Head bolts jammed and won't pull out???

Hi guys, hoping for some advice here and an easy answer but getting worried.
I started the job of changing my K series head gasket and have run into a problem getting the head off. Eight of the head bolts came out nice and easy but two are jammed and won't pull through the block. They were a little tighter than the others after the initial release but now they are just spinning (but are still quite tight) at the point where they should just pull out so looks like they're jammed in the block. I tried prizing them out with a screwdriver while unscrewing them but they just got tighter and tighter so I screwed them back in again to the point where they should be free but they're still tight and the head still won't come off.
I think there must be bits of head gasket or swarf from knackered threads on the bolts which is now embedded in the shafts of the block.
I'm thinking I might have to pull off the sump and oil rail and either grind off the threads so I can pull them up or grind off the heads so I can pull them down. Does this sound feasible but if I do will I then be able to get the new bolts through?
In a bit of a panic now so if you have had this before or can give any help would be very grateful.

Cheers
Ali

Okay - that's some tricky bolts. As you know they should pull up and out through the head. There's possibly a lot of congealed oil/grease/muck and poss' some thread 'swarf' as well. That later point will most likely mean you may need to replace that oils rail in the sump - especially if the threads are damaged.

The whole the come up through is reasonably generous in size. Perhaps have another go. Is it poss' to trickle some oil solvent [turps, white spirit, kero...] down each bolt's shaft?

If you cut the bolt head off I'm sure you would be careful to cover up critical areas to avoid particles getting into the motor. Yes the sump would have to come off and then that oils rail with the two bolts still embedded so to speak.

good luck

Are we sure bolt hasn't sheared?

Thanks bud
Have posted in MG-Rover.org too and one of the suggestions was to turn back and forward whilst levering up with a screwdriver instead of continually unscrewing. might be worth trying both. Could squirt some brake cleaner in there to see how it goes but it really is pretty tight so not sure it would work. The last time I changes a head gasket I found the gasket wasn't lined up perfectly and it fouled the bolts as I put them in but I took everything apart and fixed it. I'm wondering if some ape did the same but just shoved them through and now bits of HG are jamming it.

fanatic said:

Are we sure bolt hasn't sheared?

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If it had sheared wouldn't it come out easily?
Also with a screwdriver levering up on their heads the bolts were unscrewing but got so tight I was scared they might shear and screwed them back in again.

Alibro said:

If it had sheared wouldn't it come out easily?

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If water has gone round bolts then they can be a bastard to get out on some engines

fanatic said:

If water has gone round bolts then they can be a bastard to get out on some engines

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Am I likely to do harm to the block trying to work them out?

Alibro said:

Am I likely to do harm to the block trying to work them out?

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The bolts go into rail or web in sump, the holes are not threaded in block.
The rail is replaceable- however I would be tempted to put the bolts that came out easy back just nipped up.

The reason I suggest the above is that you have an engine with liners you really do not want to disturb.

fanatic said:

The bolts go into rail or web in sump, the holes are not threaded in block.
The rail is replaceable- however I would be tempted to put the bolts that came out easy back just nipped up.

The reason I suggest the above is that you have an engine with liners you really do not want to disturb.

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Good point, I'll do that before any further messing about.

From bottom is sump,sump gasket, rail is third from bottom

I imagine the bolts used were not of quality and the threads are buggered on them and in the oil rail so you have got to strip top and bottom anyway, you will have to fit new ladder to the bottom end, so you could chop the bolts to remove head

freelance said:

I imagine the bolts used were not of quality and the threads are buggered on them and in the oil rail so you have got to strip top and bottom anyway, you will have to fit new ladder to the bottom end, so you could chop the bolts to remove head

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If that winds up being the case, and you haven't already, fit the strengthened bottom oil rail.

I was thinking about it last night and suspect even i get them out I'll have to strip the bottom anyway as without cleaning the holes properly I'll never be able to torque the new bolts properly.
New oil rail is a no brainer now.

Edit
Just been looking at some photos of the oil rail and need to confirm do the bolt holes in the oil rail have open ends or closed? In other words does oil/crap etc fall through the bolt holes or get trapped in them?

In the diagram above there is a sump gasket. I thought the more recent engines just had sealant?

htr said:

If that winds up being the case, and you haven't already, fit the strengthened bottom oil rail.

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Been looking at it again today and currently thinking some ape has crossed threads when putting these bolts in and now the swarf is coming up with the bolts.
I now have a new upgraded oil rail on it's way as suggested. Will take the sump and oil rail off tonight and take a look. Hopefully I can clear the debris from below.

When the bolts are put in, they should be oiled and gently inserted, the common mistake is they just get dropped in the hole which buggers the thread in oil rail, bolt screws in tightly never to come undone, you have been warned!

Good news! The bolts are out and the head is now free. Turns out the problem was old oil which was so grungy it was like tar. With help from a mate and my son we got the sump and oil rail off and found the bottom of the bolts covered in the sticky stuff. We cleaned the ends and screwed them back up a little bit, tapped them back down and cleaned them again. Repeated the process half a dozen times or so and finally got them out. Once free it was easy to clean the shafts with a head bolt and some brake cleaner.

Alibro said:

In the diagram above there is a sump gasket. I thought the more recent engines just had sealant?

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generic k series diagram

Finally got the car running yesterday but have a few pics of the gunge responsible for my problems

The block with oil channels completely blocked on the right hand side. You can also see how much oil was coming out of the cam seal and cam carrier.


The rest of it not looking too special,


A very small amount of the crap that came out of it below where I was poking with a small screwdriver. This stuff was actually crumbly almost like the oil had crystallised.


We cleared the block fairly easily but had to take the cam rail and camshafts off to clean the head properly. After cleaning, we put everything back together but because it was so dirty I decided to put an oil flush in, so with all fluids present I tried to start it.
Oh Dear! It wouldn't start, I spent an hour or so checking everything was connected correctly but no joy. I then went online and found another thread where someone couldn't start a K series after changing the head gasket and the advice was check the cam pulleys have the roll pin in the correct place for their position.
Doh! I hadn't realised they could go on wrong so pulled off the securing bolts and found they were both wrong.

Photo pulled from internet showing the little roll pin for exhaust cam in this case.


The Inlet cam had the roll pin in the exhaust position and the exhaust cam was at inlet. Seems this is a common mistake.
Refitted them correctly, fitted timing belt and she started first turn of the key.
Let it tick over for 20 minutes, drained the flush and put in some Magnetec 10W40 and took it for a drive. Not driven far yet but so far all is well.

So a simple head gasket change turned into a much bigger job due to some idiot not having the oil changed regularly. and this idiot not reading the manual properly