Series 2 My brakes are utter crap

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Marmaduke

Well-Known Member
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Near the land of 'Me Duck'
They are ****e, standard britpart drums with britpart shoes and a mixture of britpart and girling slave cylinders. I've messed about adjusting them and they are still crap. If I apply light pressure to the pedal it goes up and down and if I stomp on it then they are not much better.
Can anyone give me some pointers that doesn't include fitting a servo because I don't want to chop the wing, threre's got to be some better quality brake shoes the the blue box crap that are currently on there and I don't care if I'm swapping them out every couple of years cos they wear down quickly it'd be just nice to stop

Thanks Rob
 
I used Mintex on my series 3, the brakes are pretty good for an old un, although mine does have a servo and 11 inch drums. The wheels will lock up if I stamp on the pedal. When did you change yours? Maybe they just need bedding in. Did you roughen the surface of the brake linings before you fitted them?

Col
 
If the pedal goes up and down that is a sign drums are warped.
Check the mating face on the hub that the drum sits on is clean.
 
Drums and shoes were brand new earlier this year and I've done a couple of thousand miles so I should have thought they'd be bedded in by now :(
I used Mintex on my series 3, the brakes are pretty good for an old un, although mine does have a servo and 11 inch drums. The wheels will lock up if I stamp on the pedal. When did you change yours? Maybe they just need bedding in. Did you roughen the surface of the brake linings before you fitted them?

Col

If the pedal goes up and down that is a sign drums are warped.
Check the mating face on the hub that the drum sits on is clean.
 
I did a lot (I mean LOT) of research including phoning and speaking to various tech departments about lining materials. I settled on Borg&Beck and bought them off e-bay. They cost £30 per axle set and they are at least 2x better than the Mintex in terms of pedal pressure vs braking performance. The mintex are a metal loaded hard lining so they last well (and they fitted well) but I wanted friction and damn the wear. I do 3k miles / year and if they did 10k and stopped I'd be happy. The B&B are a non particle soft polymer and boy do they stop. Its hard to be certain because I fitted the B&B shoes and a bigger servo (early 90/110) going from the series 8" to a 9". Mine is a LWB with TLS fronts and its heavy - Perkins, camper roof, mil chassis, Wolfs, it stops like a modern car. It will lock the wheels and chuck you into the screen. The 9" servo goes on with no wing cutting so I'm not sure what you mean about that. You do have to make a 1/2 stand off plate to clear the steering tube and make/modify a clevis but its all fairly easy. check the numbers carefully as they do the SWB and LWB
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Sh...413166&hash=item4dab23151e:g:KWcAAOSwbBRfIavh
 
What were the brakes like before you replaced everything? I had a bit of a shock when I bought mine and drove it for the first time, the brakes were worse than anything I'd ever experienced but I did get used to them.

Col
 
Mintex have not been flavour of the month for a couple of years now, the pin the adjuster rests against breaks off.
Cheap new drums are rubbish.
Britparts shoes/slave and master cylinders are actually quite good.

Mine are std 10 inch sls single line system all around, and work okay.
 
What were the brakes like before you replaced everything? I had a bit of a shock when I bought mine and drove it for the first time, the brakes were worse than anything I'd ever experienced but I did get used to them.

Col
When I got it around 6 years ago they were terrible, so I put new drums, shoes, cylinders/master cylinder and brakelines and they were OK. could pass an MOT and was drivable - I've done about 10,000 miles since then but modern traffic was always stressfull, pedal pressures high and a lot of any stop was done on the gears. Late summer 2019 we did a fully loaded drive from Swindon to Weymouth and had to get there for a show, it was a horrendous journey, A road, fast traffic, steep hills and lots of stops and when we arrived I swore I would sort the brakes what ever it took. I fitted Wolf wheels ready for a Zues disc conversion but decided to get everything as good as possible first. New adjusters helped, the bigger servo did too, my 8" S3 one was in poor condition and the new 9" one off a 90 was actually a lot cheaper. Looking at the shoes I could see they were hardly worn and going back over forum posts; while most people had terrible brakes there were some with drums who had no problem and could lock al the wheels. Digging a bit deeper the people with good brakes often had Ferodo linings so I set out to get some. I couldn't find any but I did find that there were only 4 or 5 manufacturers, just getting re lablelled. I knew I didn't want BP or Mintex so I indentifed 3, a German one, an Italian and B&B, spoke to 2 out of the 3 and got good info from B&B (they are in Banbury - their tech guy even called me back at home). The German one emphasised how hard wearing they were for van use and could do 100,000kms, that got them rejected. When I found the B&B were £30 I bought some to try out, and was amazed. The Mintex look like you would expect, mottled, sparkly, and hard pressure with a finger nail leaves no mark. the B&B are kharki colour uniform with no flecks but the odd bubble (!) on the edges as though they are poured. A finger nail leaves a clear mark. They are much higher friction and I fully expect them to wear much faster but as I say, I don't care. The "acid test" is my trip home, there's a long fast by-pass down hill to a roundabout, on the old set up I would go through the gears 1/2 mile ahead and put a lot of force on the pedal, now I drive at the same speed as the modern vehiles and brake the same and only use a normal pedal force, its a totally different experience. We are 2 1/4T (got weighed) on 11" brakes all round, TLS at the front and 235/85-16 tyres.
Had the B&B not fixed the problem my next option was to get the Mintex shoes relined at a specialist - they quoted £80 per axle set and could do them in a week and guarenteed much better braking which I thought was a very good deal. OK its really imporant to sort all the leaks, mine has new hub seals, lands and cylinder seals but I also think the big problem is a lot of the linings on sale now are too hard.
 
