Trading Standards Question, and a rant!!! (long!)

Right, hows about this for a garage trying to rip you off.....

Bought the Disco (200TDi), came with a 3 month warranty, I have to pay 50%
of all costs.

Replaced the cambelt using the place where I bought it from (my usual
practice, then any comeback for cambelt its easily dealt with).

Coming back from Billing it popped the head gasket, so as the head gasket is
covered by the warranty, it duly went back.

Dealer has agreed to replace the head gasket under the warranty, pointed out
the 50/50 split. Okay, but I want to be able to inspect the engine when it
is stripped. Symptoms were overheating when towing, strong cankcase
compression, no pressurising of coolant, and no mayo in the oil.

Took them a week to get round to even compression testing it.....

They had the head off. Gasket had gone between no. 3 and the oilway, hence
compression. Bores in excellent condition, still with honing marks, so
suspect this engine had been subject to some work before I bought, as it
only did 1400 miles between MOT in Januay and purchase in July.

They ring me up today to say it is ready, 3 weeks after they took in......
That'll be £300 sir,
No £150 surely (i expected £300 max the final bill and then split 50/50,
based on the local LR dealer quote over the phone)
Oh no sir, we have had to a lot of work.
Really? I decided to go in and speak to face to face and find out what this
work was...
Yes, to remove the head on these you have to remove the cambelt and water
pump, the belt was all chewed up, and then we found it was one of those with
the cambelt problem, so we've fitted the repair kit to solve it from
happening again. (said cambelt has been "binned" and is not available for
inspection).
I pointed out that being a pushrod engine, the 200 TDi does not need the
cambelt to be removed as the head and cam are separate, and that the 200TDi
was not subject to the cambelt problems associated with the 300TDi. I then
proceeded to point out that I had used the same engine servicing place they
had got the head skimmed at, and knew their charge for a head skim and leak
test, and that is was less than £30, not nearly £100...
When I asked which head gasket they had fitted they looked blank, so I asked
about checking the piston protusion, and explained the 1, 2 and 3 hole
gaskets...
At this point I was told I did not know what I was talking about, the bloke
in the garage knew what he was doing, and that he had rebuilt several
engines.
I explained that this year so far I had completely rebuilt the engine in
SWMBO Suzi, re ringed a friend's V8, rebuilt a 3 bearing 2.25 and a 5
bearing 2.25 for other friend's, and had an EFi V8 waiting for my loving
attention to put in the hybrid as compression was low on its current engine.
I then dug out the HBOL which I had taken with me, read out the section
about head removal. Mechanic looked at the floor and went white...
They went quiet and told me they would serve small claims court papers on
me. I laughed, went to 2 local specialists where friends from my club work
and got signed statements on how to remove a head on a 200TDi, which I have
photocopied, and will be giving to the bloke tomorrow lunchtime. Obviously
I have the originals safe and secure.

If he refuses to back down, how do I play it from here? Straight down to
Trading Standards and let them deal with it?
Could I end up losing the Disco?, I have had to borrow my old dears Berlingo
while she and the old man are in France (stub axle on hybrid stuffed,
another story...) and they are back soon.
Why is this bloke and his mechanic such obvious numpties?

I may well end up removing the head once I have it back just to satisfy
myself that the job has been done right! Buggrit!

--
Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Vice Chairman, Newsletter Editor and Webmaster (how
much more....)
3.5V8 100" Hybrid, now LPG converted
Part owner of 1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, waiting on the appointment with
the nice man at the MOT station!
Suzuki SJ410 (Fiancée's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and
mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery (the Pug 106 is dead, long live the Pug)

Peterborough 4x4 Club http://www.peterborough4x4.co.uk

<snip>
> If he refuses to back down, how do I play it from here? Straight down to
> Trading Standards and let them deal with it?
> Could I end up losing the Disco?, I have had to borrow my old dears
Berlingo
> while she and the old man are in France (stub axle on hybrid stuffed,
> another story...) and they are back soon.
> Why is this bloke and his mechanic such obvious numpties?
>
> I may well end up removing the head once I have it back just to satisfy
> myself that the job has been done right! Buggrit!

