Anyone having to pre-heat their 300tdi *three* times each morning??

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fishsponge

fishsponge

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So... anyone else or is it just me??

If it is just me (i.e. it's not a generic Land Rover thing), what do you think the fault is?

If I preheat just once or twice, it will start eventually, but takes many seconds of turning over on battery before it fires!

Two preheats is better than 1 and 3 is better than 2 though, so it's not intermittent, it's just crap!
 
I'd be tempted to check the glow plugs are all working, check the wiring harness first aand then the plugs. I've little experience with the 300 tdi but my 200 tdi in my series 2a needs no glow plugs usually and at the coldest times I give her 10 seconds. I can't imagine the 300 tdi is much different.....next I'd check the battery to see if that's up to spec and cranking fast enough....

Hopefully someone with more experience will be along to help you further.
 
It's probably your battery or glow plugs or both. I've recently replaced both and its starting better now this this cold weather than it did in the summer!
 
Hmm, could be plugs. My 300 will only 'just' turn over in the cold so the battery is likely shot, but she fires on the first spin so i'm not too worried (yet). I only give it one pre-heat and crank as soon as the lamp goes out.

I doubt my battery will see the spring next year.
 
Both our TDi's require only 1 lot of glowplugs even in the coldest weather before firing up.

It sounds like you have something wearing out - either battery or glowplugs or glowplug circuit or an issue in the fuel circuit.

My advice? Try a jump lead between the battery neg lead and the engine block, try charging up the battery overnight.
 
Are any glow plugs better than others, as I glow plug mine a few times in the morning too. I know my battery etc are all ok.

I did check my glow plugs where ok by taking them out, and connecting them to a 12v battery with a little bit of oil on them, and they smoked the oil, but guess they could be wearing out, given I don't know how old they are - at least a year is all I can determine (as that's how long I have owned the disco).

Had a look on flea bay, and they range from £11.00 delivered for bog standard ones, to NGK versions for around £37.00 delivered. Are the NGK's really worth the extra £25.00 odd quid?
 
Maybe mine is a one off, but I can go out first thing in the morning when its frozen over, put the key in the ignition whilst stood outside turn the key and she fires up almost straight away no cranking and no throttle. Its something she has always done. :)
 
This is the winter ive had my disco and i dont wait for my glow plugs, just jump in turn key fires on the second turn of the engine and mines done 224000 miles plus, and as said already you dont need to put oil on the plugs to check them thay should glow red hot very quickly, make sure you have got hold of the correct end when you connect it up.
Also you should check them on the car, just because they heat up on a battery doesn't mean when using the vehcles wiring/relay ect.
 
Battery output lower in cold weather - slower cranking .
Starter could also be slowing down - slower cranking .
I think I once read (but am open to correction :D) that while a petrol engine nedds to turn at 500 rpm to start - a diesel needs to turn at something like 800 rpm to start .
And I have often noticed with a variety of dsl engines that whiile they could turn over on the starter for ages before starting - if you could let the vehicle roll a short distance and then let up the clutch it would start straight away . The quick turn does the trick .
And having had problems with 2 family 300 Tdi's last winter - one was solved by getting the starter reconditioned and a new battery sorted the other one . (Changed heater plugs in each first but no improvement ).
 
So... both batteries are fine (wired up as one large capacity battery with no relay, no split charge). It cranks over at normal speed and everything else works fine with the engine off (winch, headlights + 6 spotlights etc...).

In summary, I know the batteries are fine.

As for bump starting it with the clutch, i have an auto. Not so simple.

I tried starting it this morning (after an overnight at -2 degrees C) with one shot of glowplugs and it started up after about 4 seconds of cranking.

After 2 shots of glowplugs it starts up after 2 seconds of cranking.

After 3 shots of glowplugs it starts up instantly (like on a hot summer's day).

Anyway... I think changing the plugs is the first thing to try.

Also, as StuRox said, is it worth buying good glowplugs rather than cheap ones? What do you get extra when you pay 3 times more for expensive ones?

