vacuum for brake servo on a 2.25 diesel

If i wanted to fit a brake servo to a 2.25 diesel powered landy where
would i get a vacuum feed from?

My 2.5D has a vacuum pump, but you cant fit one of them to the 2.25 as
the fuel dissy is in way!

Can you get a belt driven pump? or is there a better way?

Is there any reason why you cant tap the itake manifold on the diesel
and run a vacuum feed off that? I'm assuming that there must be vacuum
in there but i have never seen it done this way so im guessing there
must be some reason why not.

In message <[email protected]>
Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:

> If i wanted to fit a brake servo to a 2.25 diesel powered landy where
> would i get a vacuum feed from?
>

The original was from the inlet manifold via a reservoir.

> My 2.5D has a vacuum pump, but you cant fit one of them to the 2.25 as
> the fuel dissy is in way!
>
> Can you get a belt driven pump? or is there a better way?

It could be done - a bit of poking round scrapyards and a spot
of bracket fabrication shold do the trick. You'll most
likely need a new front pulley, but just making the fan
belt (even) longer may work.

>
> Is there any reason why you cant tap the itake manifold on the diesel
> and run a vacuum feed off that? I'm assuming that there must be vacuum
> in there but i have never seen it done this way so im guessing there
> must be some reason why not.

As above, that is the original format - but you will need
the reservoir or the brake will feel little different. A
trip round the brakers would be a good first step.

Cheers
Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

On Tuesday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "Tom Woods" wrote:

> If i wanted to fit a brake servo to a 2.25 diesel powered landy where
> would i get a vacuum feed from?
>
> My 2.5D has a vacuum pump, but you cant fit one of them to the 2.25 as
> the fuel dissy is in way!
>
> Can you get a belt driven pump? or is there a better way?
>
> Is there any reason why you cant tap the itake manifold on the diesel
> and run a vacuum feed off that? I'm assuming that there must be vacuum
> in there but i have never seen it done this way so im guessing there
> must be some reason why not.

The basic reason is the lack of a throttle. When you brake, you
normally have taken your foot off the accelerator pedal, the throttle
closes, and there's a very restricted airflow to the engine. And
there's your vacuum.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."

"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If i wanted to fit a brake servo to a 2.25 diesel powered landy where
> would i get a vacuum feed from?
>
> My 2.5D has a vacuum pump, but you cant fit one of them to the 2.25 as
> the fuel dissy is in way!
>
> Can you get a belt driven pump? or is there a better way?
>
> Is there any reason why you cant tap the itake manifold on the diesel
> and run a vacuum feed off that? I'm assuming that there must be vacuum
> in there but i have never seen it done this way so im guessing there
> must be some reason why not.

The later SWB 2.25 diesels (post 1980 I think) had servo brakes, the LWB's
might have had them earlier than that. They had a vacuum reservoir and a
venturi sort of thing attached to the U of the inlet casting. The inlet
manifold on a diesel doesn't produce enough suck on its own without the
attachment. The alternative is, as someone else has said, to rig up some
sort of belt drive for an engine driven vacuum pump. IIRC some older
Peugeot's had belt driven pumps so it would be worth having a poke around a
scrap yard if you go that route.

Steve

"Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> If i wanted to fit a brake servo to a 2.25 diesel powered landy where
>> would i get a vacuum feed from?
>>
>> My 2.5D has a vacuum pump, but you cant fit one of them to the 2.25 as
>> the fuel dissy is in way!
>>
>> Can you get a belt driven pump? or is there a better way?
>>
>> Is there any reason why you cant tap the itake manifold on the diesel
>> and run a vacuum feed off that? I'm assuming that there must be vacuum
>> in there but i have never seen it done this way so im guessing there
>> must be some reason why not.
>
> The later SWB 2.25 diesels (post 1980 I think) had servo brakes, the LWB's
> might have had them earlier than that. They had a vacuum reservoir and a
> venturi sort of thing attached to the U of the inlet casting. The inlet
> manifold on a diesel doesn't produce enough suck on its own without the
> attachment. The alternative is, as someone else has said, to rig up some
> sort of belt drive for an engine driven vacuum pump. IIRC some older
> Peugeot's had belt driven pumps so it would be worth having a poke around
> a
> scrap yard if you go that route.
>
> Steve
>
>
Landrover's vacuum tapping method with extra tank etc was crap! It's a waste
of time trying to find the bits as the servo assistance is so low, even when
it's working right! A much better method is to fit an alternator that has a
vacuum pump already built in (vauxhall astra diesel?) and power your servo
properly that way. You may have to do a spot of fabrication for the new
alternator mounts, but hey, where's the fun in simply bolting something on?
<grin>
Badger.

