Tubeless tyres on tube type rims?

I have recently been researching tyres as the ones fitted to my Series 3 SWB are quite far worn down, and also quite old.

These wheels and tyres were fitted when I bough the vehicle back in 2012.

They are size 205R16 fitted to steel wheels marked FV2000727 5.50Fx16x33. From what I have read, these were factory fitted to later Series 3 109s, and were designed to be used with tubed tyres.

The tyres fitted to the wheels are branded Nankang Wide Conqueror. These are all marked as tubeless, but fitted to what I think are tubed tyre wheels. Is it possible that these tyres have had tubes fitted inside them?

I was hoping to go for more original looking tyres, from what I have read, there are more options for these types in 7.50R16. Apparerently this size was factory fitted to 109s, with 88s being fitted with 6.00 x 16 tyres. I have read that there are not many tyres available in the 6.00in size today. Do tubeless wheels even exist in the 6.00in type?

Thanks for any replies.

I fitted modern defender wheels to my 109. They are tubeless and as such they offer a better range of tyre options. They also improved the vagueness of the steering a little. If you have tubeless tyres on rims designed for tubes, I imagine they must have tubes in them.

Col

Tubeless tyres on wheels designed for tubes is dangerous. The tyres will not be sitting securely against the inside rim. A tubeless wheel has a rim on the inside to hold the tube secure. You should be able to tell if there are tubes fitted by looking at the valve.

The old crossply 600x16 tyre as fitted to series landy's while still available are now quite expensive. My old Rice cattle/horse box had the landrover type fitted from new but now a full new set was needed and would have cost well over £300 .

I fitted a set of radial van tyres for a lot less.

Had to fit tube's by the way as trailer has old type landy wheels.

You can run tubeless tyres with a tubed rim but ONLY if a tube IS still fitted. Your should be able to tell if a tube is fitted by looking at the valve.

As previously stated in the thread it not safe to run a tubeless tyre on tubed rims without tubes. The picture below (taken from google off another land rover forum) shows the difference between a tubed and a tubeless rim @John s is talking about. The tubeless rim is on the left and has an additional ridge each side to keep the bead securely in place which the tubed rim does not have as the tube keeps the bead securely in place.




The difference between tubed and tubeless TYRES is the inside surface of the tyre. Tubed tyres tend to have a smooth inner surface where are tubeless tyres will have molding ridges on the inside. With these there is a very small risk of friction between the tyre and the tube causing punctures. But as tubed tyres are harder to come by as you have found and there are several tyres that state they can be used both tubed and tubless this is nothing really to worry about. I currently run 750 Michelin ZXLs on the sereis III. These are fitted to tubed rims with tubes as they state they can be used with either. But before that I had a set of 205 kuhmo tyres fitted again with tubes and the are a tubeless tyre.

It is not the tyre which dictates how it needs to be fitted it it is the wheel rim. If it is a tubed rim it needs to have a tube in the tyre regardless of what tyre is fitted And you can use a tube with tubeless tyre as long as it is fitted to a tubed rim.

I had a similar problem: My inner tubes were cheap nasty things and I had no confidence in them. I wanted to fit some new Michelin tyres to my 109 and I decided that I wanted to keep them tubeless. New inner tubes were at the time about £18 each for more cheap ones and about £25 each for Michelin tubes. Set that against the fact that I could buy brand new Modular rims for £35 each and I decided that an extra £10 per wheel was well worth the gain. Haven't regretted the decision, the Modulars fill the wheel arches nicely and look good. I bought 5 rims so I don't have to worry about the spare either. You have an 88 on 600s so you have a slightly different decision to make unless you go bigger tyres.

As others have said: it isn't safe going tubeless on tube type rims, not only that but it is also illegal according to EU rules and very probably UK rules too.

Thanks for the replies.

One of the tyres actually has a puncture at the moment. I will know more about the tube situation when I take it into my local tyre fitters.

Does anyone know for sure if tubeless 6in rims were or are available? I am wondering wether to go back to the original size or go with 7.50R16.

Also, what do people think of remoulded tyres? There seem to be quite a few for sale out there in Land Rover suitable sizes.

