Vegetable oil v's Diesel

This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:25:47 +0100, "Huw"
> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>>"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> On 2005-10-12, Mick <mtredwell@> wrote:
>>>
>> but if you're going to do that
>>> then you might as well get diesel delivered in 1,000 litre quantities
>>> at wholesale prices, which are about 20-30p cheaper than pump prices,
>>> making it only slightly more expensive than veg oil. If you want to
>>> do some tree hugging, you could probably get biodiesel delivered in
>>> 1,000 litre quantities for similar prices.
>>>
>>
>>I buy derv in quantities of between 2500 and 7000 litres at a time and can
>>assure you that while there is sometimes a saving of 2-3p, NOT 20-30p,
>>there
>>is also the probability that a loss can be made when fuel prices fall.
>>I do not know where you get your fuel price from but it cannot be anywhere
>>legal.
>
> 's what i was thinking. Last time I tried pricing bulk diesel, it
> would've
> been cheaper to drive 30 miles to the elchaepo supermarket. When I
> pointed
> this out to the supplier, they said that it'd be cheaper for them to drive
> their tanker tyhere and get it filled up, presuming it were possible.
> Their
> price for buying 10,000 litres at a time was more than the elcheapo was
> selling it for.
>

You and I know this but Ian lives in some other dimension. On average I save
about 2ppl or less.

Huw


 
On 2005-10-13, Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> jolly good. I've emailed the local bloke; will see what happens. 200l
> would last less than a fortnight here, so only viable in quantity, or a
> 1000l one might be more cost-effective. Or go and fetch say 4x200 at a time
> in a trailer.

That's what I'm thinking, I'm a pipe smoker and there's a good pipe
tobacco shop near one of the suppliers, so tootle off in the landy to
get my fuel and my smokes at the same time once every few weeks! I
reckon 200l will last me almost a month at my current consumption.
Depending on shape, I'd probably fit 2x200 in the back of the landy,
whether I'd be able to get it out again at the other end or not is
another matter. Some chap mentioned 45l drums though, which might be
better.

I'll give them a bell on Monday, do let us know what happens re your
enquiries.

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert
 
On 2005-10-13, Huw <hedydd> wrote:

> You will be a very disappointed.

I'll call them tomorrow to check, I'm pretty sure I asked them for the
proper consumer prices, we'll see what they say.

> Sounds very much like you know-it-all but know f*** all at the end of the
> day. *You* do the ringing. I actually do it on a regular basis.

There's no need for any of that, it's perfectly possible to say to
someone that you think they're wrong without dropping rapidly into
insults.

Also you can get DERV-equivalent for 70p/l, and that's no
modification, no worries about rubber parts stuff from suppliers
already quoted in this thread, perhaps you could try them. I'm hoping
that there won't be any hidden gotchas but others are already doing it
so fingers crossed...

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert
 

"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2005-10-13, Huw <hedydd> wrote:
>
>> You will be a very disappointed.
>
> I'll call them tomorrow to check, I'm pretty sure I asked them for the
> proper consumer prices, we'll see what they say.
>
>> Sounds very much like you know-it-all but know f*** all at the end of the
>> day. *You* do the ringing. I actually do it on a regular basis.
>
> There's no need for any of that, it's perfectly possible to say to
> someone that you think they're wrong without dropping rapidly into
> insults.

Appologies. You are wrong though as you will find tomorrow. Even considering
adding VAT on the distributor price, this will add less than 15ppl. The
price you will be quoted will be to tenths of a pence per litre and usually
varies daily with the market rather than in bigger though less regular
amounts at the pump. Nevertheless there will not be much in it. I would not
be surprised if it was within 3ppl either way.