"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If i wanted to fit a brake servo to a 2.25 diesel powered landy where
> would i get a vacuum feed from?
>
> My 2.5D has a vacuum pump, but you cant fit one of them to the 2.25 as
> the fuel dissy is in way!
>
> Can you get a belt driven pump? or is there a better way?
>
> Is there any reason why you cant tap the itake manifold on the diesel
> and run a vacuum feed off that? I'm assuming that there must be vacuum
> in there but i have never seen it done this way so im guessing there
> must be some reason why not.

Wonder if a Disco one will fit / modify. Austin had a broken one a while ago
I seem to recall.

Lee D

"Badger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > The later SWB 2.25 diesels (post 1980 I think) had servo brakes, the
LWB's
> > might have had them earlier than that. They had a vacuum reservoir and
a
> > venturi sort of thing attached to the U of the inlet casting. The inlet
> > manifold on a diesel doesn't produce enough suck on its own without the
> > attachment. The alternative is, as someone else has said, to rig up
some
> > sort of belt drive for an engine driven vacuum pump. IIRC some older
> > Peugeot's had belt driven pumps so it would be worth having a poke
around
> > a
> > scrap yard if you go that route.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> Landrover's vacuum tapping method with extra tank etc was crap! It's a
waste
> of time trying to find the bits as the servo assistance is so low, even
when
> it's working right! A much better method is to fit an alternator that has
a
> vacuum pump already built in (vauxhall astra diesel?) and power your servo
> properly that way. You may have to do a spot of fabrication for the new
> alternator mounts, but hey, where's the fun in simply bolting something
on?
> <grin>
> Badger.
>

I used a different method. I took the old 2¼ out and put in a V8. Seems to
have plenty of vacuum. ;-)

Steve

> Landrover's vacuum tapping method with extra tank etc was crap! It's a
waste
> of time trying to find the bits as the servo assistance is so low, even
when
> it's working right! A much better method is to fit an alternator that has
a
> vacuum pump already built in (vauxhall astra diesel?) and power your servo
> properly that way. You may have to do a spot of fabrication for the new
> alternator mounts, but hey, where's the fun in simply bolting something
on?
> <grin>
> Badger.

Mine works fine! The linkage does need carfull adustment so that the
throttle plate opens earlier in the accelerators pedel movment than the
injection pump or you end up lacking power and econimy. It also needs to
shut fully when you lift off... or very little vacume! i.e. it doesn't work
if you've go the hand throttle keeping the revs up for when its cold - can
be scary if you forget and jump on the brakes!
Having said all this, as I'm turbocharging mine the throttle valve is going
(could have installed a external dump valve heheh) and I've got a vacume
pump from a Peugot diesel to install.
Toby

"Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Badger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Steve" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> > The later SWB 2.25 diesels (post 1980 I think) had servo brakes, the
> LWB's
>> > might have had them earlier than that. They had a vacuum reservoir and
> a
>> > venturi sort of thing attached to the U of the inlet casting. The
>> > inlet
>> > manifold on a diesel doesn't produce enough suck on its own without the
>> > attachment. The alternative is, as someone else has said, to rig up
> some
>> > sort of belt drive for an engine driven vacuum pump. IIRC some older
>> > Peugeot's had belt driven pumps so it would be worth having a poke
> around
>> > a
>> > scrap yard if you go that route.
>> >
>> > Steve
>> >
>> >
>> Landrover's vacuum tapping method with extra tank etc was crap! It's a
> waste
>> of time trying to find the bits as the servo assistance is so low, even
> when
>> it's working right! A much better method is to fit an alternator that has
> a
>> vacuum pump already built in (vauxhall astra diesel?) and power your
>> servo
>> properly that way. You may have to do a spot of fabrication for the new
>> alternator mounts, but hey, where's the fun in simply bolting something
> on?
>> <grin>
>> Badger.
>>
>
> I used a different method. I took the old 2¼ out and put in a V8. Seems
> to
> have plenty of vacuum. ;-)
>
> Steve
>
Thankyou for that Steve, that's the best laugh I've had all day. I needed
cheering up this evening after a bad day at the "office" and you've done the
trick. Have a beer on me! (one of your own, that is - well, I am Scottish!!)
Badger.

Thanks all.

So just tapping the manifold is out!, and the original LR stuff is
crap, and not worth considering

This is for a mate, so i shall convey it all to him. I'm guessing that
he'll end up going to the scrappy and getting a belt driven pump.

I shall recommend peugeots and astras as things to look for first.

