Wheel Nuts

Guys,
I am putting a nice set of steelies onto my Defender in place of the alloys and when I went to fit them I realised the black steel nuts I ordered are the wrong size. Will have to send them back.
Now the alloy bolts have a bit of a collar on them as the alloy wheel is thicker.
While they don't look great, do you reckon I am okay to use these nuts torqued up to the right level until the the correct black steel nuts arrive?
As I say, the don't look great but they seem to grip down on the wheels okay.
Couple of pics attached.
Thanks for your comments.
Jock

On searching further I found one chap saying that if they were the alloy nuts that are chamfered at the bottom (which these are) then you can use them as the chamfer will center the wheel ok, but obviously just not recommended as the correct type should always be used when safety's involved.

As a rule the steel wheels centre around the nuts. While alloys are hubcentric and centre around the hub. The wheelnuts for steel wheels are there to centre the rims. While the alloy wheel nuts are there to simply hold the wheel on.

That makes sense and explains why some alloy wheel nuts have a completely flat base. I found some nuts for sale which are chamfered and labelled "suitable for steel or alloy wheels". I reckon I'll be fine, certainly for a short while.

Don't even think about taking a chance with half way house wheel nuts. Certainly don't use the alloy wheel nuts. Be patient and wait until you have proper steel wheel nuts. Otherwise, there's a good chance you'll kill yourself or, even worse, other people!

Ditto, don't take the chance of a wheel coming off.

Col

Yeah, that's what I decided in the end up. Originals are back on until the new nuts arrive. I surprise myself sometimes at juat how sensible I am.
Cheers

When I'm spannering on the Landy a lot of fixings I tighten by experience. Wheel nuts I always use the torque wrench. There's different torques for steel and alloys.

Personally, I always use a torque wrench on wheel nuts. People don't appreciate just how much force you can put on a nut when you use a large lever, and they tend to overestimate how tight wheel nuts need to be. There's nothing worse than having to change a wheel and putting your back out because someone else has just gone mental with a pneumatic drill or breaker when putting your wheel back on.

So team, got the wheels on today with the proper steel nuts and lockers from LR Parts. They fit lovely and all torqued up nicely to 100psi and all wheels (Insa Turbo) set to 100psi. I get a little bit of road whine as you do with such a chunky tyre, but not noticeable on a Defender anyway. Ride quality surprisingly is notably better than the worn-out AT2's that were on it, but I think previous owner had them over-inflated.

Only two things concerning me, which I don't think are a problem from searching these forums and the web, but wouldn't mind some comments.
1. When the nuts are torqued up (in star turn of course) then end of the stud is about flush with the nut, it doesn't protrude at all. While all the nut thread seems to be used, please tell me I wasn't supposed to change the wheel studs as well???
2. There is a 3-4mm gap between the modular hub and the axle. These are definitely RR Classic/Defender/Disco 1 wheels. From reading, this is common, and it's the tapered nuts that centre and hold the wheel. Anyone think differently?

As always, pic attached. Alloy wheel hubs were coated with quite a bit of copperslip.

Thanks all.
Jock

BigJock2005 said:

They fit lovely and all torqued up nicely to 100psi and all wheels (Insa Turbo) set to 100psi.

Click to expand...

Guessing that is a typo...LOL.

Cheers

No, I used my foot pump... those nuts are exactly 100psi. I used a spanner on the tyres and then with a moley grip hammered them up to 100Nm.

neilly said:

Guessing that is a typo...LOL.

Cheers

Click to expand...

I hope your guess is right !

Kwakerman said:

I hope your guess is right !

Click to expand...

I pray that your hope that my guess is right...........is right..........but who knows??

Cheers

Okay, okay, I am a tool.
Nuts torqued to 100Nm.
All tyres to 30psi.

That sounds a bit more realistic!

Kwakerman said:

That sounds a bit more realistic!

Click to expand...

Phew

However, chaps, any thoughts on the original points appreciated... particularly the space between the axle hub and the wheel hub...

I'm still lost off with hammering mole grips. FFS.
As for the wheel nuts. When I served my time, admittedly a long time ago, we were taught at least a thread and a half had to protrude beyond a nut. So, I wouldn't have taken it out on the road like that.
I also can't understand the gap between the hub and your syeel wheel.

I think the bottom line is that these wheel are obviously designed to fit a number of vehicles, not just the RRC and Defender. As a result the hole in the center will allow the wheel to also fit a vehicle with a larger hub. My question was whether that gap affects the load-bearing capability of the wheel - i.e. is it safe.
From all the reading I have managed to do it seems to me there's a clear difference between alloy and steel wheels in the way they bear load.
Alloys do bear load via the hub and are machined or sometimes slightly tapered to fit the hub closely like a collar. Bolts used on alloys have a flat collar which tightens down onto the alloy wheel holding the wheel firmly onto the hub.
Steel wheels are held directly onto the face of the hub rather than around it, and the holes on the steel wheel are slightly tapered. This is why it is essential to use correctly sized lug nuts which will center the wheel properly as it is tightened down onto the hub face. Since steel has a higher absolute tensile strength than alloy and and is considerably less brittle, the load is borne by the steel of the rim itself rather than the collar of the hub.
Therefore I don't think the gap matters so long as correctly-fitting lug nuts are used, and they are kept at the right torque. They do seem to need regular checking, maybe because steel expands and contracts to a greater degree than alloy which can have a loosening effect.
Finally, on the threads: I agree with you that it would be good practice to have visible threads showing, but if you look closely you will see that all threads on the lug nuts are engaged. Were any not engaged, or any threads visible inside the nut then I would have to reconsider.
I'll pop round my landy man and ask his experience, he's seen pretty much everything. I'll also remove after a couple of hundred miles and check the holes to see if there's been any detectable movement of the wheel.