V8 camshaft choices - BEWARE!

Hi all, just thought I'd post this for general perusal.

Please, Please, Please - read this carefully before buying a new camshaft -
from anyone!

It seems to me that if you are looking for a cam for a v8, there are a lot
of suppliers out there. Some of them are good companies to deal with, some
not so good. That is a matter of personal choice who anyone wishes to deal
with.

BUT - Here is the problem.
Some companies are advertising cams in the comics (and one in particular on
ebay) as being suitable for either carb or EFI engines. This is not so, the
cams are completely different and if you fit the incorrect cam to a carb
engine then the fuelling will be all over the place.
Allow me to quote some cam figures, taken from genuine parts workshop
manuals.

Vehicle/engine IO IC EO EC Duration Lift
RR 3.5EFI 24 52 62 14 256 0.39
RR 3.5 Carb high comp 36 64 74 26 280 0.39
RR 3.5 Carb low comp 30 75 68 37 285 0.39
Rover SD1 carb & EFI 30 75 68 37 285 0.39
RR 3.9 EFI 32 73 70 35 285 0.39

IO is inlet opening, degrees before top dead centre
IC is inlet closing, degrees after bottom dead centre
EO is exhaust opening, degrees before bottom dead centre
EC is exhaust closing, degrees after top dead centre
Duration is the number of degrees the valve is off it's seat for (measured
at only a couple of thou')
Lift is the lift at the camshaft lobe, not the valve.

Please note that the 3.5 EFI engine can use either the 256 or 285 duration
cams, with the same injection system, BUT the fuelling is different, check
the part numbers of the ECU's for a Rangie and an SD1 Vitesse for
confirmation.

Check also the differences between the carb and EFI cams for a rangie, how
can anyone sell a single cam and say it is suitable for bolting straight in
to either engine??

It can be seen from this that the difference between a low compression carb
cam and a 3.9 cam is only 2 degrees of overall timing, so do not be fooled
into believing that a 3.9 cam will make your 3.5 fly, most noticeable
difference is down to replacing a normally shot cam with a new one, you'd
have noticed the same if you'd have put a new std cam in!
Advancing a cam in this way will slightly enhance the low rpm torque, but it
will be measurable only on a dyno, not by you or I driving it! As for power,
if anything it will reduce very, very slightly. You will lower the peak
torque and peak power rpm's by around 200rpm, that is all.

Be careful what you buy and don't get ripped off by advertising blurb folks!
Just in case anyone thinks I'm trying to promote my own sales, I don't stock
or sell engine parts, I buy in for myself as and when I need them to carry
out my rebuilding work.

Badger.

Interesting info. So if you were going to rebuild my 3.9i Discovery engine
for me, what cam would you put in, ie. genuine or other?
Richard


"Badger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi all, just thought I'd post this for general perusal.
>
> Please, Please, Please - read this carefully before buying a new
> camshaft - from anyone!
>
> It seems to me that if you are looking for a cam for a v8, there are a lot
> of suppliers out there. Some of them are good companies to deal with, some
> not so good. That is a matter of personal choice who anyone wishes to deal
> with.
>
> BUT - Here is the problem.
> Some companies are advertising cams in the comics (and one in particular
> on ebay) as being suitable for either carb or EFI engines. This is not so,
> the cams are completely different and if you fit the incorrect cam to a
> carb engine then the fuelling will be all over the place.
> Allow me to quote some cam figures, taken from genuine parts workshop
> manuals.
>
> Vehicle/engine IO IC EO EC Duration Lift
> RR 3.5EFI 24 52 62 14 256 0.39
> RR 3.5 Carb high comp 36 64 74 26 280 0.39
> RR 3.5 Carb low comp 30 75 68 37 285 0.39
> Rover SD1 carb & EFI 30 75 68 37 285 0.39
> RR 3.9 EFI 32 73 70 35 285 0.39
>
> IO is inlet opening, degrees before top dead centre
> IC is inlet closing, degrees after bottom dead centre
> EO is exhaust opening, degrees before bottom dead centre
> EC is exhaust closing, degrees after top dead centre
> Duration is the number of degrees the valve is off it's seat for (measured
> at only a couple of thou')
> Lift is the lift at the camshaft lobe, not the valve.
>
> Please note that the 3.5 EFI engine can use either the 256 or 285 duration
> cams, with the same injection system, BUT the fuelling is different, check
> the part numbers of the ECU's for a Rangie and an SD1 Vitesse for
> confirmation.
>
> Check also the differences between the carb and EFI cams for a rangie, how
> can anyone sell a single cam and say it is suitable for bolting straight
> in to either engine??
>
> It can be seen from this that the difference between a low compression
> carb cam and a 3.9 cam is only 2 degrees of overall timing, so do not be
> fooled into believing that a 3.9 cam will make your 3.5 fly, most
> noticeable difference is down to replacing a normally shot cam with a new
> one, you'd have noticed the same if you'd have put a new std cam in!
> Advancing a cam in this way will slightly enhance the low rpm torque, but
> it will be measurable only on a dyno, not by you or I driving it! As for
> power, if anything it will reduce very, very slightly. You will lower the
> peak torque and peak power rpm's by around 200rpm, that is all.
>
> Be careful what you buy and don't get ripped off by advertising blurb
> folks!
> Just in case anyone thinks I'm trying to promote my own sales, I don't
> stock or sell engine parts, I buy in for myself as and when I need them to
> carry out my rebuilding work.
>
> Badger.
>