>
> Also you can get DERV-equivalent for 70p/l, and that's no
> modification, no worries about rubber parts stuff from suppliers
> already quoted in this thread, perhaps you could try them. I'm hoping
> that there won't be any hidden gotchas but others are already doing it
> so fingers crossed...
>

I would not risk anything except the best quality diesel in a common rail or
other high pressure system due to reliability and repair cost issues. In
fact BMW who use Bosch systems in common with many others, specifically
advise against biodiesel even as a blend.

Huw


 

"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2005-10-13, Huw <hedydd> wrote:
>
>> I buy derv in quantities of between 2500 and 7000 litres at a time and
>> can
>> assure you that while there is sometimes a saving of 2-3p, NOT 20-30p,
>> there
>> is also the probability that a loss can be made when fuel prices fall.
>
> Hmm, sounds like you need to get a better supplier ;-)
>

Try www.petroldirect.com ;-)









Huw
of course this site is there to catch the gullible possibly specifically for
this situation. If you think petrol can be delivered by post direct through
your letterbox then oh boy. If you think the site is genuine have a look at
the legal statement.


 
On 2005-10-13, Huw <hedydd> wrote:

> Try www.petroldirect.com ;-)

Heh. "Sorry there appears to be a problem with our ordering
system".. Damnit I want the 1 litre of petrol I ordered!

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert
 
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:27:05 +0100, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On 2005-10-13, Huw <hedydd> wrote:
>>
>>> I buy derv in quantities of between 2500 and 7000 litres at a time and
>>> can
>>> assure you that while there is sometimes a saving of 2-3p, NOT 20-30p,
>>> there
>>> is also the probability that a loss can be made when fuel prices fall.
>>
>> Hmm, sounds like you need to get a better supplier ;-)
>>
>> The people I was asking were my local kerosene heating oil supplier,
>
>Ah! So you have no actual experience of these fantastic savings.
>
>
>
>
>> they also supply DERV in 1,000 litre quantities, when the last fuel
>> protests were on the price per litre, duty paid, was 60-something
>> pence while the pump price was 20p or so greater. I've asked from
>> time to time since, and it's more or less stayed at the same price
>> below the forecourt price.
>
>Forgive me for saying that this is rubbish. It has just dawned on me that
>you have not worked out yet that when a fuel distributor qutes a price for
>derv it is always exclusive of VAT while the pump price is always inclusive.
>
>

70-75p per litre including duty and VAT for the biodiesel. The
'gotcha' is that the page was last updated Dec 2003...

<from biopower website>
Bio-power V100 road fuel

This fuel is designed and made as a direct substitute for normal
diesel. It will run in any compression ignition engine without any
form of modification. You do not need alternative fuel tanks or fuel
line switches etc. Just pour it into your tank and drive away!

It is a darker colour than derv, and it is more sticky if you spill it
down the side of your car. When burning it smells totally different
to derv, more like the appetising smell from a fish and chip shop.

This fuel is made by our additive blending process, and it is not
Rapeseed Methyl Ester (RME), in which the fat stock is
transesterified, thereby making a by-product of glycerol. Our unique
process modifies the fat by separation, blending and polishing to
ensure the optimal burn characteristics in a broad range of engines.
Our method does not use any mineral chemicals, or create any waste
by-products. In our fuel the entire energy audit of the fat stock is
made available for use as a fuel. Our V100 fuel out performs both
Derv and Bio-diesel. This fuel can be mixed with ULSD, and any of our
other V series fuels.

Bio-power V100 currently costs 70p to 75p per litre which includes
Excise Duty at a rate of 27.1 p per litre and VAT.

It can be delivered by most Bio-power Local Agents, and we recommend
private customers use our 200 litre storage containers which can be
installed in your garage, and from which the fuel can be gravity fed
to the vehicle. It is also sold in 1,000 litre containers, called
IBCs.

</quote>
--

Tim Hobbs

'58 Series 2 88" aka "Stig"
'03 Volvo V70
 
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 22:48:31 +0100, Huw wrote:

>> Hmm, sounds like you need to get a better supplier ;-)
>
> Try www.petroldirect.com ;-)

Great site until I saw this:

"If you drive a huge four wheel drive (e.g. Discovery, Shogun, BMW X5)
then you are a sinner against the environment and other road users.
Buy something less stupid."

