warm start problem

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jorjio_k

jorjio_k

Active Member
Posts
490
Location
Lebanon,middle east
Hello gents;
I have posted in several occasions about my rangie warm start problem but couldn't find the cure,i have changed my fuel pressure regulator thinking that it was the culprit but didn't cure it,ecm was checked using autologic "no faults".
in the morning on cold starts no problems at all,from the first time.when left for an hour after driving and trying to restart,the starter sounds like it is weak but the battery is new and is getting recharged properly,if restarting after 2 hours the starter doesn't sound week,cranking normal but rangie wouldn't start,after several attempts it starts then sometimes i get gearbox fault after starting, sometimes nothing (maybe coz of cranking alot?).
i have seen several mechanics,one of them said the 8 injectors need replacing,one said the fuel regulator (which was replaced),one said the non return valve in the fuel pump and suggested replacing the pump!the last opinion sounded the most preferable to me but can a bad non return fuel valve in the fuel pump,allow the car to start normaly in the morning?really it is very annoying and embarrassing,if the car is left 4 3 hours after driving it,it restarts normal.can a duff crank pos sensor do that even if no faults found.
pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee help me solve this mysterious problem,alot of people have it also and on their threads they just disappear when they fix it and i am even emailing people with similar threads (some aged years ago) but no reply.
P.S:rangie is not running rich,and no faults found,this pro occurs when the temp gauge is in the blue zone on restarting.
 
Hi again Jorjio

I wouldn't have thought all 8 injectors needed replacing unless you've done a starship mileage. I'd also question whether a duff non return valve in the pump would give you the symptoms you're getting. I think I would dismiss that one.
I have a problem with my old 3.9 where it'll start, run for a few minutes and then stop. If I disconnect the MAF, it will keep on running but if I then stop it, it won't restart (with or without the MAF connected) until the next morning when it's stone cold. I'm pretty sure I've seen similar threads on here where people are having running problems and disconnecting the MAF will occasionally allow the engine to run better (therebye pointing to a duff MAF). However, people have said that the engine won't start with the MAF disconnected. What I'm rambling on about is I wonder whether you have a MAF that's playing up and it's acting as though it's disconnected until it cools down enough to become operational again. Unfortunately, the only sure way to tell is by substitution. Worth a thought? (Or in desperation unplug the MAF and see if it starts then???)
 
Derek Ward said:
Hi again Jorjio

I wouldn't have thought all 8 injectors needed replacing unless you've done a starship mileage. I'd also question whether a duff non return valve in the pump would give you the symptoms you're getting. I think I would dismiss that one.
I have a problem with my old 3.9 where it'll start, run for a few minutes and then stop. If I disconnect the MAF, it will keep on running but if I then stop it, it won't restart (with or without the MAF connected) until the next morning when it's stone cold. I'm pretty sure I've seen similar threads on here where people are having running problems and disconnecting the MAF will occasionally allow the engine to run better (therebye pointing to a duff MAF). However, people have said that the engine won't start with the MAF disconnected. What I'm rambling on about is I wonder whether you have a MAF that's playing up and it's acting as though it's disconnected until it cools down enough to become operational again. Unfortunately, the only sure way to tell is by substitution. Worth a thought? (Or in desperation unplug the MAF and see if it starts then???)
Click to expand...
Hi derek,ur ok?
Well it is realy driving me mad,the mechanic even turned the ignition to pos 2 then 1 for several times in a row then he cranked her up and she fired up,he said look how the fuel pressure built it up that's y it fired.
 
sorry dident red all befor

have you looked at the fuel pump relay i have ha a problem with other car marks where the conections inside the relay goes bad .
then i have to re weld the terminals or get a new .

somtimes i helps move it an se if it get working .
i is worth a shot
 
Fine thanks Jorjio - Ok, I can see why the mechanic would come to that conclusion but it wouldn't explain why it it fires up ok when it's cold UNLESS the ECU runs the fuel pump for a longer period when it thinks the engine is cold than it does when the engine is hot. I suppose it could make sense to be honest. All it says in Rave is "...the relay falls out after a few seconds, precisely when determined by the ECM" Not a lot of use to us here.
One way of testing that would be to jumper out the fuel pump relay RL12 on contacts 3 & 5 (to make it run continuously) and see if it starts normally then.
 
sarstad said:
sorry dident red all befor

have you looked at the fuel pump relay i have ha a problem with other car marks where the conections inside the relay goes bad .
then i have to re weld the terminals or get a new .

somtimes i helps move it an se if it get working .
i is worth a shot
Click to expand...
thanks,but a bad relay will cause it not to start in a lot of times,it seems that the starting problem is intermitent,at a precise engine temperature only,and that wont explain the abnnormal sound of the starter in a precise moment also,i have read that when the starter do like that,the cps is acting up,i don't want to start replacing things without being sure.i have even swaped the relay with a new one.
 