"Richard" <richardsemail [email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Interesting info. So if you were going to rebuild my 3.9i Discovery engine
> for me, what cam would you put in, ie. genuine or other?
> Richard

Assuming the engine is actually fitted to a Disco, it'd get a standard
3.9EFI cam but if you wanted a little more oomph (10-15bhp at the top end)
without turning it into something that needs revved hard or drinks excessive
ammounts of petrol, I'd fit a Viper Cyclone, a cam specifically designed for
the EFI engines that will also work ok with automatics and doesn't require
any ECU mods specifically for the cam grind.
RPI's RP4 is a similar grind but slightly more expensive.
That is, of course, unless you specified a specific cam yourself for a given
reason.

Badger.


> "Badger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Hi all, just thought I'd post this for general perusal.
>>
>> Please, Please, Please - read this carefully before buying a new
>> camshaft - from anyone!
>>
>> It seems to me that if you are looking for a cam for a v8, there are a
>> lot of suppliers out there. Some of them are good companies to deal with,
>> some not so good. That is a matter of personal choice who anyone wishes
>> to deal with.
>>
>> BUT - Here is the problem.
>> Some companies are advertising cams in the comics (and one in particular
>> on ebay) as being suitable for either carb or EFI engines. This is not
>> so, the cams are completely different and if you fit the incorrect cam to
>> a carb engine then the fuelling will be all over the place.
>> Allow me to quote some cam figures, taken from genuine parts workshop
>> manuals.
>>
>> Vehicle/engine IO IC EO EC Duration Lift
>> RR 3.5EFI 24 52 62 14 256 0.39
>> RR 3.5 Carb high comp 36 64 74 26 280 0.39
>> RR 3.5 Carb low comp 30 75 68 37 285 0.39
>> Rover SD1 carb & EFI 30 75 68 37 285 0.39
>> RR 3.9 EFI 32 73 70 35 285 0.39
>>
>> IO is inlet opening, degrees before top dead centre
>> IC is inlet closing, degrees after bottom dead centre
>> EO is exhaust opening, degrees before bottom dead centre
>> EC is exhaust closing, degrees after top dead centre
>> Duration is the number of degrees the valve is off it's seat for
>> (measured at only a couple of thou')
>> Lift is the lift at the camshaft lobe, not the valve.
>>
>> Please note that the 3.5 EFI engine can use either the 256 or 285
>> duration cams, with the same injection system, BUT the fuelling is
>> different, check the part numbers of the ECU's for a Rangie and an SD1
>> Vitesse for confirmation.
>>
>> Check also the differences between the carb and EFI cams for a rangie,
>> how can anyone sell a single cam and say it is suitable for bolting
>> straight in to either engine??
>>
>> It can be seen from this that the difference between a low compression
>> carb cam and a 3.9 cam is only 2 degrees of overall timing, so do not be
>> fooled into believing that a 3.9 cam will make your 3.5 fly, most
>> noticeable difference is down to replacing a normally shot cam with a new
>> one, you'd have noticed the same if you'd have put a new std cam in!
>> Advancing a cam in this way will slightly enhance the low rpm torque, but
>> it will be measurable only on a dyno, not by you or I driving it! As for
>> power, if anything it will reduce very, very slightly. You will lower
>> the peak torque and peak power rpm's by around 200rpm, that is all.
>>
>> Be careful what you buy and don't get ripped off by advertising blurb
>> folks!
>> Just in case anyone thinks I'm trying to promote my own sales, I don't
>> stock or sell engine parts, I buy in for myself as and when I need them
>> to carry out my rebuilding work.
>>
>> Badger.
>>
>
>

