Santana PS-10

.....nearly a Land Rover!

Heard that these vehicles are now being imported. Anybody had any
experience of them? What are they like? Do they live up to their
ancestors? What's the depreciation like on them? .....Anything
really.......


Cheers,
Icky.

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 18:11:50 GMT, "the ickys"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>....nearly a Land Rover!
>
>Heard that these vehicles are now being imported. Anybody had any
>experience of them? What are they like? Do they live up to their
>ancestors? What's the depreciation like on them? .....Anything
>really.......
>

Well, it's cheaper than a defender, and has several advantages in
design over it. Had a good nose round one at Billing last year, I was
impressed.

I'm waiting for the SWB version myself.

Alex

I came across a garage in Perth that only deals in them. It was about 15k
for a top of the range one that really was a very high spec Defender. This
included bull bars, snorkel, chequerplating etc. Really nice vehicles.

I would buy one.

A

"Alex" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 18:11:50 GMT, "the ickys"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>....nearly a Land Rover!
>>
>>Heard that these vehicles are now being imported. Anybody had any
>>experience of them? What are they like? Do they live up to their
>>ancestors? What's the depreciation like on them? .....Anything
>>really.......
>>
>
> Well, it's cheaper than a defender, and has several advantages in
> design over it. Had a good nose round one at Billing last year, I was
> impressed.
>
> I'm waiting for the SWB version myself.
>
> Alex

On or around Tue, 08 Feb 2005 20:46:35 GMT, "Andrew Renshaw" <andrew.hart.i
hate [email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>I came across a garage in Perth that only deals in them. It was about 15k
>for a top of the range one that really was a very high spec Defender. This
>included bull bars, snorkel, chequerplating etc. Really nice vehicles.
>
>I would buy one.

me too, If I were in the market for a new 110.

advantages over the 110:

* wider rear door
* no seat box in the front
* wider rear load bed floor
* one-piece body, rubber-mounted.

differences:

* Iveco turbo engine (125PS, IIRC) instead of LR
* not sure what gearbox, I think it's the LT85.

possible disadvantages:

* leaf sprung (modern parabolics, though)
* probably more depreciation.
* doubtless some unique parts, especially lights, which will be more pricey.
* they don't offer the 146PS engine variant. Or didn't, anyway. Dunno how
hard it is to upgrade a 125 to 146.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Something there is that doesn't love a wall."
Robert Frost (1874-1963)

Austin Shackles wrote:

> On or around Tue, 08 Feb 2005 20:46:35 GMT, "Andrew Renshaw"
> <andrew.hart.i hate [email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>I came across a garage in Perth that only deals in them. It was about 15k
>>for a top of the range one that really was a very high spec Defender. This
>>included bull bars, snorkel, chequerplating etc. Really nice vehicles.
>>
>>I would buy one.
>
> me too, If I were in the market for a new 110.
>
> advantages over the 110:
>
> * wider rear door
> * no seat box in the front
> * wider rear load bed floor
> * one-piece body, rubber-mounted.
>
> differences:
>
> * Iveco turbo engine (125PS, IIRC) instead of LR
> * not sure what gearbox, I think it's the LT85.
>
> possible disadvantages:
>
> * leaf sprung (modern parabolics, though)
> * probably more depreciation.
> * doubtless some unique parts, especially lights, which will be more
> pricey.
> * they don't offer the 146PS engine variant. Or didn't, anyway. Dunno
> how hard it is to upgrade a 125 to 146.
>
I think the engine is the 2.8l development of the 300TDi.
--
Nothing is more precious than Independence and Liberty

>advantages over the 110:
>
>* wider rear door
>* no seat box in the front
>* wider rear load bed floor
>* one-piece body, rubber-mounted.

one-piece fibreglass roof as well.


>differences:
>
>* Iveco turbo engine (125PS, IIRC) instead of LR
>* not sure what gearbox, I think it's the LT85.
>

Not sure, but it's selectable 2x4 like the old series boxes. Santana
carried on with the 2x4 rather than go over to constand 4wd.

>possible disadvantages:
>
>* leaf sprung (modern parabolics, though)

Parabolics, give very comfortable ride, slight loss in axle
articulation over a coiler, but more reliable and robust (they don't
pop out of thier seats, for starters)

>* probably more depreciation.

