Discovery 1 axle lockers and fording

[vindicator]

Hello there,
I've had have a few Discos in the last few years and a Range Rover p38.
Up until recently I had though the diff lock was a all axle diff lock, since the terrain I was going through did not prove me wrong, until now, as I was climbing this quarter mile huge steep gravel hill, spinning tires just a few feet below the top of it and nearly falling off of it. (lol)
So my question is, I have heard that some people somehow use some axle lockers that are operated from the outside of the wheels manually - is that an option? I talked to a guy who knows quite a bit about this and he said the only way to do this is to completely change both the axles, which would cost more than the car. So any ideas how to lock all "3" locks so all the wheels would spin at all times dependently?
And another thing I had on my mind is fording. I have gone through some deep water (4 feet), but now I want to ford a larger river that is about 80feet wide and up to 5"6' deep. Do you think I will need to have the car completely flood? The last time I went into 4 feet, the accessory/serpentine belt started to screech - perhaps because of the fan ? So would you have any recommendation in terms of going through a river this deep? And yes I do realize there is current...
Thanks a lot
Check out my videos at [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUDlpG-MVo"]YouTube- Land Rover Discovery River Crossing[/nomedia] or search for vindicator2008 on youtube, I've got quite a few Disco videos up there.

 

[sierrafery]

The best thing u can do on a disco without replacing the axles with some older version on which u can lock the halfshafts manually(as u said big and expensive work) is this ARB, Detroit and Truetrac differentials , not cheap but easy to fix. I'm not much of an off-roader but i've seen a Disco 1 equipped with these in extreme competition and it was smack unbeatable.

The "submarine" kind of thing is above my knowledge.

 

[V8_Disco]

i take it you already have axle breathers and a snorkel, and drain plugs, electric fan would be usefull so you can turn it off for deep water. A mate of mine put a cut off switch on the dash that turns off non essential electrical items such as lights/radio/windows etc also for water crossings, rip out your carpets, they wont last 5 mins with all the water, and keep one window down, that way if it stalls you can get out.

KAM Locker - pain in the arse but when it works its great
ARb Locker - uses origonal kit unlike the KAM so from the outside the axle looks more stock i think

But to cope with lockers you will need aerospace hardened half shafts and CV joints aswell as HD drive flanges if you dont want to break them every time you touch the loud pedal

 

[vindicator]

Thanks guys for the advices. I figured the lockers would be way too expensive, I might do that at a later time when I come across a good deal.
But for the water, sure I have the snorkel, but I don't have the axle breathers nor drain plugs... I was more worried about the fan, because it cannot spin in the water and I do not know if the belt will slip or what in the world could happen. I will have a look at the drain plug though.
Thanks again

 

[V8_Disco]

Thanks guys for the advices. I figured the lockers would be way too expensive, I might do that at a later time when I come across a good deal.
But for the water, sure I have the snorkel, but I don't have the axle breathers nor drain plugs... I was more worried about the fan, because it cannot spin in the water and I do not know if the belt will slip or what in the world could happen. I will have a look at the drain plug though.
Thanks again

depending where you live 'climate' and engine you have, an example is the 200tdi in this country some people remove the viscous unit completely and the engine runs fine
most other people opt to fit an electric fan which can be turned off for wading

 

[Mr Noisy]

I have recently fitted arb air lockers front and rear, and went out first time last weekend.

It doesn't make the car unstoppable in deep clay, it just gets stuck.

However I tried some pretty mad twisters and ugly looking gullies that a open diffed vehicle would have been unable to manage without either lots of speed or lots of power.

I simply crept it, found the stuck point, locked 1 or 2 diffs and then crawled over the problem.

This way i can minimise damage to bodywork or transmission.

I am running stock 10 spline shafts and cba upgrading, so I will take it easy and it'll be fine.

They are easily the greatest thing I've done with the car, a very proppa mod.