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:40:30 +0000, Badger wrote:

> Hi all, just thought I'd post this for general perusal.
>
> Please, Please, Please - read this carefully before buying a new camshaft -
> from anyone!
>
> It seems to me that if you are looking for a cam for a v8, there are a lot
> of suppliers out there. Some of them are good companies to deal with, some
> not so good. That is a matter of personal choice who anyone wishes to deal
> with.
>
> BUT - Here is the problem.
> Some companies are advertising cams in the comics (and one in particular on
> ebay) as being suitable for either carb or EFI engines. This is not so, the
> cams are completely different and if you fit the incorrect cam to a carb
> engine then the fuelling will be all over the place.
> Allow me to quote some cam figures, taken from genuine parts workshop
> manuals.
>
> Vehicle/engine IO IC EO EC Duration Lift
> RR 3.5EFI 24 52 62 14 256 0.39
> RR 3.5 Carb high comp 36 64 74 26 280 0.39
> RR 3.5 Carb low comp 30 75 68 37 285 0.39
> Rover SD1 carb & EFI 30 75 68 37 285 0.39
> RR 3.9 EFI 32 73 70 35 285 0.39
>
> IO is inlet opening, degrees before top dead centre
> IC is inlet closing, degrees after bottom dead centre
> EO is exhaust opening, degrees before bottom dead centre
> EC is exhaust closing, degrees after top dead centre
> Duration is the number of degrees the valve is off it's seat for (measured
> at only a couple of thou')
> Lift is the lift at the camshaft lobe, not the valve.
>
> Please note that the 3.5 EFI engine can use either the 256 or 285 duration
> cams, with the same injection system, BUT the fuelling is different, check
> the part numbers of the ECU's for a Rangie and an SD1 Vitesse for
> confirmation.
>
> Check also the differences between the carb and EFI cams for a rangie, how
> can anyone sell a single cam and say it is suitable for bolting straight in
> to either engine??
>
> It can be seen from this that the difference between a low compression carb
> cam and a 3.9 cam is only 2 degrees of overall timing, so do not be fooled
> into believing that a 3.9 cam will make your 3.5 fly, most noticeable
> difference is down to replacing a normally shot cam with a new one, you'd
> have noticed the same if you'd have put a new std cam in!
> Advancing a cam in this way will slightly enhance the low rpm torque, but it
> will be measurable only on a dyno, not by you or I driving it! As for power,
> if anything it will reduce very, very slightly. You will lower the peak
> torque and peak power rpm's by around 200rpm, that is all.
>
> Be careful what you buy and don't get ripped off by advertising blurb folks!
> Just in case anyone thinks I'm trying to promote my own sales, I don't stock
> or sell engine parts, I buy in for myself as and when I need them to carry
> out my rebuilding work.

That's some very detailed and good info, thanks a lot! Who sells the Viper
Cyclone cams online?

Thanks!