Getting a dual belt bottom pulley should be no hassle. Might have one
about already.

Ta.

> Thanks all.
>
> So just tapping the manifold is out!, and the original LR stuff is
> crap, and not worth considering

Its cheap and there isn't much to go wrong with it...

>
> This is for a mate, so i shall convey it all to him. I'm guessing that
> he'll end up going to the scrappy and getting a belt driven pump.
>
> I shall recommend peugeots and astras as things to look for first.
>
> Getting a dual belt bottom pulley should be no hassle. Might have one
> about already.

Also the Peugeot diesel engine was used in Rovers befor the L series came
around but after the Perkins Prima. Sort of early 90's? Can also use a
military water pump pully as these are twin belt jobies...
Toby

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 20:33:08 -0000, "TVS" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Mine works fine! The linkage does need carfull adustment so that the
>throttle plate opens earlier in the accelerators pedel movment than the
>injection pump or you end up lacking power and econimy. It also needs to
>shut fully when you lift off... or very little vacume! i.e. it doesn't work
>if you've go the hand throttle keeping the revs up for when its cold - can
>be scary if you forget and jump on the brakes!
>Having said all this, as I'm turbocharging mine the throttle valve is going
>(could have installed a external dump valve heheh) and I've got a vacume
>pump from a Peugot diesel to install.
>Toby
>
Any chance of a picture of yours Toby? I'd be interested to see
exactly what this complicated sounding stuff looks like.

Also, what sort of peugeot was your pump off? It takes ages to go
round the whole scrapyard looking under bonnets if you dont know
roughly what type of car you are after!

How close to car transplants are you? Can you look over the fence and
see if theyve got any in? ;-)

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 23:33:18 -0000, "TVS" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> Thanks all.
>>
>> So just tapping the manifold is out!, and the original LR stuff is
>> crap, and not worth considering
>
>Its cheap and there isn't much to go wrong with it...
>
But is it worth considering if it doesnt work very well (like people
are saying).

You havent been in a landy with my mate, he's gonna want a servo that
actually works!
Everybody else i know with a landy started off with something without
a servo and with crappy brakes and we all tend to slow up for
junctions and things extremely well in advance.
He started off with a LWB S3 with a servo and brakes that were
brilliant, and drives the landy like a car. Which is fine but hes in
for a shock if he doesnt have a servo (not that he's going to be able
to get up that much speed with the 2.25D!)

>Also the Peugeot diesel engine was used in Rovers befor the L series came
>around but after the Perkins Prima. Sort of early 90's? Can also use a
>military water pump pully as these are twin belt jobies...

The LR place at Hinstock should be able to sort him out with a twin
military pulley (if he hasnt already got one spare)

Im assuming that the crank pulley on a 2.25D is interchangeble with a
2.25P too, so he could drive it off that if he fancied?

"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If i wanted to fit a brake servo to a 2.25 diesel powered landy where
> would i get a vacuum feed from?
>
> My 2.5D has a vacuum pump, but you cant fit one of them to the 2.25 as
> the fuel dissy is in way!
>
> Can you get a belt driven pump? or is there a better way?
>
> Is there any reason why you cant tap the itake manifold on the diesel
> and run a vacuum feed off that? I'm assuming that there must be vacuum
> in there but i have never seen it done this way so im guessing there
> must be some reason why not.


The vacuum pump off a diesel peugeot 205 or 305 will do just the job you
want . Seen it done.
steve the grease

In message <[email protected]>
Tom Woods <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 23:33:18 -0000, "TVS" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >> Thanks all.
> >>
> >> So just tapping the manifold is out!, and the original LR stuff is
> >> crap, and not worth considering
> >
> >Its cheap and there isn't much to go wrong with it...
> >
> But is it worth considering if it doesnt work very well (like people
> are saying).
>

As someone else pointed out - the LR system does work, if set up
correctly.

> You havent been in a landy with my mate, he's gonna want a servo that
> actually works!
> Everybody else i know with a landy started off with something without
> a servo and with crappy brakes and we all tend to slow up for
> junctions and things extremely well in advance.
> He started off with a LWB S3 with a servo and brakes that were
> brilliant, and drives the landy like a car. Which is fine but hes in
> for a shock if he doesnt have a servo (not that he's going to be able
> to get up that much speed with the 2.25D!)

LR Series brake *should* be very good, it's a myth that they don't
work. The only problem with them is that you get brake-fade, as with
any other drum based system.