Modern remould are very good, gone are the days of the the whole tread peeling off or the blocks detaching. I had had some remoulds before the Kuhmos which came with the vehicle. The only reason tyhey were replaced is bacuse they were begining to crack.
If it was me I would go for the 6.5 rim (preferably HD) and 7.50's but im biased becasue that is what I have. As to tubes or not I do not think there is that much diference. Personally I have more confidence in changing the tube myslef if there is a puncture rather than repairing a tubless trye. That is the only differance fo me.

It is worth going for the 6.5 rim, it gives you more tyre choice. I run 235/85 16 BFGs, they are really nice on the road and can be run tubed or tubeless. I have tubes in them on tubed rims. The late LWB and early Defender rims (which is what I beleive I have - it too dark to go and get the number) will run the 235/85, I was doubltfull at first but I looked at a few Defenders in service (REME museum was very handy) and found that they often had the 235/85s on the std rims so I tried it and they have been good. Do not get crossplys, they are truely awful to drive on the road, tramline and have zero wet grip. Be carefull when looking at 7.50/16s as this is a crossply size but there are 7.50/16 radials but don't assume anything, a couple of years ago someone posted that they had got a great deal on 7,50/16s only to find they were cross plys when they arrived, there must be old stock about.

dag019 said:

Modern remould are very good, gone are the days of the the whole tread peeling off or the blocks detaching. I had had some remoulds before the Kuhmos which came with the vehicle. The only reason tyhey were replaced is bacuse they were begining to crack.
If it was me I would go for the 6.5 rim (preferably HD) and 7.50's but im biased becasue that is what I have. As to tubes or not I do not think there is that much diference. Personally I have more confidence in changing the tube myslef if there is a puncture rather than repairing a tubless trye. That is the only differance fo me.

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I can't believe there are people about who even consider repairing their own punctures. I tried like hell to get an old tyre off a rim and gave it up as a bad job. For what the tyre fitting place charges, I'll let them do it every time.

Col

there are tube type tyres still on the market in favourable design and sizes to suite landrovers. (the radial version of general super all grip, avon rangemaster, and goodyear G90 are some that i have personally used)

I carry a spare tube so it can be fitted if I get a puncture. One of the benfits of a tubed tyre is and rim is the tyre comes off easier and if you are in the middle of nowhere you can jack a tyre off against the chassis to the swap tubes. Obviously having a tyre that comes off easily is a serious disadvantege in the time it takes to stop when a tubeless tyre / rim is a lot safer. Many years ago i had a puncture in a cross ply on an XK Jag doing 70, hit the brakes and was on the rim by 65mph, the rest of the stop was about staying the right way up, never mind on the same side of the road.

I'm running tubeless tyres on 5.5 in 109 tubed rims no problems ever, have deflated them off road never popped off

Thanks for the replies.

I now know that there is actually a tube in the tyre as it was repaired today.

Once I have found a set of suitable replacement tyres I will have the wheels sand blasted and re-sprayed. I know someone that can do this at a reasonable price.

Colthebrummie said:

I can't believe there are people about who even consider repairing their own punctures. I tried like hell to get an old tyre off a rim and gave it up as a bad job. For what the tyre fitting place charges, I'll let them do it every time.

Col

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It depends where you are when you get a puncture. If out in the middle of nowhere ornin foreign country itnis uselful to be able to swap a tube yourself. As said by rob1miles they are designed to be easier to change. Jack the bead off and then nice large set of leaver makes short work of it. If you are struggling it’s either wrong technique or wrong tools.
Interestingly HGV tyres are still fitted manually. They breaks the bead with a wedge and a sledge hammer and then use large tyre leavers to remove them. A good fitter can do it quicker than the machine can and make it look far easier than it really is.

Tractor tyres are also removed and fitted manually,in the field if required.

When you say Jack the bead off, how do you do that exactly?

Colthebrummie said:

When you say Jack the bead off, how do you do that exactly?

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Put tyre on floor put jack on top of tyre orientated so it pushes the bead down, then jack up against something (the chassis for instance). Instead of lifting the car it will push the tyre down and break the bead open

flat said:

Put tyre on floor put jack on top of tyre orientated so it pushes the bead down, then jack up against something (the chassis for instance). Instead of lifting the car it will push the tyre down and break the bead open

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I'm going to give that a go. I've been whacking it with hammers and all sorts.

Col

High lift is good for this,done under landy's front bumper.