Jens

"Jens Axboe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:40:30 +0000, Badger wrote:
>
>> Hi all, just thought I'd post this for general perusal.
>>
>> Please, Please, Please - read this carefully before buying a new
>> camshaft -
>> from anyone!
>>
>> It seems to me that if you are looking for a cam for a v8, there are a
>> lot
>> of suppliers out there. Some of them are good companies to deal with,
>> some
>> not so good. That is a matter of personal choice who anyone wishes to
>> deal
>> with.
>>
>> BUT - Here is the problem.
>> Some companies are advertising cams in the comics (and one in particular
>> on
>> ebay) as being suitable for either carb or EFI engines. This is not so,
>> the
>> cams are completely different and if you fit the incorrect cam to a carb
>> engine then the fuelling will be all over the place.
>> Allow me to quote some cam figures, taken from genuine parts workshop
>> manuals.
>>
>> Vehicle/engine IO IC EO EC Duration Lift
>> RR 3.5EFI 24 52 62 14 256 0.39
>> RR 3.5 Carb high comp 36 64 74 26 280 0.39
>> RR 3.5 Carb low comp 30 75 68 37 285 0.39
>> Rover SD1 carb & EFI 30 75 68 37 285 0.39
>> RR 3.9 EFI 32 73 70 35 285 0.39
>>
>> IO is inlet opening, degrees before top dead centre
>> IC is inlet closing, degrees after bottom dead centre
>> EO is exhaust opening, degrees before bottom dead centre
>> EC is exhaust closing, degrees after top dead centre
>> Duration is the number of degrees the valve is off it's seat for
>> (measured
>> at only a couple of thou')
>> Lift is the lift at the camshaft lobe, not the valve.
>>
>> Please note that the 3.5 EFI engine can use either the 256 or 285
>> duration
>> cams, with the same injection system, BUT the fuelling is different,
>> check
>> the part numbers of the ECU's for a Rangie and an SD1 Vitesse for
>> confirmation.
>>
>> Check also the differences between the carb and EFI cams for a rangie,
>> how
>> can anyone sell a single cam and say it is suitable for bolting straight
>> in
>> to either engine??
>>
>> It can be seen from this that the difference between a low compression
>> carb
>> cam and a 3.9 cam is only 2 degrees of overall timing, so do not be
>> fooled
>> into believing that a 3.9 cam will make your 3.5 fly, most noticeable
>> difference is down to replacing a normally shot cam with a new one, you'd
>> have noticed the same if you'd have put a new std cam in!
>> Advancing a cam in this way will slightly enhance the low rpm torque, but
>> it
>> will be measurable only on a dyno, not by you or I driving it! As for
>> power,
>> if anything it will reduce very, very slightly. You will lower the peak
>> torque and peak power rpm's by around 200rpm, that is all.
>>
>> Be careful what you buy and don't get ripped off by advertising blurb
>> folks!
>> Just in case anyone thinks I'm trying to promote my own sales, I don't
>> stock
>> or sell engine parts, I buy in for myself as and when I need them to
>> carry
>> out my rebuilding work.
>
> That's some very detailed and good info, thanks a lot! Who sells the Viper
> Cyclone cams online?

No-one, unfortunately, at least not that I know of. They are Real Steel's
own cam range, but bear with me for a week or so and I may have more info.

Badger.

In message <[email protected]>
"Badger" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi all, just thought I'd post this for general perusal.
>
> Please, Please, Please - read this carefully before buying a new camshaft -
> from anyone!
>
> It seems to me that if you are looking for a cam for a v8, there are a lot
> of suppliers out there. Some of them are good companies to deal with, some
> not so good. That is a matter of personal choice who anyone wishes to deal
> with.
>
> BUT - Here is the problem.
> Some companies are advertising cams in the comics (and one in particular on
> ebay) as being suitable for either carb or EFI engines. This is not so, the
> cams are completely different and if you fit the incorrect cam to a carb
> engine then the fuelling will be all over the place.
> Allow me to quote some cam figures, taken from genuine parts workshop
> manuals.
>
> Vehicle/engine IO IC EO EC Duration Lift
> RR 3.5EFI 24 52 62 14 256 0.39
> RR 3.5 Carb high comp 36 64 74 26 280 0.39
> RR 3.5 Carb low comp 30 75 68 37 285 0.39
> Rover SD1 carb & EFI 30 75 68 37 285 0.39
> RR 3.9 EFI 32 73 70 35 285 0.39
>
> IO is inlet opening, degrees before top dead centre
> IC is inlet closing, degrees after bottom dead centre
> EO is exhaust opening, degrees before bottom dead centre
> EC is exhaust closing, degrees after top dead centre
> Duration is the number of degrees the valve is off it's seat for (measured
> at only a couple of thou')
> Lift is the lift at the camshaft lobe, not the valve.
>
> Please note that the 3.5 EFI engine can use either the 256 or 285 duration
> cams, with the same injection system, BUT the fuelling is different, check
> the part numbers of the ECU's for a Rangie and an SD1 Vitesse for
> confirmation.
>
> Check also the differences between the carb and EFI cams for a rangie, how
> can anyone sell a single cam and say it is suitable for bolting straight in
> to either engine??
>
> It can be seen from this that the difference between a low compression carb
> cam and a 3.9 cam is only 2 degrees of overall timing, so do not be fooled
> into believing that a 3.9 cam will make your 3.5 fly, most noticeable
> difference is down to replacing a normally shot cam with a new one, you'd
> have noticed the same if you'd have put a new std cam in!
> Advancing a cam in this way will slightly enhance the low rpm torque, but it
> will be measurable only on a dyno, not by you or I driving it! As for power,
> if anything it will reduce very, very slightly. You will lower the peak
> torque and peak power rpm's by around 200rpm, that is all.
>
> Be careful what you buy and don't get ripped off by advertising blurb folks!
> Just in case anyone thinks I'm trying to promote my own sales, I don't stock
> or sell engine parts, I buy in for myself as and when I need them to carry
> out my rebuilding work.
>
> Badger.
>
>
Golden rule No.1 when buying spares. If a supplier lists two
parts that appear to be the same - they are not. Pattern,
and increasingly Genuine, manufacturers will go to great lengths
to reduce stock levels by ascertaining if two parts are
*really* the same. If they list two (of the same brand),
then there is a difference, and it does matter.


Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

On or around Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:40:30 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>Please note that the 3.5 EFI engine can use either the 256 or 285 duration
>cams, with the same injection system, BUT the fuelling is different, check
>the part numbers of the ECU's for a Rangie and an SD1 Vitesse for
>confirmation.

Is there an easy way to tell which cam is likely to be in a given engine?
I've a low mileage 3.9 cam in the shed, with a set of followers, and it'd be
nice to know whether it'll suit the hotwire 3.5 in the disco. The exhaust
system on the disco seems to be tuned for more power at higher revs - it's
not all that torquey at low revs, but takes off quite nicely when the revs
get to about 2500-3000
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Chuck didn’t reply, so George swung round in his saddle. He could just
see Chuck’s face, a white oval turned toward the sky.
'Look,' whispered Chuck, and George lifted his eyes to heaven.
(There is always a last time for everything.)
Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out"
Arthur C. Clarke, "The 9 billion names of God"

"beamendsltd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:31b2b5324d%[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>
> "Badger" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi all, just thought I'd post this for general perusal.
>>
>> Please, Please, Please - read this carefully before buying a new
>> camshaft -
>> from anyone!
>>
>> It seems to me that if you are looking for a cam for a v8, there are a
>> lot
>> of suppliers out there. Some of them are good companies to deal with,
>> some
>> not so good. That is a matter of personal choice who anyone wishes to
>> deal
>> with.
>>
>> BUT - Here is the problem.
>> Some companies are advertising cams in the comics (and one in particular
>> on
>> ebay) as being suitable for either carb or EFI engines. This is not so,
>> the
>> cams are completely different and if you fit the incorrect cam to a carb
>> engine then the fuelling will be all over the place.
>> Allow me to quote some cam figures, taken from genuine parts workshop
>> manuals.
>>
>> Vehicle/engine IO IC EO EC Duration Lift
>> RR 3.5EFI 24 52 62 14 256 0.39
>> RR 3.5 Carb high comp 36 64 74 26 280 0.39
>> RR 3.5 Carb low comp 30 75 68 37 285 0.39
>> Rover SD1 carb & EFI 30 75 68 37 285 0.39
>> RR 3.9 EFI 32 73 70 35 285 0.39
>>
>> IO is inlet opening, degrees before top dead centre
>> IC is inlet closing, degrees after bottom dead centre
>> EO is exhaust opening, degrees before bottom dead centre
>> EC is exhaust closing, degrees after top dead centre
>> Duration is the number of degrees the valve is off it's seat for
>> (measured
>> at only a couple of thou')
>> Lift is the lift at the camshaft lobe, not the valve.
>>
>> Please note that the 3.5 EFI engine can use either the 256 or 285
>> duration
>> cams, with the same injection system, BUT the fuelling is different,
>> check
>> the part numbers of the ECU's for a Rangie and an SD1 Vitesse for
>> confirmation.
>>
>> Check also the differences between the carb and EFI cams for a rangie,
>> how
>> can anyone sell a single cam and say it is suitable for bolting straight
>> in
>> to either engine??
>>
>> It can be seen from this that the difference between a low compression
>> carb
>> cam and a 3.9 cam is only 2 degrees of overall timing, so do not be
>> fooled
>> into believing that a 3.9 cam will make your 3.5 fly, most noticeable
>> difference is down to replacing a normally shot cam with a new one, you'd
>> have noticed the same if you'd have put a new std cam in!
>> Advancing a cam in this way will slightly enhance the low rpm torque, but
>> it
>> will be measurable only on a dyno, not by you or I driving it! As for
>> power,
>> if anything it will reduce very, very slightly. You will lower the peak
>> torque and peak power rpm's by around 200rpm, that is all.
>>
>> Be careful what you buy and don't get ripped off by advertising blurb
>> folks!
>> Just in case anyone thinks I'm trying to promote my own sales, I don't
>> stock
>> or sell engine parts, I buy in for myself as and when I need them to
>> carry
>> out my rebuilding work.
>>
>> Badger.
>>
>>
> Golden rule No.1 when buying spares. If a supplier lists two
> parts that appear to be the same - they are not. Pattern,
> and increasingly Genuine, manufacturers will go to great lengths
> to reduce stock levels by ascertaining if two parts are
> *really* the same. If they list two (of the same brand),
> then there is a difference, and it does matter.
>
>
> Richard
> --
Hi Richard, I was prompted to write this after seeing an advert on ebay by a
well known uk v8 engines firm. They were advertising a cam as being a
standard direct replacement for either carb or efi, when the profiles are so
obviously completely different. I coplained to them by email and mentioned
that I may be tempted to contact trading standards re. false advertising,
they then emailed me back stating that they would ammend the wording on the
auction which they now have. They now claim that they have had this cam
specially produced as a replacement that has been optimised to be a direct
replacement for the OE cam in either efi or carb engines.
I can smell ****e!
For one, I doubt if they have the budget to specially develop individual
camshafts for what are, lets face it, relatively low production runs. Two,
almost every cam for rv8 application on the uk market can be cross-checked
to another as being the same cam (Piper 270/2, Oselli RV8271 and Kent H180
for instance are all the same cam!) Three, rover spent a small fortune
developing the cams for the later v8 engines to be an ideal compromise, if
one cam had been suitable, they'd have done it, as you rightly say.