Possibly, but modern cars depreciate so quickly anyway. Besides, if
you can get 25 years out of it like a series, then it seems good value
to me.

>* doubtless some unique parts, especially lights, which will be more pricey.

They're probably pretty standard if you know where to look. A matter
of finding an equivalent part fitted to a common car.

>* they don't offer the 146PS engine variant. Or didn't, anyway. Dunno how
>hard it is to upgrade a 125 to 146.

There'll be someone somewhere, there's quite a few companies offering
2.8 engines as drop-in replacements for the Tdi anyway. Probably a new
injector pump and a ECU re-map, as this is the norm for commercial
engines. You think Iveco make that many different engines?

Alex

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Tue, 08 Feb 2005 20:46:35 GMT, "Andrew Renshaw"
> <andrew.hart.i
> hate [email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>I came across a garage in Perth that only deals in them. It was about 15k
>>for a top of the range one that really was a very high spec Defender. This
>>included bull bars, snorkel, chequerplating etc. Really nice vehicles.
>>
>>I would buy one.
>
> me too, If I were in the market for a new 110.
>
> advantages over the 110:
>
> * wider rear door
> * no seat box in the front
> * wider rear load bed floor
> * one-piece body, rubber-mounted.
>
> differences:
>
> * Iveco turbo engine (125PS, IIRC) instead of LR
> * not sure what gearbox, I think it's the LT85.
>
> possible disadvantages:
>
> * leaf sprung (modern parabolics, though)
> * probably more depreciation.
> * doubtless some unique parts, especially lights, which will be more
> pricey.
> * they don't offer the 146PS engine variant. Or didn't, anyway. Dunno
> how
> hard it is to upgrade a 125 to 146.
>
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
> "Something there is that doesn't love a wall."
> Robert Frost (1874-1963)



Is that Perth in Western Australia if so can you drop me the contact info
via the group


Adam

Adam said while smoking some leaves and cuddling a sheep:

> Is that Perth in Western Australia if so can you drop me the contact info
> via the group
>
>
> Adam
>

Thats the real Perth in Scotland. Not an ex Penal Colony.

On or around Tue, 08 Feb 2005 22:26:52 +0000, Mark Dickinson
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> On or around Tue, 08 Feb 2005 20:46:35 GMT, "Andrew Renshaw"
>> <andrew.hart.i hate [email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>I came across a garage in Perth that only deals in them. It was about 15k
>>>for a top of the range one that really was a very high spec Defender. This
>>>included bull bars, snorkel, chequerplating etc. Really nice vehicles.
>>>
>>>I would buy one.
>>
>>
>I think the engine is the 2.8l development of the 300TDi.

nope, it's the Iveco 2.8, which is a pretty good engine.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Appearances: You don't really need make-up. Celebrate your authentic
face by frightening people in the street.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

Austin Shackles wrote:

> On or around Tue, 08 Feb 2005 22:26:52 +0000, Mark Dickinson
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>Austin Shackles wrote:
>>
>>> On or around Tue, 08 Feb 2005 20:46:35 GMT, "Andrew Renshaw"
>>> <andrew.hart.i hate [email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>>
>>>>I came across a garage in Perth that only deals in them. It was about
>>>>15k for a top of the range one that really was a very high spec
>>>>Defender. This included bull bars, snorkel, chequerplating etc. Really
>>>>nice vehicles.
>>>>
>>>>I would buy one.
>>>
>>>
>>I think the engine is the 2.8l development of the 300TDi.
>
> nope, it's the Iveco 2.8, which is a pretty good engine.
>
>
My mistake, I had got my wires crossed after looking at the International
Engines website and saw the Crosslander CL244 which looks at first glance
to be a PS10 but after looking at their website it obviously isn't. If
you're interested and can translate Brazilian check out
http://www.crosslander.com.br/internas/Default.asp

Mark
--
Nothing is more precious than Independence and Liberty

On or around Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:48:54 +0000, Mark Dickinson
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>>
>>
>My mistake, I had got my wires crossed after looking at the International
>Engines website and saw the Crosslander CL244 which looks at first glance
>to be a PS10 but after looking at their website it obviously isn't. If
>you're interested and can translate Brazilian check out
>http://www.crosslander.com.br/internas/Default.asp
>


looks a nice vehicle. It does indeed be using the tdi-derived 2.8, and an
easton gearbox. switchable 2x4H, 4x4H, 4x4L, independent front coil
suspension and rear beam axle on leaves. The videos use the tried and
trusted "tip the camera on it's ear to make the ground look slopy"
technique, as well, as evidence, the trees growing at 40 degrees off
vertical...