Morning Si,

Step 1 - write a letter! you cant go wrong if you have set out your
problems in a letter to numptie. In the event that it toddles off to court,
you have dated proof (take two copies to the post office and get them to
date stamp them) of your concerns. Make sure you lay out in
non-threatening manner why yuou are unhappy, and what you believe the
correct course of action is.

Step 2 - whilst step 1 is being delivered, have a chat with trading
standards - very useful bods (at least warwickshire are). Last year we had
two successful prosecutions of people in the auto trade for selling unfit
for road vehicles. TS love this sort of thing, if there is legitmate high
cost, low value work being done.

Step 3 - you HAVE to let numnptie have the chance to put it right, but, this
also has to be to reasonable timescales - so him telling you "i'll do it
next year" is out of order - hello TS again.

Step 4- as annoying as it is, and I know I would want to lamp the basket
right now, dont do anything. keep calm, let him get worked up - and make
sure there are witnesses about if you go there - take a mate!

HTH

Si

Peterborough 4x4 Club http://www.peterborough4x4.co.uk

"Si Kellow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> <snip>
> > If he refuses to back down, how do I play it from here? Straight down
to
> > Trading Standards and let them deal with it?
> > Could I end up losing the Disco?, I have had to borrow my old dears
> Berlingo
> > while she and the old man are in France (stub axle on hybrid stuffed,
> > another story...) and they are back soon.
> > Why is this bloke and his mechanic such obvious numpties?
> >
> > I may well end up removing the head once I have it back just to satisfy
> > myself that the job has been done right! Buggrit!
>
> Morning Si,
>
> Step 1 - write a letter! you cant go wrong if you have set out your
> problems in a letter to numptie. In the event that it toddles off to
court,
> you have dated proof (take two copies to the post office and get them to
> date stamp them) of your concerns. Make sure you lay out in
> non-threatening manner why yuou are unhappy, and what you believe the
> correct course of action is.
>
> Step 2 - whilst step 1 is being delivered, have a chat with trading
> standards - very useful bods (at least warwickshire are). Last year we
had
> two successful prosecutions of people in the auto trade for selling unfit
> for road vehicles. TS love this sort of thing, if there is legitmate high
> cost, low value work being done.
>
> Step 3 - you HAVE to let numnptie have the chance to put it right, but,
this
> also has to be to reasonable timescales - so him telling you "i'll do it
> next year" is out of order - hello TS again.
>
> Step 4- as annoying as it is, and I know I would want to lamp the basket
> right now, dont do anything. keep calm, let him get worked up - and make
> sure there are witnesses about if you go there - take a mate!
>
> HTH
>
> Si

Letter has been duly written and handed to him. He in return handed me
papers for small claims because I am refusing to pay..... I'm going to love
this one!!! Had a friend from the local franchised dealer with me this
morning, wearing his workshop overalls too, seemed to take the bloke back a
bit.

The idiot is refusing to back down, so I have now talked to TS who rubbed
their hands with glee when I showed them everything. They photocopied
everything I had, even the page from the HBOL about head removal. Showing
them the engine number from the V5 and the cross reference from the HBOL
which shows 12L to be a 200TDi engine code, and the numbers for 300 TDi
engines produced an even bigger smile! When I then said he had served small
claims papers on me they rolled around clutching their sides, told me the
bloke was an idiot and would get some serious grief in the small claims...

They said they would be down to see him this afternoon or tomorrow morning,
and that I should expect a call from them tomorrow!

Will keep you all posted!