They (the sellers) still conveniently neglect to tell you that you will need
to change carb needles etc to get it to run correctly through the whole rev
range, that is how they sting you for extra money after you've bought the
cam and call them to ask why it doesn't run right. I know people they've
done it to!

Look at the completely different timing profiles and ask yourself how these
2 cams could possibly be "optimised" into one! Rover had the cam for the 3.5
EFI specifically designed and tuned for serious low rpm torque, to prevent
any risk of the engine stalling when selecting D with the auto, and to
assist a big heavy vehicle get off the line. Any other cam will undoubtedly
give you more power (claims range from mild to wild depending on cam and
advertiser!!) but you will loose this torque at low revs and you may
experience stalling with an auto, even with relatively mild cams such as
Piper 270/110 and 270/2, I have personal experience with them both and
stalling autos!

Badger.

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Mon, 24 Jan 2005 16:40:30 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>>Please note that the 3.5 EFI engine can use either the 256 or 285 duration
>>cams, with the same injection system, BUT the fuelling is different, check
>>the part numbers of the ECU's for a Rangie and an SD1 Vitesse for
>>confirmation.
>
> Is there an easy way to tell which cam is likely to be in a given engine?
> I've a low mileage 3.9 cam in the shed, with a set of followers, and it'd
> be
> nice to know whether it'll suit the hotwire 3.5 in the disco. The exhaust
> system on the disco seems to be tuned for more power at higher revs - it's
> not all that torquey at low revs, but takes off quite nicely when the revs
> get to about 2500-3000
> --
Austin, according to the parts book, the cam in the 3.5 hotwire (14CUX) is
the same cam as the 3.5 "flapper type" (4CU), so if you fitted the spare 3.9
efi cam then you'd be relying on the airflow meter and ecu to correct the
fuelling as the profiles are different.
Now to confuse. Allegedly, some of the late 3.5 efi hotwires had the 3.9
cam, but I haven't found any reference to this anywhere official. Best to
stick a degree wheel on the front of the crank, whip off a rocker cover and
have a look-see what your timing figures are. Pull the rocker shaft ass'y
out (offside is easiest obviously) and use the no. 6 piston as your
reference, it'll give the same tdc as no. 1 would have. Use the pushrod, but
check for movement with the rocker removed as the valve spring will hold the
follower partly closed and give you false timing figures otherwise.

Please note, the reference above that I made to ecu swapping for
rangie/vittesse applies to flapper type only.

Badger.

