Clutch spiral pins replacement (P38 1995 2.5 DT)

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Grrrrrr

Grrrrrr

Technician, Bodgit & Scarper Ltd
Full Member
Posts
19,270
Location
Buckinghamshire, UK. ('95 DT)
1995, 2.5 DT (manual diesel), 112k miles.

Ok chaps, this week is THE week to change the spiral pins on the clutch fork. I've just had a good read through RAVE and the following questions occur:

1) given I don't want to do this again for a LONG while is it worth replacing anything else in there? Clutch, maybe? Transmission fluid, presumably.

2) Is it really necessary to remove the starter motor? Cannot visualise the underside of the car but not entirely sure why it says to do this. Maybe it'll be clear once I'm under there.

3) It says to discard the 2 'O' rings in the oil cooler pipe adaptor to the gearbox. Is this the usual "replace the oil sump plug ring on every oil change" type advice? Guess probably worth it if I don't want to have it off again.

4) Similarly discarding the sealing washers from the gearbox and transfer box breathers.

5) Similarly (from starter motor removal section) the discarding of the dip-stick 'O' ring.

6) Anything else I need to be aware of?

Guess the answer for the 3 - 5 is probably look at them but I don't really want to be driving back and forth to Halfrauds or similar. This has to be turned around in a day as I've only got 1 day off.

Any advice gratefully received.

Cheers,

J
 
the starter will have to be ripped as the bolts holding it will have to be removed. only change the clutch if it needs replacing if you remove the clutch from the flywheel you will need a centering shaft or tool to put it back on . it would be advisable to change the orings going to the oilcooler pipes and dipstick ordinary o rings will do. when doing this job are you removing the engine to get in to the bell housing or removing the gearbox ? the dip stick does not have to be removed i have taken off gearboxws 4-5 times and never replaced the copper washers going to the breather pipes on the boxes but the copper washers will only be a few pence . when removing the gearbox or engine you must leave the bell housing on the engine and remove it after and put it on first . use the proper pins ordinary split pins wont last . when i did mine last year i put a small spot of weld on the shaft to give it extra strength and i had no probs . do not drill the holes and fit bolts as it weakens the shaft and shafts have split as a result of drilling . if you have a proper pit and gearbox jack its not very difficult but if you dont it would be easier remove the engine if you have a method of lifting it. you will need to be lucky to finish it in a day.
 
Thanks, that's spot on.

Tomorrow's the big day. It'd better be done in a day or I'm in trouble! It won't just be me so hopefully between us we'll have it done.

Was planning on removing the gearbox but taking as little as possible off unless it helps access. Past experience shows generally better to see what you're doing the first time and if that means taking it off then off it comes. Planning on using a four-poster and assorted jacks.

I'll let you know how we get on!
 
Hmmm. In fact, I'll make up a load of sandwiches and refreshments now, ready for the morning. That way I can just bolt them down when I'm desperate for a break without wasting too much time.

Cheers,

J
 
to remove the gearbox takes about 2hrs30mins exhaust off,driveshafts off,gearstick to be removed from inside the vehicle handbrake cable released inside the vehicle and pulled down oil pipes and wiring, and remove the transfer box , the 2 hrs 30min is with a pit all tools at hand and gearbox jack with bolt on adaptors to catch the transferbox and gearbox . engine removal takes just as long but its not a back breaker like the gearbox.
 
I think it is fair to say that for a first-timer muddling their way through it is a 2 day job! I got it apart (including the clutch) but ran out of time putting it back together.

Currently it is in about a thousand pieces on the garage floor!

4-poster made it almost pleasant. The centre console did eventually come out with a yank but only after a small bit of plastic snapped off. minimal damage there though. The gear-stick gaiter is in 2 parts. RAVE didn't mention that! Once you work that out there is a second ring inside that hold the gaiter to the transmission and THEN it comes off! That starter motor was a complete and utter bar-steward. The dowel was welded to the bell-housing. Much abuse at this stage of the removal. Easier to drop the transmission a little and come at it from underneath the car but over the top of the transmission rather farting about removing the dip-stick and trying to jam banana sized fingers in that tiny gap. Complicated by nuts on the back end of the bolts. Also, there was an 8mm bolt on the engine side of the bell housing (drivers side of the car) which I swear wasn't mentioned anywhere. That caught me out for a bit. The gearbox oil definitely needs replacing, unless it is supposed to look like old engine oil?! The gear-box drain bolt looked rather like a hedgehog but I guess that's normal. Other than that, no surprises other than some sticky bolts, one of which required a scaffold pole on the end of the wrench to break into motion. The clutch looked fairly new so looks like someone's been in there before. Says made in France on the friction-plate so presumably not original?

Those spiral pins really are the ****iest little pins I've ever seen. Rolled metal by the look of them. No wonder they snapped. Wondering if banging a nail up the inside of the replacement ones would cause any problems?

All in all a long day but quite enjoyable. Just hope I can remember how the hell it all goes back together. There seem to be an awful lot of pieces!
 
i actually did that once i tapped a roll pin into the spiral pins and it went again after a while people mightnt agree when i say that after you fit the roll pins put a spot of weld on each side securing the shaft to the fork and that will end your trouble
 
Going to try to get her back together tomorrow. Tempted to weld the whole bloody thing up! Will have another look tomorrow and make my mind up then. Usually I am very loath to change anything from its original spec. I just don't have the expertise. However, those pins do look crap.
 
Well, she's back together. Another long day yesterday. Finished at gone 8pm! A massive thanks required to Dave Marshall who let me use his tools and ramps etc. Couldn't have done it without him.

That transmission is a bugger to get lined up, isn't it? Easier with the clutch pedal down but still tight.

The clutch fork looked cast so I wasn't sure how to weld to it. In the end we banged the shaft from a pop rivet up each pin. I hope to hell it is enough!

Unfortunately I've got the exhaust a little misaligned and it is vibrating slightly on the chassis cross member. I'll have to straighten that out over the weekend. On the upsied the transmission fluid is now changed, all prop-shafts greased and the underside of the car has had a thorough service!

Thanks for the advice Sean and the offer of help. Really appreciated even is I didn't manage to follow it all in the end.

All the best,

J.
 
Yeah, it was! Think I was just knackered and rushing. Didn't finish till 8pm. On the upside while I was under there I spotted I'd forgotten to cable-tie up the clutch pipe where the clip half-broke on the bell-housing so did that too. She's running better than ever - really smooth - so I just hope to hell those pins hold!
 
I don’t have a hoist or a lift or ramps and neither did he according to an earlier post relating to this, may have rented something

I don’t know why I’m always so green oval about my gearbox, R380 should be bomb proof but the paranoia is there
 
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