Even with white diesel at 55p/l they ain't getting my business.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
On 2005-10-13, Tim Hobbs <[email protected]> wrote:

> 70-75p per litre including duty and VAT for the biodiesel. The
> 'gotcha' is that the page was last updated Dec 2003...

Didn't notice that, hopefully, given that in the FAQ they say that
they try to keep it at about 5p to 10p cheaper than normal diesel,
with any luck (fingers crossed) it'll be cheap enough to make it worth
trying out. I'll phone them on Monday.

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert
 
I thought that I'd better chip in again!

I paid £145 for 200 litres of bio diesel (all duties paid). It was
recommended that I fit a heater in the circuit, that was £60 diy and
very simple. You also need to fit a filter as the bio-diesel tends to
pick up the crud from the tank that the diesel doesn't.

I am running a one tank system. The first tankfull should be a 40/60
(change filter), the second 70/30 (change filter) and after that 90/10
(the 10% is required to give enough fluidity to start and the filter
should be OK from that point on).

I believe that you can get electric pre-heaters in which case you can
run 100% bio. It is also possible that if you know that you are going
on a long run to fill up just before the run with nearly 100% bio as
what is in the system will start you off OK. It just needs a bit of
planning.

My first motorway trip will be tomorrow. This stuff is supposed to
improve performance (as it naturally oils the cylinders). I'll let you
know how I get on.

Richard (my local supplier) was saying that they have recently
converted a very modern Audi with no hassles. I expect that he'll
update the website in due course.

Cheers

Peter

Veggie 110 CSW
Hillman Imp
Rover P4 110

 

"puffernutter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I thought that I'd better chip in again!

***I paid £145 for 200 litres of bio diesel (all duties paid). It was
recommended that I fit a heater in the circuit, that was £60 diy and
very simple. You also need to fit a filter as the bio-diesel tends to
pick up the crud from the tank that the diesel doesn't.

I am running a one tank system. The first tankfull should be a 40/60
(change filter), the second 70/30 (change filter) and after that 90/10
(the 10% is required to give enough fluidity to start and the filter
should be OK from that point on).

I believe that you can get electric pre-heaters in which case you can
run 100% bio. ***

I think you confuse veg oil with biodiesel. Proper bio-diesel is around 10%
treated veg oil and 90% petrochemical. It can be used with none of the
effing about mentioned above. Even this is specifically warned against in
BMW operator manuals, certainly my X5 diesel.

Huw


 
On 2005-10-13, Huw <hedydd> wrote:

> Appologies. You are wrong though as you will find tomorrow. Even
> considering adding VAT on the distributor price, this will add less
> than 15ppl. The price you will be quoted will be to tenths of a
> pence per litre and usually varies daily with the market rather than
> in bigger though less regular amounts at the pump. Nevertheless
> there will not be much in it. I would not be surprised if it was
> within 3ppl either way.

Nuts, have just phoned them and they quoted me two prices, and the
with-vat price does indeed come out at about 2p cheaper. I asked them
if this had changed from about a year ago and it hadn't, so I checked
my spreadsheet from a year back that I'd used to do the calculations
on whether it was worth me getting a tank in my garden, I'd correctly
calculated the difference as being just 2-5p tops back then. Quite
why I spouted all that claptrap about 20p cheaper I don't know, given
that a year ago I knew it wasn't true. I would blame old age but I'm
only 34 or so.

> I would not risk anything except the best quality diesel in a common
> rail or other high pressure system due to reliability and repair
> cost issues. In fact BMW who use Bosch systems in common with many
> others, specifically advise against biodiesel even as a blend.