On or around Tue, 25 Jan 2005 11:29:15 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Austin, according to the parts book, the cam in the 3.5 hotwire (14CUX) is
>the same cam as the 3.5 "flapper type" (4CU), so if you fitted the spare 3.9
>efi cam then you'd be relying on the airflow meter and ecu to correct the
>fuelling as the profiles are different.
>Now to confuse. Allegedly, some of the late 3.5 efi hotwires had the 3.9
>cam, but I haven't found any reference to this anywhere official. Best to
>stick a degree wheel on the front of the crank, whip off a rocker cover and
>have a look-see what your timing figures are. Pull the rocker shaft ass'y
>out (offside is easiest obviously) and use the no. 6 piston as your
>reference, it'll give the same tdc as no. 1 would have. Use the pushrod, but
>check for movement with the rocker removed as the valve spring will hold the
>follower partly closed and give you false timing figures otherwise.

well, This one certainly hasn't got rafts of low-rev torque. There again,
it's a non-standard stainless exhaust (make unknown, except that it don't
look like super-high quality) which may well be tuned for more revs and less
torque, if the exhaust can make that much difference to a 3.5... Sounds
nice at full-ish chat, mind, above 3K revs there's a nice rasp to it...

'ere, 'nother thing you might know... Some hotwires are fitted with lambda
sensors, and some ain't. can the ones without have them added, or is it a
different ECU? I wouldn't mind putting lambda sensors on it so I could
upgrade the gas system to closed loop - it's a bit thirsty on open loop,
typically about 13 mpg if I'm lucky and don't floor it too often. It'd be
neat, in a way, if the same lambdas could also talk to the petrol ECU.






--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Nessun maggior dolore che ricordarsi del tempo felice nella miseria"
- Dante Alighieri (1265 - 1321) from Divina Commedia 'Inferno'

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]
> On or around Tue, 25 Jan 2005 11:29:15 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

<snip>

> well, This one certainly hasn't got rafts of low-rev torque. There
> again, it's a non-standard stainless exhaust (make unknown, except
> that it don't look like super-high quality) which may well be tuned
> for more revs and less torque, if the exhaust can make that much
> difference to a 3.5... Sounds nice at full-ish chat, mind, above 3K
> revs there's a nice rasp to it...

I'm lurking in this thread with great interest...
My ruster has a Rimmer Bros. SS exhaust (with tubular manifolds). You
guy's don't happen to know how these Rimmer exhausts are tuned?
It's fitted to an ex-SD1 vitesse 3.5V8 with Stromberg carbs on top and
fueled with LPG.
Pretty good torque below 3k revs (to my knowledge, as this is my first
V8) but above 3k it doesn't change for the better anymore. BTW, I can
tow just about anything* anywhere without exceeding 2500 rpm, so it is
good for me.

*With exception of the Eiffel Tower.

This is getting too confusing now. Perhaps I should just use a standard cam.
Richard


"aghasee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
> news:[email protected]
>> On or around Tue, 25 Jan 2005 11:29:15 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
> <snip>
>
>> well, This one certainly hasn't got rafts of low-rev torque. There
>> again, it's a non-standard stainless exhaust (make unknown, except
>> that it don't look like super-high quality) which may well be tuned
>> for more revs and less torque, if the exhaust can make that much
>> difference to a 3.5... Sounds nice at full-ish chat, mind, above 3K
>> revs there's a nice rasp to it...
>
> I'm lurking in this thread with great interest...
> My ruster has a Rimmer Bros. SS exhaust (with tubular manifolds). You
> guy's don't happen to know how these Rimmer exhausts are tuned?
> It's fitted to an ex-SD1 vitesse 3.5V8 with Stromberg carbs on top and
> fueled with LPG.
> Pretty good torque below 3k revs (to my knowledge, as this is my first
> V8) but above 3k it doesn't change for the better anymore. BTW, I can
> tow just about anything* anywhere without exceeding 2500 rpm, so it is
> good for me.
>
> *With exception of the Eiffel Tower.
>
>