--
Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Vice Chairman, Newsletter Editor and Webmaster (how
much more....)
3.5V8 100" Hybrid, now LPG converted
Part owner of 1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, waiting on the appointment with
the nice man at the MOT station!
Suzuki SJ410 (Fiancée's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and
mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery (the Pug 106 is dead, long live the Pug)

> Letter has been duly written and handed to him. He in return handed me
> papers for small claims because I am refusing to pay..... I'm going to
love
> this one!!! Had a friend from the local franchised dealer with me this
> morning, wearing his workshop overalls too, seemed to take the bloke back
a
> bit.
>
> The idiot is refusing to back down, so I have now talked to TS who rubbed
> their hands with glee when I showed them everything. They photocopied
> everything I had, even the page from the HBOL about head removal. Showing
> them the engine number from the V5 and the cross reference from the HBOL
> which shows 12L to be a 200TDi engine code, and the numbers for 300 TDi
> engines produced an even bigger smile! When I then said he had served
small
> claims papers on me they rolled around clutching their sides, told me the
> bloke was an idiot and would get some serious grief in the small claims...
>
> They said they would be down to see him this afternoon or tomorrow
morning,
> and that I should expect a call from them tomorrow!
>
> Will keep you all posted!

Yes, please do! Toby

"<snip>
> Letter has been duly written and handed to him. He in return handed me
> papers for small claims because I am refusing to pay..... I'm going to
love
> this one!!! Had a friend from the local franchised dealer with me this
> morning, wearing his workshop overalls too, seemed to take the bloke back
a
> bit.
>
> The idiot is refusing to back down, so I have now talked to TS who rubbed
> their hands with glee when I showed them everything. They photocopied
> everything I had, even the page from the HBOL about head removal. Showing
> them the engine number from the V5 and the cross reference from the HBOL
> which shows 12L to be a 200TDi engine code, and the numbers for 300 TDi
> engines produced an even bigger smile! When I then said he had served
small
> claims papers on me they rolled around clutching their sides, told me the
> bloke was an idiot and would get some serious grief in the small claims...
>
> They said they would be down to see him this afternoon or tomorrow
morning,
> and that I should expect a call from them tomorrow!
>
> Will keep you all posted!
>
> --
> Simon Isaacs


Odds on his sis standard manouevere whenever someone says they aren't happy
is to produce a set of court papers - 98% of people usually cave in at this
point and cough up.

Told you TS loved this sort of thing ;-)

Good luck and keep us posted

Si

Simon Isaacs vaguely muttered something like ...

> Will keep you all posted!

Heheheh, better than Emmerdale ... Keep up the good work ..

--
Paul ...

(8(|) ... Homer Rocks

"A tosser is a tosser, no matter what mode of transport they're using."

"Simon Isaacs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Simon Isaacs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > Will keep you all posted!
> >
>
> Had a phone call from the garage this afternoon, I suspect after TS had
been
> down to look at the vehicle. He asked what I would like to happen with
the
> vehicle from this point on. He also offered to remove the head in the
> presence of TS, so I feel some backpedalling has happened.
>
> I have been in touch with the local engine repair specialist who have
> confirmed that they had a 200TDi from the garage, and that it was skimmed,
> pressure tested, and that they recut the valve seats so that the valves
were
> sat slightly further into the head to avoid valve to piston contact. I
have
> used this company several times, and have friends who have used them, and
> trust their work.
>
> I'm on holiday tomorrow and friday, so am going down at 9am to see the
head
> be lifted off to satisfy me that the work has been done correctly. I have
> also managed to obtain stem seals, and all three variants of the head
gasket
> once the piston protrusion has been measured.
>
> He still hasn't said that he is not taking me to SC, but I think by the
> weekend this will have changed!
>
> --
> Simon Isaacs

This would appear to be significant progress

Now, be careful he doesnt try and charge for all this fixing - afterall, you
have rejected work that is be its nature warrantable, so you should only
have to pay the basic bill (and at a more realistic level I feel)

Go get him!

Si

"Simon Isaacs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
<snip>
>
> Will keep you all posted!
>

Had a phone call from the garage this afternoon, I suspect after TS had been
down to look at the vehicle. He asked what I would like to happen with the
vehicle from this point on. He also offered to remove the head in the
presence of TS, so I feel some backpedalling has happened.