According to bio-fuel.co.uk, biodiesel is a strong solvent that
dissolves rubber parts gradually (I've seen this stated on many
bio-fuel sites) and strips the coatings off the insides of fuel tanks,
blocking filters (don't remember seeing that one before). They say
this is due to the way it's made, and as such they don't recommend its
use. They reckon their main product is different as it's made in a
different manner without the resulting solvent properties, not being a
chemist I can't verify any of it, but I only intend to keep the Audi
for another 2-3 years anyway so I'll give it a spin and see what
happens.

They also do a range of other fuels for different applications such as
generators and industrial plants, some in solid form, but their main
product is something I'd like to try out. Their site doesn't inspire
the greatest of confidence but then nothing short of recommendations
from car manufacturers would, and that's not likely to happen even if
a non-petrochemical fuel was perfect for use.

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert
 
OK, my terminology was loose, sorry.

I have purchased (as I said in earlier posts) bio power V100 Fuel,
described as below:

"Bio-power V100 vehicle fuel, which can be used as a direct substitute
for DERV, or ULSD,
in unmodified compression ignition engines. This is our cheapest fuel
and the most popular.
It is not made from 100% organic materials, but includes some mineral
content that would
otherwise present a waste disposal problem. This fuel is available from
all Local Agents"

It would seem to be a semi half-way house between pure vegetable oil
and bio-diesel.

A very modern Audi was recently converted with relative ease to use the
V100 fuel. I'll try and get some more details.

Cheers

Peter

 
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> On 2005-10-13, Huw <hedydd> wrote:
>>
>>> Try www.petroldirect.com ;-)
>>
>> Heh. "Sorry there appears to be a problem with our ordering
>> system".. Damnit I want the 1 litre of petrol I ordered!
>>
>
> Neither you nor Dave scrolled down past my sig then?
>
> Huw
>
I like the bit about the bio fuels especially Vin Diesel available "in red, white, pink or sparkling"
I must admit it had me going for a while

Andy

SWB Series 2a ( dressed as a 3) "Bruce"
It's big, it's mean it's really, really green


 
On 2005-10-14, Huw <hedydd> wrote:

> Neither you nor Dave scrolled down past my sig then?

Yes I did but I wanted to see at which point they crapped out with an
excuse. I certainly wouldn't go so far as to put my credit card
number in.

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert
 
On 2005-10-14, puffernutter <[email protected]> wrote:

> A very modern Audi was recently converted with relative ease to use the
> V100 fuel. I'll try and get some more details.

I thought the V100 was the one that needed no modifications? That's
what they say on the products page, and only start talking about
modifications (heat exchanger and in some cases special igniter) when
you look at the V107 and above fuels.

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert
 

"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2005-10-13, Huw <hedydd> wrote:
>
>> Appologies. You are wrong though as you will find tomorrow. Even
>> considering adding VAT on the distributor price, this will add less
>> than 15ppl. The price you will be quoted will be to tenths of a
>> pence per litre and usually varies daily with the market rather than
>> in bigger though less regular amounts at the pump. Nevertheless
>> there will not be much in it. I would not be surprised if it was
>> within 3ppl either way.
>
> Nuts, have just phoned them and they quoted me two prices, and the
> with-vat price does indeed come out at about 2p cheaper. I asked them
> if this had changed from about a year ago and it hadn't, so I checked
> my spreadsheet from a year back that I'd used to do the calculations
> on whether it was worth me getting a tank in my garden, I'd correctly
> calculated the difference as being just 2-5p tops back then. Quite
> why I spouted all that claptrap about 20p cheaper I don't know, given
> that a year ago I knew it wasn't true. I would blame old age but I'm
> only 34 or so.