"Austin Shackles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On or around Tue, 25 Jan 2005 11:29:15 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>Austin, according to the parts book, the cam in the 3.5 hotwire (14CUX) is
>>the same cam as the 3.5 "flapper type" (4CU), so if you fitted the spare
>>3.9
>>efi cam then you'd be relying on the airflow meter and ecu to correct the
>>fuelling as the profiles are different.
>>Now to confuse. Allegedly, some of the late 3.5 efi hotwires had the 3.9
>>cam, but I haven't found any reference to this anywhere official. Best to
>>stick a degree wheel on the front of the crank, whip off a rocker cover
>>and
>>have a look-see what your timing figures are. Pull the rocker shaft ass'y
>>out (offside is easiest obviously) and use the no. 6 piston as your
>>reference, it'll give the same tdc as no. 1 would have. Use the pushrod,
>>but
>>check for movement with the rocker removed as the valve spring will hold
>>the
>>follower partly closed and give you false timing figures otherwise.
>
> well, This one certainly hasn't got rafts of low-rev torque. There again,
> it's a non-standard stainless exhaust (make unknown, except that it don't
> look like super-high quality) which may well be tuned for more revs and
> less
> torque, if the exhaust can make that much difference to a 3.5... Sounds
> nice at full-ish chat, mind, above 3K revs there's a nice rasp to it...
>
> 'ere, 'nother thing you might know... Some hotwires are fitted with lambda
> sensors, and some ain't. can the ones without have them added, or is it a
> different ECU? I wouldn't mind putting lambda sensors on it so I could
> upgrade the gas system to closed loop - it's a bit thirsty on open loop,
> typically about 13 mpg if I'm lucky and don't floor it too often. It'd be
> neat, in a way, if the same lambdas could also talk to the petrol ECU.
>
You need to fit an efi harness with the lambda wiring in it, they don't all
have it!, and the lambda probes themselves, obviously, then fit the correct
tune resistor (located in the harness next to the ecu) to utilise the
correct mapping in the ecu. The rangie factory manual lists the tune
resistors somewhere, I'll dig 'em out later if I get a chance.
Bear in mind that the landy lambda probes aren't the basic common 0-1volt
types, they are some weird 5-0v inverse reading probes or summat like and
hence dearer!
Fit an AEB Leonardo control unit for your gas, weld a boss into one of your
downpipes, fit a std 0-1v probe, get a lead (£50) and software (Normally
free, talk to me if any probs) and set it up using a laptop, or pc if you
can get close enough. You'll probably be cheaper than mucking about with the
efi system, and you'd still need a gas controller that can read lambda. Try
a bunch called Autogas Worldwide, they're in your part of the world
somewhere I think.
Badger.

On or around Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:47:12 GMT, "Richard" <richardsemail
[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>This is getting too confusing now. Perhaps I should just use a standard cam.
>Richard
>

if you use the right one for your engine config, you'll not go far wrong. I
rather doubt that *just* changing the cam ever has that much effect. You
also need to do the whole engine tuning thing, bigger carbs, different jets,
free-flow exhaust, gasflow the heads, up the compression... 's a big list.
Granted, at the end of the tunnel is a 200BHP engine, or somesuch, or more,
depending on how you set it up. Then again, do you *really* want a
race-tuned engine that does sod-all under 3000 rpm in yer rangie?

While granting that *if* you find an expert, I daresay they can build an
engine that allows you to lug treestumps out of the ground at tickover.
Such engine probably has modest peak power and revs out at about 4500,
though.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"'Tis a mad world, my masters" John Taylor (1580-1633) Western Voyage, 1

On or around Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:56:04 +0000 (UTC), "Badger"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>You need to fit an efi harness with the lambda wiring in it, they don't all
>have it!, and the lambda probes themselves, obviously, then fit the correct
>tune resistor (located in the harness next to the ecu) to utilise the
>correct mapping in the ecu. The rangie factory manual lists the tune
>resistors somewhere, I'll dig 'em out later if I get a chance.
>Bear in mind that the landy lambda probes aren't the basic common 0-1volt
>types, they are some weird 5-0v inverse reading probes or summat like and
>hence dearer!

heh. trust LR...

>Fit an AEB Leonardo control unit for your gas, weld a boss into one of your
>downpipes, fit a std 0-1v probe, get a lead (£50) and software (Normally
>free, talk to me if any probs) and set it up using a laptop, or pc if you
>can get close enough. You'll probably be cheaper than mucking about with the
>efi system, and you'd still need a gas controller that can read lambda. Try
>a bunch called Autogas Worldwide, they're in your part of the world
>somewhere I think.

that's probably the way to go, as and when - it'd only be worth doing the
petrol bit if I were going to run a lot on petrol or it was easy and
required no extra effort.

Still, I might yet get to build the transit-LR hybrid, and then all bets are
off anyway, on the current one, as I'd most likely have to sell it.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"'Tis a mad world, my masters" John Taylor (1580-1633) Western Voyage, 1