Derek Ward said:
Fine thanks Jorjio - Ok, I can see why the mechanic would come to that conclusion but it wouldn't explain why it it fires up ok when it's cold UNLESS the ECU runs the fuel pump for a longer period when it thinks the engine is cold than it does when the engine is hot. I suppose it could make sense to be honest. All it says in Rave is "...the relay falls out after a few seconds, precisely when determined by the ECM" Not a lot of use to us here.
One way of testing that would be to jumper out the fuel pump relay RL12 on contacts 3 & 5 (to make it run continuously) and see if it starts normally then.
Click to expand...
cheers derek,when in pos 2 the pump run for few seconds,when cold or hot it is the same,it is not running more time when cold,it shouldn't run more than that derek,it is the regulator that presurize fuel not the pump,the pump only sucks fuel,and these 2 seconds are more than enough to send the fuel to the fuel line.i have a feeling that it is electrical,it is a sensor,a duff air mass sensor will cause the gerbox fault i am with u with that diagnosis,also a bad cps will cause the starter to sound weak although batt is good,also the coolant temp sensor as well as the fuel temp sensor,which one is it that is the question,what makes it a dilema is that the sensors are not registering a fault,as for leaking injectors,i believe that it isn't the case coz it is not overfueling and running rich.plugs have 5000 kms on them,leads are good,coils are good.i was searching on rangerovers.net,there are several threads regarding this issue,but the owners just disapperead when they fixed their.
this issue is the hardest issue to diagnose,i have been suffering since june with it,i am depressed now:mad:
 
jorjio_k said:
thanks,but a bad relay will cause it not to start in a lot of times,it seems that the starting problem is intermitent,at a precise engine temperature only,and that wont explain the abnnormal sound of the starter in a precise moment also,i have read that when the starter do like that,the cps is acting up,i don't want to start replacing things without being sure.i have even swaped the relay with a new one.
Click to expand...


i onny had the problem with the relay when i was warm, becauise the ralaygets hot and then the weld lets go .

a nother thing i have had a sim problem with a cosworth an on that on we changed the temt sencer to the ecu .
i dont know if there is to on a 3,9 rr but offen ther is.
try to measure the recistion in the sencor, and are ther a big dif it migt be it
 
Datatek said:
Starter motor if the cranking speed is too low it won't start. Otherwise check all the relays and the fusebox.
Click to expand...

Cheers data.the fusebox was replaced along with relays.when the starter sounds weak the car will crank and fire.when the starter sounds normal and when engine is warm it will crank over and over than eventualy it will come 2 life along with gearbox fault.then i switch off and on the engine with no pro.the weak sound of the starter is not alws present.wht abt the sensors?wht abt the air temp sensor in the airbox,when it is screwed wht r its symptoms?does it register a fault?
 
Derek Ward said:
Did you try jumpering the fuel pump relay as I suggested earlier?
Click to expand...
hi.
no derek not yet as it was dark outside,so i must put a wire in the empty slots of the relay 3 and 5 and having the pump run and starting the car will prove what?a duff pump?can it be duff even if it isn't cuting out?although i noticed that the pump while the car is running has a faint whine,is it normal to whine a little bit,especialy if the fuel gauge is on the half mark and a little bit lower?
 
If it's not starting as it should and you then pull the fuel pump relay and jumper it so the pumps's running all the time, If it then starts OK, it confirms the mechanics diagnosis of not enough fuel pressure possibly due to it draining back into the tank. If it doesn't start, you know it's not that and to look elsewhere. At least it might narrow it down.
I don't think it's normal to whine, no. I can never hear mine at all. But my hearing isn't the best.
 
update**************
i found out that the po has squeezed the fuel return pipe in the fuel rails,today i have removed the metal ring that was squeezing it and i am testing it,it seems the fuel is returning to the fuel tank and not through the regulator,if the return pipe was squeezed how can fuel still be returning to the tank?although we put the autologic and had a real time readings,the sensors are excellent no spiking at all no strange things,that leaves fuel,at least it is narrowed now,next thing to do is replacing the pump,i won't do that untill she stranded me on the roads.my question is this squeezer on return fuel line, and if the return was blocked the car will still be runnig?wht will happen if the return fuel line was completly blocked?
 
Last edited:
we are getting somewhere now.good good good.this ring is removed now,i will wait and c,if it was there it was for a reason,maybe an escape route of replacing he pump,or ignorance from the po not knowing that rangie have a fuel regulator that builds up pressure and prevent fuel returning.dunno
 
jorjio_k said:
we are getting somewhere now.good good good.this ring is removed now,i will wait and c,if it was there it was for a reason,maybe an escape route of replacing he pump,or ignorance from the po not knowing that rangie have a fuel regulator that builds up pressure and prevent fuel returning.dunno
Click to expand...

I suppose that could be a possibility, assuming the regulator failed in such a way that all the fuel went to the return, blocking the return would give full pump pressure at the injectors:eek:
 
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