Disco 2 ACE removal

I'm in the process of removing the ACE on my car. I've removed the pulley and done some of the pipework but I can't remove the ACE block. It's on the RHS, mounted on the chassis - the reason I can't remove it is because there are no heads to the bolts. I assume there should be, the LR manual indicates that there should be bolts; I'm guessing that whoever fitted the LPG must have ground them off so they wouldn't mark up the under sill tank.

What's the easiest way to remove them? I was just going to grind them off; any suggestions?

Such a shame people don't spend the same effort (or less) in maintaining ACE. Removing it is such a ghetto answer and makes the vehicle so much inferior.

Salisburylander said:

What's the easiest way to remove them? I was just going to grind them off; any suggestions?

Click to expand...

Personally I would use a grinder to remove it if you don't have any bolt heads left.

300bhp/ton said:

Such a shame people don't spend the same effort (or less) in maintaining ACE. Removing it is such a ghetto answer and makes the vehicle so much inferior.

Click to expand...

Disagree - yes the ACE system is good, however I removed it on my D2 and didn't look back on it. It's one less thing to go wrong possibly meaning it's not on the back of a recovery truck home after a failure.

I've just had a peek at mine..it looks like there's 3 bolts securing it to the chassis so without the bolt heads its a grinder job. I think ACE is ace and will certainly repair mine when it fails!

Mine is getting a hydraulic conversion, hope to get flexy hoses on the back

I'm removing it for economic reasons. Corroded and leaking pipes and a knackered pump means it's going! Smoke from the pump was a bit of a concern.

D2 without ACE is not really any different to with it, unless you are a more 'extreme' driver. Mine's been off for 2 years now and I just don't miss it or feel any effects from not having it.

The solid ARB's and good shock absorbers do a very good job, and the most recent D2 V8 we bought wasn't ever fitted with it.

The main reason we took ours off was corroded pipes and the spectre of breaking down in Europe with the big trailer on tow.

Peter

listerdiesel said:

D2 without ACE is not really any different to with it, unless you are a more 'extreme' driver. Mine's been off for 2 years now and I just don't miss it or feel any effects from not having it.

The solid ARB's and good shock absorbers do a very good job, and the most recent D2 V8 we bought wasn't ever fitted with it.

The main reason we took ours off was corroded pipes and the spectre of breaking down in Europe with the big trailer on tow.

Peter

Click to expand...

I have to wonder if you've ever actually driven one with a working ACE then? The difference with and without is stark and massively obvious. If you really can't tell the difference with not having it, then something was definitely amiss.

Until recently I had a D3 as my main drive. The handling and cornering ability of the D2 with ACE in my opinion is better. There is nowhere near the body roll of the D3, especially evident on roundabouts.
I'm not a particularly aggressive driver, but it's good not to get that "toppling over feeling". Having said that, I understand that off road it's not such a good thing!

300bhp/ton said:

Such a shame people don't spend the same effort (or less) in maintaining ACE. Removing it is such a ghetto answer and makes the vehicle so much inferior.

Click to expand...

+1 on that

300bhp/ton said:

I have to wonder if you've ever actually driven one with a working ACE then? The difference with and without is stark and massively obvious. If you really can't tell the difference with not having it, then something was definitely amiss.

Click to expand...

+1 to that too

V8 shooter said:

...Having said that, I understand that off road it's not such a good thing!

Click to expand...