Cheers

 

[Urban Panzer]

i take it you already have axle breathers and a snorkel, and drain plugs, electric fan would be usefull so you can turn it off for deep water. A mate of mine put a cut off switch on the dash that turns off non essential electrical items such as lights/radio/windows etc also for water crossings, rip out your carpets, they wont last 5 mins with all the water, and keep one window down, that way if it stalls you can get out.

KAM Locker - pain in the arse but when it works its great
ARb Locker - uses origonal kit unlike the KAM so from the outside the axle looks more stock i think

But to cope with lockers you will need aerospace hardened half shafts and CV joints aswell as HD drive flanges if you dont want to break them every time you touch the loud pedal

Thats not always the case, the locker as we know stops the wheels spinning then "grabbing" the terrain which is what happens with open diffs, this is when the damage is done to the halfshafts and the diff.....

so fitting the lockers actually can make the drive train last longer and the halfshaft then becomes the "weak point" when the locker is installed (which is what you want) so if the unfortunate happens you break the shaft instead of the diff, obviously driving like an idiot offroad will make the situation worse, but that would and does happen with the factory setup as well.

 

[sierrafery]

I was thinking about putting truetrac(the one which blocks halfshafts) on my D2 coz i go much on strait and muddy roads with deep gullies on both sides but i'm still working on the idea that then i'll must put a switch to disconnect the TC. On this kind of roads the TC is not the best feature coz it has the tendency to pull the car toward the gully or (as many of u know) when the TC is on in deep mud the steering wheel becomes quite useless.... I know coz i've payed lots of bears to tractor drivers to pull me out. I think if the shafts are blocked the TC is not the best ideea to work.....they will work one against the other... dont they? ... wont the brake discs/pads overheat then?......i'm still thinking how to sort this out...any thoughts guys?

 

[Urban Panzer]

The more physical locks you add in the drivetrain / axles, the more the TC becomes redundant.

So with a D2 "for example".....

If you add a CDL (first !) then say a rear axle locker, then the TC will be mainly working on the front axle, so you will have almost TRUE 3 wheel drive.

As far as a truetrac goes, don't know much about them tbh, but as its a LSD, then it will always allow some wheel spin before it works, and by then you maybe stuck already, in particular if one of the wheel is off the ground it may not work at all

 

[sierrafery]

Thanks....i'll just insert a switch to be able to cut off the TC.

 

[Urban Panzer]

Cannot see why you would want to do that tbh, the TC can be a pain in sand situations, but generally it is a very good system, add the CDL and the D2 is very very good.

 

[Mr Noisy]

I agree with panzer I think.

Not that I have ever had first hand experience of a D2 off road, but as far as I see it, the TC works like active diff locks, stopping a spinning wheel and diverting power to a wheel with grip.

Apart from having 4 wheels locked, which might prevent you from getting stuck in the first place, I would have thought TC would get you out of any axle twist situation.

I bet most D2 owners don't think locking diffs are as important as D1 owners do...

 

[sierrafery]

Cannot see why you would want to do that tbh, the TC can be a pain in sand situations, but generally it is a very good system, add the CDL and the D2 is very very good.

i thaught about this for case whan i put the truetrac on.....the truetrac works like an axle locker, it locks the halfshafts when spinning so they are turning both the same way......if the TC kicks in it will put the brake on a wheel and the truetrac will do it's job and turn it even with the brake on. Now there are 3 variants i think:
1. truetrac locks and by that reason the TC doesnt "feel" any spinning and rests.
2. TC works before truetrac kicks in and then for a period the wheel will turn with brake on it.
3. Truetrac locks + TC works > disc pads, halfshaft or even the diff itself gets fecked.
.........dou see any other possibilities
Anyway i'll put the switch for TC and the truetrac and give it a good test in the mud........we'll see......that switch wont beg any food from me even if it's unused

 

[bmp42]

whats wrong with the old way of locking axles - lightly press brake pedal and the wheel without grip locks and fools the diff into working , costs fook all and works every time

 

[Mr Noisy]

How is that possible?