Interesting. I've fitted new drums/shoes/cylinders to my braking system in the rebuild, but I make the mistake of buying Mintex shoes (before I saw all the negative comments in the forum). I can't remember the make of the drums I got, but while I've not driven the Landy yet, spinning the wheel with it jacked up, it doesn't feel very even, so I may well also be suffering from the 'oval drum' problem.

I'll see how it runs when I get it mobile, but I'm fearing the worse, so this is good/timely information to have in case I need to replace anything (again).

May I ask where you sourced them? The B&B web site doesn't seem to be very inviting regarding ordering from them directly. Ebay and Amazon look like possibilities, however. I've got the smaller drums all round (1979), so think I'd need 2 sets of BBS6049 shoes and BBR7031 drums. I guess I might be able to salvage a couple of roundish drums from the 4 I have, but I'd probably want to match shoe material in all corners.
 
I think us older drivers brake differently from younger drivers who are taught to slow down using the brakes rather than the gears. Having driven old cars with poor brakes compared to modern cars we automatically plan ahead when we see a situation needing to slow or stop. There is a steep downhill road on my usual drive that is a 50mph but most do 60, it's a chance for me to get my landy up to 60-65 and I charge down it, there are traffic lights and a roundabout at the bottom. I take my foot off the go pedal about 300 yards from the bottom and use the gears to get back down to a speed I can stop with the brakes if necessary. I see other drivers brake much earlier than me. The brakes on my landy were atrocious when I bought it, the Mintex are the only other brakes I've had on it so I don't have much to compare them with. I'll try B&B next time. I am glad I've got a servo, if it didn't have one, I would get one fitted.

Col
 
You're right about younger people braking differently. They drive differently too, cars are appliances and driven like a computer game car.
Series brakes can be just fine without a servo, never had a problem with my 2A fully loaded and towing a boat
 
Completely agree re modern driving, its very heavy on brakes and wastefull. I pride myself on my use of gears, but the problem is that we are not drving in isolation, as soon as I leave a nice gap someone pulls into it, as I slow down gently 3 cars get in front and brake hard. My braking is not of my choosing, its determined by modern drivers in modern cars - we live in a town centre which I'm sure makes this worse. I gave up riding my BSA that had served me very well for 30 years after a local bus out accelerated me and cut me up. Its was a 350 and would be expected to keep up with traffic but it had become dangerous. I think this is going to get worse with "green" hybrid busses as they can accellerate very hard.
 
Re brakes, here is a pic of the Mintex next to the B&B. The Mintex have done about 10k miles and show very little wear, the B&B are new and I've sanded them before fitting. They are clealry differnet materials, the Mintex are metalic and particles, the B&B are uniform resin. My issue with the Mintex was simply the they were too hard for my application.
I got the B&B from "carpartsinmotion" on e-bay and found them very good, I ordered one morning and they arrived the following afternoon, they seem to be a big business - 336000 items sold, 2.1M items for sale.over 99% positive feed back. I put a link in my earlier post.
20200516_113142_resized.jpg
 
You haven't been watching the Land rover instruction films!

9:39 "just let the engine do the braking"

always made me chuckle going to offroad events in my 2A, I'd be there in my 2.25 petrol on leaf springs, next to lifted 'trucks' with snorkels, winches, snatchblocks, engine upgrades and go faster stripes, driven by professional club members who have done every offroad course under the sun. most times I got stuck were when i was being whingey and didnt want to bend/scratch my motor

the attitude was always, you dont have a decent rig and you don't know what you're doing, you're just a young lad
 
When I first got mine it was in quite a state but passed its MOT with new shoes and a bleed. I drove it for a week or so with few issues then found myself at my nephews house one afternoon to show off uncle Bobs new toy.
Their dad is a copper and looked like he fancied a go so I threw over the keys and said ‘go on’.
He took it out for spin round the housing estate but came back as white as a ghost. He couldn’t believe how bad the breaking was and said he nearly crashed it twice within a couple of hundred yards. I’d had no issues and have had none in the next six years since.
I think there must be something in the theory of understanding a vehicles limitations and driving accordingly and the drivers age and appreciation of different driving techniques.
 
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