I have been in touch with the local engine repair specialist who have
confirmed that they had a 200TDi from the garage, and that it was skimmed,
pressure tested, and that they recut the valve seats so that the valves were
sat slightly further into the head to avoid valve to piston contact. I have
used this company several times, and have friends who have used them, and
trust their work.

I'm on holiday tomorrow and friday, so am going down at 9am to see the head
be lifted off to satisfy me that the work has been done correctly. I have
also managed to obtain stem seals, and all three variants of the head gasket
once the piston protrusion has been measured.

He still hasn't said that he is not taking me to SC, but I think by the
weekend this will have changed!

--
Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Vice Chairman, Newsletter Editor and Webmaster (how
much more....)
3.5V8 100" Hybrid, now LPG converted
Part owner of 1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, waiting on the appointment with
the nice man at the MOT station!
Suzuki SJ410 (Fiancée's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and
mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery (the Pug 106 is dead, long live the Pug)

Peterborough 4x4 Club http://www.peterborough4x4.co.uk

<snip>
> If he refuses to back down, how do I play it from here? Straight down to
> Trading Standards and let them deal with it?
> Could I end up losing the Disco?, I have had to borrow my old dears
Berlingo
> while she and the old man are in France (stub axle on hybrid stuffed,
> another story...) and they are back soon.
> Why is this bloke and his mechanic such obvious numpties?
>
> I may well end up removing the head once I have it back just to satisfy
> myself that the job has been done right! Buggrit!

Morning Si,

Step 1 - write a letter! you cant go wrong if you have set out your
problems in a letter to numptie. In the event that it toddles off to court,
you have dated proof (take two copies to the post office and get them to
date stamp them) of your concerns. Make sure you lay out in
non-threatening manner why yuou are unhappy, and what you believe the
correct course of action is.

Step 2 - whilst step 1 is being delivered, have a chat with trading
standards - very useful bods (at least warwickshire are). Last year we had
two successful prosecutions of people in the auto trade for selling unfit
for road vehicles. TS love this sort of thing, if there is legitmate high
cost, low value work being done.

Step 3 - you HAVE to let numnptie have the chance to put it right, but, this
also has to be to reasonable timescales - so him telling you "i'll do it
next year" is out of order - hello TS again.

Step 4- as annoying as it is, and I know I would want to lamp the basket
right now, dont do anything. keep calm, let him get worked up - and make
sure there are witnesses about if you go there - take a mate!

HTH

Si

> Letter has been duly written and handed to him. He in return handed me
> papers for small claims because I am refusing to pay..... I'm going to
love
> this one!!! Had a friend from the local franchised dealer with me this
> morning, wearing his workshop overalls too, seemed to take the bloke back
a
> bit.
>
> The idiot is refusing to back down, so I have now talked to TS who rubbed
> their hands with glee when I showed them everything. They photocopied
> everything I had, even the page from the HBOL about head removal. Showing
> them the engine number from the V5 and the cross reference from the HBOL
> which shows 12L to be a 200TDi engine code, and the numbers for 300 TDi
> engines produced an even bigger smile! When I then said he had served
small
> claims papers on me they rolled around clutching their sides, told me the
> bloke was an idiot and would get some serious grief in the small claims...
>
> They said they would be down to see him this afternoon or tomorrow
morning,
> and that I should expect a call from them tomorrow!
>
> Will keep you all posted!

Yes, please do! Toby

"Simon Isaacs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
<snip>
>
> Will keep you all posted!
>

Had a phone call from the garage this afternoon, I suspect after TS had been
down to look at the vehicle. He asked what I would like to happen with the
vehicle from this point on. He also offered to remove the head in the
presence of TS, so I feel some backpedalling has happened.

I have been in touch with the local engine repair specialist who have
confirmed that they had a 200TDi from the garage, and that it was skimmed,
pressure tested, and that they recut the valve seats so that the valves were
sat slightly further into the head to avoid valve to piston contact. I have
used this company several times, and have friends who have used them, and
trust their work.