-1 on that cos it's very good off-road as well:
From the WSM:

"Off-road driving
Off-road detection is achieved by the ECU by monitoring the signals from the upper and lower accelerometers for
varying degrees of body movement. Off-road driving generates differing signals to the accelerometers which in turn
produce differing outputs due to their vertical separation and the location of the roll centre of the vehicle. The two
signals are passed through a filter to remove any offset caused by the vehicle leaning or the terrain. The ECU then
uses this signal to calculate the percentage of road roughness.
Below 25 mph (40 km/h) the percentage of road roughness calculated is used by the ECU to limit the operation of the
ACE system. The system is completely inoperative at speeds below 2 mph (3 km/h). At speeds above 25 mph (40
km/h) the system disables the percentage road roughness signal and full ACE system assistance is restored.
Side slope detection
The ECU uses side slope detection when the upper and lower accelerometers detect an average acceleration of more
than ± 0.2 g and a road speed of less than 25 mph (40 km/h).
When side slope is detected both DCV's close to provide a 'locked bars' condition. This condition increases stability
and gives a consistent vehicle response. As the road speed increases up to 25 mph (40 km/h), the level of average
lateral acceleration must also increase and be maintained for the system to recognise that the vehicle is on a side
slope. If the side slope angle is steep and the road speed is low, the ECU will detect the side slope in a short time."

In a nutshell it's a brilliant system which makes a noticeable difference and a shame to be removed only for maintainance cost purposes especially that there are cheap alternatives for the pipes and the market is full of cheap perfectly working pumps, ECUs and modulators due to that pipe leak induced conversion hysteria

IMO getting rid of any good system as ACE or SLS then saying there's no noticeable difference is called(from psychological point of view) "Cognitive Dissonance: The Engine of Self-justification"

V8 shooter said:

Until recently I had a D3 as my main drive. The handling and cornering ability of the D2 with ACE in my opinion is better. There is nowhere near the body roll of the D3, especially evident on roundabouts.
I'm not a particularly aggressive driver, but it's good not to get that "toppling over feeling". Having said that, I understand that off road it's not such a good thing!

Click to expand...

Actually it disconnects off road, but on side slopes locks back in again.

And I have followed a leaning D3

We have driven our D2 with fully working ACE for 65000 or more miles, including towing 3500kg trailer through Europe and round the UK, so please do'nt let us have silly comments about not driving a working system, I am fully aware of what a working ACE system can and cannot do.

In normal driving, including the LR promotional video, you'll see that ACE only works when the sensors detect body roll, whereas the solid ARB's are working continuously.

I don't drive to the extent that I ever activated the ACE system that much, and I still find the cornering to be just as good with solid ARB's, but maybe my driving style at 70 yrs of age is different to the younger members.

ACE was an option on the D2, it wasn't mandatory if I remember correctly.

Peter

No seriously you must be completely numb or totally unobservant. Working ACE is as big a difference as going from a sports car to a Defender. Or the difference between a hot cup of tea and a pint of bitter.

As for activating it, any bend, junction or round about in the UK is more than sufficient, even when driving slowly and gently.

So you are either lying or exaggerating for internet hyperbole if you are claiming you can feel no difference. .. or it was broken.

Interesting conversation. One thing I wonder here is what is the difference between the following, as I have never driven a D2 with working ACE. I did drive one with the ACE pump removed but not with the uprated ARBs and it seemed to be the same to slighty worse than the Std vehicle.

1) Vehicle in good working order fitted with ACE.
2) Vehicle without ACE as std from factory.
3) Vehicle with ACE pump removed, BUT not fitted with the uprated ARB's fitted to non ACE vehicles.
4) Vehicle with a leaking / broken ACE system.

Cheers

listerdiesel said:

....
In normal driving, including the LR promotional video, you'll see that ACE only works when the sensors detect body roll, whereas the solid ARB's are working continuously.

I don't drive to the extent that I ever activated the ACE system that much, and I still find the cornering to be just as good with solid ARB's, but maybe my driving style at 70 yrs of age is different to the younger members.

ACE was an option on the D2, it wasn't mandatory if I remember correctly.

Peter

Click to expand...