>
> >Also the Peugeot diesel engine was used in Rovers befor the L series came
> >around but after the Perkins Prima. Sort of early 90's? Can also use a
> >military water pump pully as these are twin belt jobies...
>
> The LR place at Hinstock should be able to sort him out with a twin
> military pulley (if he hasnt already got one spare)
>
> Im assuming that the crank pulley on a 2.25D is interchangeble with a
> 2.25P too, so he could drive it off that if he fancied?
>
Yes.


Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 08:34:06 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<[email protected]> wrote:

>LR Series brake *should* be very good, it's a myth that they don't
>work. The only problem with them is that you get brake-fade, as with
>any other drum based system.

Yeah. I know they should be good, but realistically they often arnt.
It took me 3 years to get mine to be any good, and i've lost count of
the number of hours i have spent messing with the braking system on
series landies (both mine and other peoples) trying to improve it or
bleed them up!

I replaced the whole system when i first got the truck but it wasnt
until the second rebuild where i put on a new master cyl, a servo and
an axle set of slave cylinders that i got them to be what i'd call
'good'. They are better than the brakes on my last car now.

> >> Thanks all.
> >>
> >> So just tapping the manifold is out!, and the original LR stuff is
> >> crap, and not worth considering
> >
> >Its cheap and there isn't much to go wrong with it...
> >
> But is it worth considering if it doesnt work very well (like people
> are saying).

Well.. its probably not as good as a vacume pump but it is MUCH easier to
fit and is all standard landrover bits. Infact for some beer tokens you can
have mine when I've taken it off! Only reason I'm removing it is because I'm
fitting a turbo and to save complications with a high boost presure and a
throttle in the intake I'm fiting the vacuum pump. I'll take some pics with
my new phone in the next day or two for you....

> Im assuming that the crank pulley on a 2.25D is interchangeble with a
> 2.25P too, so he could drive it off that if he fancied?

Yep, I'm prity sure it is....
Hope this helps! Toby

>Mine works fine! The linkage does need carfull adustment so that the
> >throttle plate opens earlier in the accelerators pedel movment than the
> >injection pump or you end up lacking power and econimy. It also needs to
> >shut fully when you lift off... or very little vacume! i.e. it doesn't
work
> >if you've go the hand throttle keeping the revs up for when its cold -
can
> >be scary if you forget and jump on the brakes!
> >Having said all this, as I'm turbocharging mine the throttle valve is
going
> >(could have installed a external dump valve heheh) and I've got a vacume
> >pump from a Peugot diesel to install.
> >Toby
> >
> Any chance of a picture of yours Toby? I'd be interested to see
> exactly what this complicated sounding stuff looks like.

yep, will see what I can do!

> Also, what sort of peugeot was your pump off? It takes ages to go
> round the whole scrapyard looking under bonnets if you dont know
> roughly what type of car you are after!
>
> How close to car transplants are you? Can you look over the fence and
> see if theyve got any in? ;-)

Not far, I'm just at Bunbury! Not sure about the moddel of Peugeot but its
driven from the right hand end of the cam shaft by a very short v belt. You
may need to put a bigger pully on it or it may over speed when driven from
the crankshaft... probably wouldn't do it much harm, but can't be good for
the life expectancy - running it twice as fast as it should be! heheh
Toby

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 20:02:16 -0000, "TVS" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Not far, I'm just at Bunbury! Not sure about the moddel of Peugeot but its
>driven from the right hand end of the cam shaft by a very short v belt. You
>may need to put a bigger pully on it or it may over speed when driven from
>the crankshaft... probably wouldn't do it much harm, but can't be good for
>the life expectancy - running it twice as fast as it should be! heheh

Ooh. hadnt thought of the speed issues. will tell him to find out
about where its already driven from and pulley sizes.

He's managed to source a peugeot vacuum pump already (only took him a
couple of hours) due to knowing people who work in a pug garage. I
wish i had it that easy when i wanted bits!

Go for a Diesel Pug 205, we had one which was B reg, and it had a really
nice little vac pump so you would just need to get a longer fan belt and
make some brackets to fit it..
Like the idea of solving the problem with a V8, nice one had me in stitches


Rich

--
To reply remove " spam "
"Tom Woods" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If i wanted to fit a brake servo to a 2.25 diesel powered landy where
> would i get a vacuum feed from?
>
> My 2.5D has a vacuum pump, but you cant fit one of them to the 2.25 as
> the fuel dissy is in way!
>
> Can you get a belt driven pump? or is there a better way?
>
> Is there any reason why you cant tap the itake manifold on the diesel
> and run a vacuum feed off that? I'm assuming that there must be vacuum
> in there but i have never seen it done this way so im guessing there
> must be some reason why not.