammers is your man for that, however, if you turn the ignition on with the relay in place and the glowplugs light and you can hear whirring in the tank then you should get fuel out of the pipe. I don't bother to remove the pipe as the connection is prone to break, I just undo the filter.

 

[wammers]

I posted the method the other day for someone. The pump will only run whilst glow lamps are on engine cold. It will never run with ignition with engine hot. Unless you have hot start mod fitted and even then only with glow lamp. If it does not run putting live to terminal five socket with ignition OFF, then pump is not working. Yes correct pipe.

 

[NikTheGeek]

If it does not run putting live to terminal five socket with ignition OFF, then pump is not working. Yes correct pipe.

Well no fuel came out and no whirring noise.

But if its duff, what on earth is the whirring noise I hear from the area of the fuel tank when I turn the ignition on? I suppose I could take relay 12 out and see if I still get the whirring noise. But its odd.... Car starts and runs fine too, even on empty! Its a Jan 2002 model in case anything got changed. Fuse 39 is fine...

Nik

 

[wammers]

Well no fuel came out and no whirring noise.

But if its duff, what on earth is the whirring noise I hear from the area of the fuel tank when I turn the ignition on? I suppose I could take relay 12 out and see if I still get the whirring noise. But its odd.... Car starts and runs fine too, even on empty! Its a Jan 2002 model in case anything got changed. Fuse 39 is fine...

Nik

Fuse 39 does not matter if you feed terminal five with positive from battery. You are putting power direct to pump. Fuse 39 feeds other side of circuit relay closes. Don't know what your noise is but it ain't the fuel pump if you are not getting flow. Or if it is the pump running but not pumping it's knackered. I do not have circuit diagrams for 2002 model. Think there may have been circuit changes in fuse box around 2001 but don't know what they entailed. Maybe someone has a later RAVE. I only have up to MY2000.

 

[Datatek]

If all is working fine re starting etc, why are you looking for trouble?

 

[Grit Valve]

Nick do me a favour get someone to turn over engine and see if fuel comes out then from your pipe .....we've had this discussion before mine only spits fuel when engine is cranking over I belive its a safety device ...ps I always undo mine at the fuel pump no chance of damage to o rings and less messy than taking of fuel filter

 

[NikTheGeek]

Nick do me a favour get someone to turn over engine and see if fuel comes out then from your pipe .....we've had this discussion before mine only spits fuel when engine is cranking over I belive its a safety device ...

Well after studying rave it talks about the in tank pump only coming on until the fuel is at a certain pressure. That must involve a pressure sensor - which, with the pipe disconnected, may cause the in tank pump to not operate. I'll try again tomorrow.

 

[NikTheGeek]

If all is working fine re starting etc, why are you looking for trouble?

Fuel economy. It was one of the suggestions. Even if I don't have a problem and even if my fuel economy is perfectly within limits, I'm still curious why no fuel comes out

Also, its a new car to me (c3-4 weeks now) so I'm servicing and checking everything I can with the help of this forum.

Nik

 

[Grit Valve]

IMO it primes the fuel pump then will not operate until engine is running

 

[Grit Valve]

Fuel economy. It was one of the suggestions. Even if I don't have a problem and even if my fuel economy is perfectly within limits, I'm still curious why no fuel comes out

Also, its a new car to me (c3-4 weeks now) so I'm servicing and checking everything I can with the help of this forum.

Nik

Iv had this argument with them but they won't listen!!!

 

[Grit Valve]

It might be that pre1999 are different but from what I gather turn ignition the in tank primes the system for a short while stops with ignition left on and will only continue to run when engine is running or turning over and Receiving info from the crank position sensor .... But what do I know

 

[wammers]

Nick do me a favour get someone to turn over engine and see if fuel comes out then from your pipe .....we've had this discussion before mine only spits fuel when engine is cranking over I belive its a safety device ...ps I always undo mine at the fuel pump no chance of damage to o rings and less messy than taking of fuel filter

It depends what year your car is. There is no safety device other than the inertia cut off switch. If your car is before MY99. The fuel pump will only run when glow lamps are lit or when engine is running. If your car is MY99 and up fuel pump will run with glow lamps lit. When engine is running and also when engine is being cranked. That is how it is, simple as that. Any other theories are bull****.

 

[Grit Valve]

It depends what year your car is. There is no safety device. If your car is before MY99. The fuel pump will only run when glow lamps are lit or when engine is running. If your car is MY99 and up fuel pump will run with glow lamps lit. When engine is running and also when engine is being cranked. That is how it is, simple as that. Any other theories are bull****.

If so why do you keep telling people to turn ignition on it isn't going to work until its turning over i keep telling you this ... And why in a crash if the engine stalls the pump can't keep ****ing out fuel ....,

 

[Grit Valve]

So nick as you say you turn the key on and nothing ..... Try turning it over down to you now the end your glow plug part is just in conjunction with pump priming system

 

[wammers]

If so why do you keep telling people to turn ignition on it isn't going to work until its turning over i keep telling you this ... And why in a crash if the engine stalls the pump can't keep ****ing out fuel ....,

For christ sake. The ignition must be cycled when cold to keep cycling the glow lamps. This was mentioned by myself in bleeding procedure. Because the pump will only run when the glow lamps are lit. When the engine is running. Or when cranking if your car is MY99 on. You do not have a bloody clue what you are on about. Wire colour coded White/Orange from terminal five on relay 12, goes via pin 1 on inertia cut off sensor, through that and out of pin 3, direct to fuel pump, via a White/Blue coded wire. If you power terminal 5 and inertia switch has not been tripped, pump HAS to run and pump fuel. 180 ml minimum in 10 seconds. If it doesn't run it is knackered or the earth has broken down. If it runs and does not supply fuel or less than 180 ml, it needs changing. That is the standard test of pump function outlined in RAVE. If your car is MY99 or later pump will run when engine is being cranked. See Rev 08/99 in electrical section, were an additional circuit and diode were added from starter relay to power fuel pump whilst cranking. But it should also run as outlined above.

 

[Grit Valve]

You've know rave to be wrong haven't you enough of the technical jargon

The way I see it when cold or unused the glow lamps come on the pump primes the system

When hot no plugs no prime in a logical term no need as it know its hot and been run so no need to prime but to get continuous fuel out of your pipe you need the engine turning over less jargon more Sense

 

[Grit Valve]

Nik serious tho fill up to the brim when the light comes on refill and work it out if you get more than 450 miles from setting the trip your doing well

 

[NikTheGeek]

I'm scared of testing it now! Didn't want to cause a war

I will unclip the pipe tomorrow and crank it and see what happens.

BTW, brim to brim is difficult coz I'm filling from jerry cans full of bio. But I'll sort summut out...

 

[Grit Valve]

An its ok wammers is a very Intelligent man but think of it like this the Ordinary person just wants to know if he's pump works by the time he has turned the ignition got out checked his pipe the lamps have gone off lol

Much easer to tell some one to get an extra person to crank over your engine and see your fuel pump is filling up a small container sod the rates and all that is either works or it doesn't simples