And finally, is there anything to watch out for or be careful with when removing and testing them (other than 3rd degree burns, of course!)? I've heard that if you're not careful (or just unlucky) they can snap off in the head requiring removal of the head completely!
 
fishsponge said:
So... both batteries are fine (wired up as one large capacity battery with no relay, no split charge). It cranks over at normal speed and everything else works fine with the engine off (winch, headlights + 6 spotlights etc...).

In summary, I know the batteries are fine.

As for bump starting it with the clutch, i have an auto. Not so simple.

I tried starting it this morning (after an overnight at -2 degrees C) with one shot of glowplugs and it started up after about 4 seconds of cranking.

After 2 shots of glowplugs it starts up after 2 seconds of cranking.

After 3 shots of glowplugs it starts up instantly (like on a hot summer's day).

Anyway... I think changing the plugs is the first thing to try.

Also, as StuRox said, is it worth buying good glowplugs rather than cheap ones? What do you get extra when you pay 3 times more for expensive ones?

And finally, is there anything to watch out for or be careful with when removing and testing them (other than 3rd degree burns, of course!)? I've heard that if you're not careful (or just unlucky) they can snap off in the head requiring removal of the head completely!
Click to expand...
Mine is the same as this, I have just assumed one or more glow plugs is knackered, I guess I'll replace them one day
 
dooroy said:
I think I once read (but am open to correction :D) that while a petrol engine nedds to turn at 500 rpm to start - a diesel needs to turn at something like 800 rpm to start .
And I have often noticed with a variety of dsl engines that whiile they could turn over on the starter for ages before starting - if you could let the vehicle roll a short distance and then let up the clutch it would start straight away . The quick turn does the trick .
Click to expand...

Quite possible, it is a compression-ignition engine so the faster you can get the compression to rise, the quicker it will start (or should). On an older lump, there will all sorts of blow-by and leakage on a cold start and a slow crank will lose a lot of the valuable pressure before the injector squirts.

Quicker the better.
 
puppysandwich said:
Maybe mine is a one off, but I can go out first thing in the morning when its frozen over, put the key in the ignition whilst stood outside turn the key and she fires up almost straight away no cranking and no throttle. Its something she has always done. :)
Click to expand...


Not a one off, mine is a good starter too.

dooroy said:
I think I once read (but am open to correction :D) that while a petrol engine nedds to turn at 500 rpm to start - a diesel needs to turn at something like 800 rpm to start .
Click to expand...

Diesel doesn't need 800rpm to start, for sure. This morning was the coldest and once started it was idling at 750rpm before graudally increasing. So it can't have been turned over at 800. Probably right in that a diesel needs a higher spin speed to get going though.

I've noticed my glow plug light stays lit for longer now, on the initial start.
 
fishsponge said:
Also, as StuRox said, is it worth buying good glowplugs rather than cheap ones? What do you get extra when you pay 3 times more for expensive ones?

And finally, is there anything to watch out for or be careful with when removing and testing them (other than 3rd degree burns, of course!)? I've heard that if you're not careful (or just unlucky) they can snap off in the head requiring removal of the head completely!
Click to expand...
the cheapies you might be changing them next year.
the expansive ones might last 3 times as long.
i've had cheapies in mine for the last year, so far all ok (apart from the battery that dont like the cold. got it thru last years winter with intention of changing it, but havent yet)

not had one snap off, but dont over tighten them in an ally head.
cant remember torque setting, will look at rave an come back.
 
No diesles don't need to turn over at 800rpm to start, (neither do petrol engine need to be doing 500rpm) generaly most engines crank at about 200-300rpm, modern diesles will shut down if the rpm goes to low 650-700ish but this is to protect the engine and parts of the transmission.
 
fishsponge, are you running on derv, a veg/doozil mix or wvo?

only askin as i was having a similar problem last year but i was running a mix of doozil and svo which apparently thickens in the colder weather.

I went back to running on doozil and the cold start problem was gone.
 
I had the same problem last week. I took the plugs out 3 were knackered, Paddock are doing some cheap ones for £2.80 plus vat each got some of them no problems.
 
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