Assuming the brakes work equally on both sides of the axle, pressing the brake pedal will slow both wheels, grip or no grip.

So you're stuck in a rut and the car won't budge. You apply the brakes hard enough to stop a spinning wheel, bit you need to give the car power to pull out of the situation, and yet your driving wheel is braked too.

I'm sorry but I don't see it working.

 

[bmp42]

so you are not familiair with the trials car of old or even the original teachings of Land Rover themselves - taught at Land Rover Experience until tc came in

 

[Mr Noisy]

Apparently not!

I'll try to remember to give it a try this weekend!

As I say, I just can't figure how the braking force on one wheel is enough to make the other one turn, when the braking force on that wheel is trying to stop it!!

Cheers, sam.

 

[bmp42]

Apparently not!

I'll try to remember to give it a try this weekend!

As I say, I just can't figure how the braking force on one wheel is enough to make the other one turn, when the braking force on that wheel is trying to stop it!!

Cheers, sam.

all you are doing is fooling the diffs into action - doesn't break any drivetrain items - only needs a light touch to the brake to act as a drag, have been using this technique for over 36 years of Land Rover ownership and also rallying front wheel drive cars without lsd - works every time

 

[Urban Panzer]

i thaught about this for case whan i put the truetrac on.....the truetrac works like an axle locker, it locks the halfshafts when spinning so they are turning both the same way......if the TC kicks in it will put the brake on a wheel and the truetrac will do it's job and turn it even with the brake on. Now there are 3 variants i think:

1. truetrac locks and by that reason the TC doesnt "feel" any spinning and rests.

2. TC works before truetrac kicks in and then for a period the wheel will turn with brake on it.

3. Truetrac locks + TC works > disc pads, halfshaft or even the diff itself gets fecked.

.........dou see any other possibilities

Anyway i'll put the switch for TC and the truetrac and give it a good test in the mud........we'll see......that switch wont beg any food from me even if it's unused

1. Depends on whether a CDL is engaged or not, the TC can also send power front to back aswell. It will ignore the rear wheels as they are spinning at the same speed, but it will compare both of them with the front and will "brake" the spinning wheel on the front axle.

2. Unlikely as once the locker is "locked", the 2 wheels on that axle will be the same speed, so it will compare them to the front axle and "brake" the wheel with the higher average "speed" (spinning)

3. As already said, the more "PHYSICAL" locks you add, the more the TC becomes redundant and will just operate less and less.

I agree with panzer I think.

Not that I have ever had first hand experience of a D2 off road, but as far as I see it, the TC works like active diff locks, stopping a spinning wheel and diverting power to a wheel with grip.

Apart from having 4 wheels locked, which might prevent you from getting stuck in the first place, I would have thought TC would get you out of any axle twist situation.

I bet most D2 owners don't think locking diffs are as important as D1 owners do...

It can and it does, its very hard if not almost impossible to cross axle a D2.

How is that possible?



Assuming the brakes work equally on both sides of the axle, pressing the brake pedal will slow both wheels, grip or no grip.



So you're stuck in a rut and the car won't budge. You apply the brakes hard enough to stop a spinning wheel, bit you need to give the car power to pull out of the situation, and yet your driving wheel is braked too.



I'm sorry but I don't see it working.

Left foot braking can work that way, its "basically" what the TC does, although TC only brakes the spinning wheel.

 

[Mr Noisy]

Yeah I kinda see the logic now.

Applying the brakes lightly is enough to change the diff from sending all the power one way to sending a bit if power both ways.

Makes more sense to me in the rally car example because both wheels are turning fast, as opposed to a land rover which has one wheel stuck.

Obviously TC works on the same principle but brakes the correct wheel only, for more effficient power delivery.

Clever method though, holding the diff in balance, I like it!

Jeez, I wish I hadn't bought the ARBs now...!

(ok I'm joking )

Cheers.