1. but what's the purpose of anti ROLL bars though to be needed to work continuosly? ... you dont have to drive as to activate it cos it's continuosly active with limited operation above 2mph and in full force above 25mph

2. SLS was an option too, and it's far more better than coils even though some of those who got rid of it keep saying it's no big difference.... so was aircon also option... being an option doesnt mean it's something neglectable IMO just that people pay more for a better equipped vehicle.... then pay again to covert it to an inferior quality better than fix it, cos these days as i said keeping the ACE is less expensive than buying a conversion kit for more than 300 quid

Don't agree on keeping an old hydraulic system running is cheaper than £150 which is what I paid some years back for a pair of axles with all the fittings from a TD5

Even now, replacing leaking rams, rotting pipes, valve blocks and pumps is not cheap unless you buy secondhand, and then you're not buying reliability.

The cost of repairing the system out on the road soon makes a conversion quite attractive, even at today's prices.

Don't forget, mine is November 1998 build, one of the first production cars.

Peter

300bhp/ton said:

No seriously you must be completely numb or totally unobservant. Working ACE is as big a difference as going from a sports car to a Defender. Or the difference between a hot cup of tea and a pint of bitter.

As for activating it, any bend, junction or round about in the UK is more than sufficient, even when driving slowly and gently.

So you are either lying or exaggerating for internet hyperbole if you are claiming you can feel no difference. .. or it was broken.

Click to expand...

Sad to get that kind of response, but with three D2's in the family that we look after ourselves, I feel that my comments are as valid as anyone else's on here.

As far as driving is concerned, our main one has 174k on the clock from 89k when we bought it with a blown engine in 2009, just pased its MOT with no advisories, so I'm happy with that. Probably near 1500000 miles driving over the years, bikes, cars, vans, HGV's, so been around a bit. Just waiting to get my HGV licence restored after heart surgery so I can get the Mercedes out on the road with the big trailer

Peter

I just got my ACE fixed for relative very little effort and money (around 120 euro). I made some serious improvements on the connection front. The car has a superior road handling than mu mates without. A world of difference. I really don't understand why people would take it out.

I notice it in every bend and roundabout very clearly, I also use more diesel as I go faster LOL

But each to their own.

neilly said:

Interesting conversation. One thing I wonder here is what is the difference between the following, as I have never driven a D2 with working ACE. I did drive one with the ACE pump removed but not with the uprated ARBs and it seemed to be the same to slighty worse than the Std vehicle.

1) Vehicle in good working order fitted with ACE.
2) Vehicle without ACE as std from factory.
3) Vehicle with ACE pump removed, BUT not fitted with the uprated ARB's fitted to non ACE vehicles.
4) Vehicle with a leaking / broken ACE system.

Cheers

Click to expand...

A D2 without ACE will corner very much like any other coil sprung Land Rover, such as a Range Rover Classics, D1, Defender or even a p38a to a certain extent.

The Watts linkage and rear radius arm setup of the D2 will make some differences, but not ones your average driver could tell from behind the wheel.

ACE on the other hand is quite incredible and will feel like a completely different vehicle. How anyone can claim it doesn't, is completely beyond me and something I just can't relate too.

A D2 with ACE will have next to no body lean, at least, that is how it will feel from the drivers seat. It will feel like it leans less than a normal car and the body movement is very well controlled. You don't even need to drive quickly to notice it, just entering and exiting normal round abouts will be enough. But twisty roads and if you live in more mountainous areas, you'll notice it a whole lot more.

Uprated ARB's may well reduce lean, but it will still lean. ACE will stay flat, it's actually quite an odd and almost unnerving experience if you are used to other Land Rover products.

I was running about in an ACE equipped Td5 a few months back. And without a word of a lie, it felt like it had a lot less body roll than my Subaru Impreza Turbo. So much so, it makes me wonder why an ACE like system isn't more widely used on normal road cars.

As per my avatar, I currently have a 4.6 p38a on air. It rides and handles well, but feels like a wollowy thing compared to a D2 with ACE.

Why Land Rover never equipped the p38a with ACE I'll never know (I even posted a thread on here asking why).


Not sure if I've answered your question or not. But the biggest thing with ACE is the seat of the pants feel, something very hard to demonstrate in text on a forum.

However, if you get the chance to try one with working ACE, I encourage you to do so.

Yep +1, I notice it every corner and roundabout.