Wonder if it's derived from the Portaro Pampas, which was a cheap LR clone
from years ago?

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine... War is hell"
Gen. Sherman (1820-1891) Attr. words in Address at Michigan Military
Academy, 19 June 1879.

In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:48:54 +0000, Mark Dickinson
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >>
> >>
> >My mistake, I had got my wires crossed after looking at the International
> >Engines website and saw the Crosslander CL244 which looks at first glance
> >to be a PS10 but after looking at their website it obviously isn't. If
> >you're interested and can translate Brazilian check out
> >http://www.crosslander.com.br/internas/Default.asp
> >
>
>
> looks a nice vehicle. It does indeed be using the tdi-derived 2.8, and an
> easton gearbox. switchable 2x4H, 4x4H, 4x4L, independent front coil
> suspension and rear beam axle on leaves. The videos use the tried and
> trusted "tip the camera on it's ear to make the ground look slopy"
> technique, as well, as evidence, the trees growing at 40 degrees off
> vertical...
>
> Wonder if it's derived from the Portaro Pampas, which was a cheap LR clone
> from years ago?
>

Eaton gearbox? Arrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

On or around Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:42:44 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Eaton gearbox? Arrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!
>

well regarded for truck gearboxes, or used to be anyway. Hell of a lot of
trucks on the road with the "twin splitter" setup, which gets you 16 gears
with 4 lever positions (plus reverse) for them as don't know. There are 2
little switches on the gear lever, one is for low range and one for
half-gear split. Once you work out how it works, it's a good system.



--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Would to God that we might spend a single day really well!"
Thomas À Kempis (1380 - 1471) Imitation of Christ, I.xxiii.

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:42:44 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>Eaton gearbox? Arrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!
>>
>
> well regarded for truck gearboxes, or used to be anyway. Hell of a lot of
> trucks on the road with the "twin splitter" setup, which gets you 16 gears
> with 4 lever positions (plus reverse) for them as don't know. There are 2
> little switches on the gear lever, one is for low range and one for
> half-gear split. Once you work out how it works, it's a good system.
>


On the Eaton twin split you just had one switch with three positions
a dream to drive, use clutch to set off then once moving you don't need
it, if you have the knack,

When I worked in Holland there was a bloke with a DAF 95 'ginaaf' tipper
10x6 with the front 3 axles steering, he did a lot of quarry work so had an
additional tranferbox fitted to give him an extra range change
making 32 gears plus 8 reverse

--
Andy

SWB Series 2a ( dressed as a 3) "Bruce"
It's big, it's mean it's really, really green

In message <[email protected]>
Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> On or around Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:42:44 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> >Eaton gearbox? Arrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!
> >
>
> well regarded for truck gearboxes, or used to be anyway. Hell of a lot of
> trucks on the road with the "twin splitter" setup, which gets you 16 gears
> with 4 lever positions (plus reverse) for them as don't know. There are 2
> little switches on the gear lever, one is for low range and one for
> half-gear split. Once you work out how it works, it's a good system.
>
>

While working for Lucas Diesels (now Delphi diesels) I had
the missforture to spend many thousangs of miles in a
Volvo-White tractor unit during testing. All of the agancy
drivers we used felt the same - Eaton boxes, arrrrghhhhhhh!