Well, I suppose you got there in the end and if I was more inclined to
suffer fools gladly you would likely still be spouting 'till Christmas. :)
I dread to think what another ten years will do to you :-(


>
>> I would not risk anything except the best quality diesel in a common
>> rail or other high pressure system due to reliability and repair
>> cost issues. In fact BMW who use Bosch systems in common with many
>> others, specifically advise against biodiesel even as a blend.
>
> According to bio-fuel.co.uk, biodiesel is a strong solvent that
> dissolves rubber parts gradually (I've seen this stated on many
> bio-fuel sites) and strips the coatings off the insides of fuel tanks,
> blocking filters (don't remember seeing that one before). They say
> this is due to the way it's made, and as such they don't recommend its
> use. They reckon their main product is different as it's made in a
> different manner without the resulting solvent properties, not being a
> chemist I can't verify any of it, but I only intend to keep the Audi
> for another 2-3 years anyway so I'll give it a spin and see what
> happens.

Good luck.


>
> They also do a range of other fuels for different applications such as
> generators and industrial plants, some in solid form, but their main
> product is something I'd like to try out. Their site doesn't inspire
> the greatest of confidence but then nothing short of recommendations
> from car manufacturers would, and that's not likely to happen even if
> a non-petrochemical fuel was perfect for use.
>

I can assure you that rapemethylesther is extensively used in some areas and
some engine manufacturers and car manufacturers do not have any objection to
its use in specific vehicles. No modern high pressure common-rail type
engines are in this category AFAIK.

Huw


 
On 2005-10-14, Huw <hedydd> wrote:

> Well, I suppose you got there in the end and if I was more inclined to
> suffer fools gladly you would likely still be spouting 'till Christmas. :)
> I dread to think what another ten years will do to you :-(

I've been scatter-brained since my youth, thankfully years of abuse
from all manner of chemicals don't seem to have made me any worse.
Old age tends to make people more intolerant though so I'd suggest you
make the most of your friends now hehehe...

> I can assure you that rapemethylesther is extensively used in some
> areas and some engine manufacturers and car manufacturers do not
> have any objection to its use in specific vehicles. No modern high
> pressure common-rail type engines are in this category AFAIK.

It's the common road-going engines that my cynicism will not allow me
to believe will gain "boi-fuel compatible" stickers until the
petro-chemical lot have less influence.

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert
 

"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2005-10-14, Huw <hedydd> wrote:
>
>> Well, I suppose you got there in the end and if I was more inclined to
>> suffer fools gladly you would likely still be spouting 'till Christmas.
>> :)
>> I dread to think what another ten years will do to you :-(
>
> I've been scatter-brained since my youth, thankfully years of abuse
> from all manner of chemicals don't seem to have made me any worse.
> Old age tends to make people more intolerant though so I'd suggest you
> make the most of your friends now hehehe...

I'm a pussycat really. If intollerance is what you want, you should meet the
Mrs.

>
>> I can assure you that rapemethylesther is extensively used in some
>> areas and some engine manufacturers and car manufacturers do not
>> have any objection to its use in specific vehicles. No modern high
>> pressure common-rail type engines are in this category AFAIK.
>
> It's the common road-going engines that my cynicism will not allow me
> to believe will gain "boi-fuel compatible" stickers until the
> petro-chemical lot have less influence.
>

While it is cheaper to dig oil out of the ground than to grow it there is no
contest and little effort will be made to accommodate a minority fuel. It
needs a boost from Governments by not raising the same taxes on bio so the
selling price will be similar to dino juice. They will not forgo much tax
income. It is not in their nature.

Huw


 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

WDV
Brake pivot shaft lubrication - 1971 Land Rover Series III
Replies
3
Views
638
steve2286w
steve2286w
E
Hooks joint
Replies
0
Views
347
Eggusone
E
R
Oil Service Interval problem
Replies
7
Views
1K
Mark Piercy
Mark Piercy
G
2.25/2.5 Diesel Oil Pumps ?
Replies
2
Views
946
grewth
G
E
Freelander 1 Fitting new crankshaft rear oil seal and oil sump gasket to L series
Replies
1
Views
1K
GrumpyGel
GrumpyGel
Back
Top