Wheel wobble - steering still there

[Jodsclass]

Well, we have tried everything to sort this steering wobble and nothing has worked. The whole front end has been checked for wear/play. all engine mounts checked, all bushes checked, some replaced and the wobble persists. Been to 2 seperate 4x4 specialists to check for problems and both are stumped. It has gotten worse since fitting 4 new tyres this winter (goodyear wranglers). I've just done a 1700 mile round trip from cornwall to manchester to dundee and back again and the wobble has ****ed me right off. Comes in at 67mph on the clock and gets worse every mph above this speed.

I've had them balanced & rebalanced at hiq in St Austell but still it persists. I'm almost certain it's balancing as since fitting new tyres it has got worse. and you can power through it most of the time, taking the speed to 77mph quickly will make it stop completely, then it will return randomly.

Can anyone recommend a good place to get the front wheels balanced, HiQ maybe doing a poor job with it, and wanted to get some advice on good experiences with different tyre fitters. I can't cope with this for much longer, ruining the motorway driving experience, it is fine under 60, not so much as a vibration.

 

[timfreecom]

hi jodsclass,might be worth putting front wheels on the rear,rears on front and going for a drive.also have you had the drive shaft cv joints checked out? tim.

 

[howardo]

hi jodsclass,might be worth putting front wheels on the rear,rears on front and going for a drive.also have you had the drive shaft cv joints checked out? tim.

always ensure the rear are of greater diameter if not all the same size

 

[Mark2]

Driveshaft

 

[hippolover]

Out of shape tyre. Can happen if the fitter is a bit coarse and breaks a cord or two when popping it on. Even tough it's balanced that's not under a load and if there is a weakness in a side wall it will give you a 'square wheel' effect when it gives every revolution. I've had this twice before but on different cars. Other than what you've been told above how about gear box mounts? Does the gear stick jump (but not out of gear)when you lift off the throttle?

 

[Jodsclass]

Right lets see. Drive shafts etc have all been checked and are fine. All 4 tyres are the same, all new on the same day so diameters should be equal. All tyre pressures match. Have tried fronts on back & backs on front and still have a wobble. In the current configuration the wobble is the smallest out of all they wheel configurations i've tried (currently running the two wheels which have always been on the back on the front).

With regards the gearbox mounts. It's an auto box, but I can't feel any vibration in the stick, and all mounts at the front have been checked for play, I've even had the diff mounts changed and the VCU damper/prop bearings changed to ensure the rest of the drivetrain wasn't causing vibration.

I did watch the tyrefitter do the tyres, plenty of lube on the bead of they tyres and no problems fitting them.

I'm really at a loss now if it's not the balancing.

 

[edge]

Maybe one of your tyres is out of shape /badly constructed .
I fitted a pair of Federal AT's to my freeloader and she pulled to the right as if out of track .We swopped them over left to right and vise -versa and she ran straight again.
On the surface of the tyres there was no fault showing and the balance was spot on
I can't imagine that Goodyears would be faulty but you never know.

 

[caravan doctor]

before i say what im thinkin, what alloy wheels have you got, genuine landy, or aftermarket????

 

[freelance]

if they were allnew together fit the rears on the front etc, alternately try putting the spare on the front in turn and see if wobble disappears, and check your driveshafts and track rod ends.

 

[Jodsclass]

They are the original Land Rover 16" alloys. They are in great condition with not a single ding on them. Balancing weights have always been the adhesive ones and not the rim clips. All wheels have been removed and checked thoroughly for obvious damage, cracks etc.

Track rod ends & drive shafts have been checked, and the tracking has been done twice.

The wobble does change depending on which two tyres are at the front, but there is still a wobble no matter which combination I use, the wobble just caries depending on which 2 wheels I use at the front, but never goes away.

I've heard that the wheels can be balanced on the hubs, anyone know where this can be done? Or if not which wheel balancing/tyrefitting company can anyone recommend?

I fear this problem will be ongoing until we get a Range Rover later this year, but we are keeping the freelander as it's been such a good car (the 4.4 petrol model RR's are so cheap now, and getting cheaper due to the fuel duty/VAT increases so it's a perfect time to buy an early L322)

 

[TD John]

You are getting changes by moving the tyres around and the usual wear suspects have been eliminated - suggests the fault lies with tyres/wheels.
Can you get hold of (borrow) a sixth wheel to run your spare +1 as another set on the front?
If the vibration goes then you may have a case to return the tyres or at least know what the fix is?

 

[hippolover]

The two tyres I have had go out of shape were Goodyear albeit it was a few years ago. Looking at them face on so to speak the tread was kind of S shaped at one point.

 

[Jodsclass]

I'll see what I can do about sourcing a sixth tyre and trying that out. I'm going to take it in to somewhere else and have them balance the wheels. I'll be able to see if they are out of balance if the new tyre place start adding weights. I've been advised that the balancing machine at Hiq may have been miscalibrated, or the lad doing it may have placed the weights in the wrong place. Also I've been advised to take it to somewhere that can balance with the wheel nuts in place on the machine, instead of clamping through the centre of the wheel as the locking wheel nut can sometimes cause a mismatch in balance. I've put a small dot on each wheel by the hole with the locking wheel nut so they can be matched up. Very annoying.

The wobble isn't slight or a vibration, it's like a rocking motion on the steering wheel back and forth about an inch each way from the steering wheel being centered. It seems to do it with every rotation of the wheel/tyre which suggests it must be a wheel/tyre problem.

 

[Hippo]

They normally have to put the weights on, and the machine tells them where. Then spin it up again before the machine passes. Watch out for this. Also watch the wheel rim for movement when spinning = dented etc.

 

[Jodsclass]

Thanks Hippo. The wheels look absolutely perfect, not a mark on them at all inside & out, not even any signs of curbing. they may have had a knock from a pot hole or something which has slightly distorted them, but nothing visible so I'll watch the guy with the balancing machine like a hawk. Hopefully can get this sorted this week before driving back upto Manchester.

 

[Fake Elvis]

When you say a rocking motion is it the same at all speeds? i would have thought that this would rule out the balance of the wheels as this would normally be worse at a certain speed, also to have all of your wheels out of balance is pretty weird if if the tyre fitter did one wrong chances are he wouldn't have done all of them wrong... unless he really didn't know what he was doing... ask one of the fitters to go out in your car before and after to see if he can determine the cause.

good luck

 

[Jodsclass]

There is no wobble at all under 67MPH, every MPH over that the wobble intensifies, pushing 80MPH it disappears again, but obviously I can't travel at that speed.

 

[Hippo]

When you say wobble, it it the steering wheel that wobbles, the whole car that wobbles, or just the front end of the car that wobbles? Is it more of a vibration, or a swaying quickly?

I would have thought the tyre fitter could have removed the tyres, and run the wheel only on the machine, to see if it passes. When having a tyre fitted recently one chap was struggling, so his mate took over. It seemed they put weights on if it was outside of a certain tollerence. The weight brought it back into tollerence, but perhaps not dead on perfect. It did pass afterwards, so all was ok.

 

[Jodsclass]

The car doesn't vibrate at all, it is just the steering wheel rocking back and forth about an inch each way. Like a fast pendulum back and forth

 

[hippolover]

That does look like an out of shape tyre or them not set properly on the rim. Look carefully around the wheel rim and on the tyre there is what is called a fitting line. The distance between it and the actual rim should be the same around the entire circumference. It can go on squint and even balance up but the minute you put weight on (I mean the weight of the car on the road) it highlights the problem.