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

On or around Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:57:12 -0000, "Andy.Smalley"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On the Eaton twin split you just had one switch with three positions
>a dream to drive, use clutch to set off then once moving you don't need
>it, if you have the knack,

could be. The one I used to shunt around had 2, one for hi-low and one for
split.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt"
(confound the men who have made our remarks before us.)
Aelius Donatus (4th Cent.) [St. Jerome, Commentary on Ecclesiastes]

Austin Shackles wrote:

> On or around Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:48:54 +0000, Mark Dickinson
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>>
>>>
>>My mistake, I had got my wires crossed after looking at the International
>>Engines website and saw the Crosslander CL244 which looks at first glance
>>to be a PS10 but after looking at their website it obviously isn't. If
>>you're interested and can translate Brazilian check out
>>http://www.crosslander.com.br/internas/Default.asp
>>
>
>
> looks a nice vehicle. It does indeed be using the tdi-derived 2.8, and an
> easton gearbox. switchable 2x4H, 4x4H, 4x4L, independent front coil
> suspension and rear beam axle on leaves. The videos use the tried and
> trusted "tip the camera on it's ear to make the ground look slopy"
> technique, as well, as evidence, the trees growing at 40 degrees off
> vertical...
>
> Wonder if it's derived from the Portaro Pampas, which was a cheap LR clone
> from years ago?
>
Did a Google and found an English (well American) site www.crosslander.com

Mark
--
Nothing is more precious than Independence and Liberty

Can anyone tell me when the SWB version of the PS10 is due out? Also is the
turning circle of the PS10 really 7m? My Lightweight can't manage that. What
puts me off a LWB is the crap turning circle. I had a 109 that turned like a
supertanker towing an aircraft carrier!

All the best

Jarvis

People Hi

they are actually Romanian made and designed.
The factory used to cooperate with Dacia which used to build Renault based
vehicles back in the Tchaoushesku days.

The vehicles that have been imported here in Greece were totally useless.
The Greek army had bought a few thousands of the 4X4 ARO that are the basis
of the crosslander. They had been paid with oranges and lemons and this is
maybe the reason why those vehicles were TOTAL LEMONS.

I hope the crosslander is much better built that those vehicles and if there
has been some input from private investors with good knowhow I can only say
that the design and basis is pretty good to start with and develop and
worthy and cheap alternative for basic offroading.

But my experience with the vehicles the crosslander is based at is
catastrophic.

Take care
Pantelis

"Mark Dickinson" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> Austin Shackles wrote:
>
> > On or around Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:48:54 +0000, Mark Dickinson
> > <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>My mistake, I had got my wires crossed after looking at the
International
> >>Engines website and saw the Crosslander CL244 which looks at first
glance
> >>to be a PS10 but after looking at their website it obviously isn't. If
> >>you're interested and can translate Brazilian check out
> >>http://www.crosslander.com.br/internas/Default.asp
> >>
> >
> >
> > looks a nice vehicle. It does indeed be using the tdi-derived 2.8, and
an
> > easton gearbox. switchable 2x4H, 4x4H, 4x4L, independent front coil
> > suspension and rear beam axle on leaves. The videos use the tried and
> > trusted "tip the camera on it's ear to make the ground look slopy"
> > technique, as well, as evidence, the trees growing at 40 degrees off
> > vertical...
> >
> > Wonder if it's derived from the Portaro Pampas, which was a cheap LR
clone
> > from years ago?
> >
> Did a Google and found an English (well American) site www.crosslander.com
>
> Mark
> --
> Nothing is more precious than Independence and Liberty

Mark Dickinson wrote:

> Austin Shackles wrote:
>
>> On or around Wed, 09 Feb 2005 19:48:54 +0000, Mark Dickinson
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>My mistake, I had got my wires crossed after looking at the International
>>>Engines website and saw the Crosslander CL244 which looks at first glance
>>>to be a PS10 but after looking at their website it obviously isn't. If
>>>you're interested and can translate Brazilian check out
>>>http://www.crosslander.com.br/internas/Default.asp
>>>
>>
>>
>> looks a nice vehicle. It does indeed be using the tdi-derived 2.8, and
>> an
>> easton gearbox. switchable 2x4H, 4x4H, 4x4L, independent front coil
>> suspension and rear beam axle on leaves. The videos use the tried and
>> trusted "tip the camera on it's ear to make the ground look slopy"
>> technique, as well, as evidence, the trees growing at 40 degrees off
>> vertical...
>>
>> Wonder if it's derived from the Portaro Pampas, which was a cheap LR
>> clone from years ago?
>>
> Did a Google and found an English (well American) site www.crosslander.com
>

According to that they're the old Romanian ARO cars - weren't they the lot
that used to be Dacia?

P.