I'm on holiday tomorrow and friday, so am going down at 9am to see the head
be lifted off to satisfy me that the work has been done correctly. I have
also managed to obtain stem seals, and all three variants of the head gasket
once the piston protrusion has been measured.

He still hasn't said that he is not taking me to SC, but I think by the
weekend this will have changed!

--
Simon Isaacs

Peterborough 4x4 Club Vice Chairman, Newsletter Editor and Webmaster (how
much more....)
3.5V8 100" Hybrid, now LPG converted
Part owner of 1976 S3 LWT, Fully restored, waiting on the appointment with
the nice man at the MOT station!
Suzuki SJ410 (Fiancée's) 3" lift kit fitted, body shell now restored and
mounted on chassis, waiting on a windscreen and MOT
Series 3 88" Rolling chassis...what to do next
1993 200 TDi Discovery (the Pug 106 is dead, long live the Pug)

Peterborough 4x4 Club http://www.peterborough4x4.co.uk

On Wednesday, in article
<[email protected]>
[email protected] "Si Kellow"
wrote:

> "<snip>
> > Letter has been duly written and handed to him. He in return handed me
> > papers for small claims because I am refusing to pay..... I'm going to
> love
> > this one!!! Had a friend from the local franchised dealer with me this
> > morning, wearing his workshop overalls too, seemed to take the bloke back
> a
> > bit.
> >
> > The idiot is refusing to back down, so I have now talked to TS who rubbed
> > their hands with glee when I showed them everything. They photocopied
> > everything I had, even the page from the HBOL about head removal. Showing
> > them the engine number from the V5 and the cross reference from the HBOL
> > which shows 12L to be a 200TDi engine code, and the numbers for 300 TDi
> > engines produced an even bigger smile! When I then said he had served
> small
> > claims papers on me they rolled around clutching their sides, told me the
> > bloke was an idiot and would get some serious grief in the small claims...
> >
> > They said they would be down to see him this afternoon or tomorrow
> morning,
> > and that I should expect a call from them tomorrow!
> >
> > Will keep you all posted!
>
>
> Odds on his sis standard manouevere whenever someone says they aren't happy
> is to produce a set of court papers - 98% of people usually cave in at this
> point and cough up.
>
> Told you TS loved this sort of thing ;-)
>
> Good luck and keep us posted

Yes, he must have done this before...

But it sounds like you're the 99th customer. It sounds a little hasty
of him; it's usually recommended to give a written warning, pay up by
[date] or else. Right from the start he's weakening his case.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"History shows that the Singularity started when Sir Tim Berners-Lee
was bitten by a radioactive spider."

"Simon Isaacs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Simon Isaacs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > Will keep you all posted!
> >
>
> Had a phone call from the garage this afternoon, I suspect after TS had
been
> down to look at the vehicle. He asked what I would like to happen with
the
> vehicle from this point on. He also offered to remove the head in the
> presence of TS, so I feel some backpedalling has happened.
>
> I have been in touch with the local engine repair specialist who have
> confirmed that they had a 200TDi from the garage, and that it was skimmed,
> pressure tested, and that they recut the valve seats so that the valves
were
> sat slightly further into the head to avoid valve to piston contact. I
have
> used this company several times, and have friends who have used them, and
> trust their work.
>
> I'm on holiday tomorrow and friday, so am going down at 9am to see the
head
> be lifted off to satisfy me that the work has been done correctly. I have
> also managed to obtain stem seals, and all three variants of the head
gasket
> once the piston protrusion has been measured.
>
> He still hasn't said that he is not taking me to SC, but I think by the
> weekend this will have changed!
>
> --
> Simon Isaacs

This would appear to be significant progress

Now, be careful he doesnt try and charge for all this fixing - afterall, you
have rejected work that is be its nature warrantable, so you should only
have to pay the basic bill (and at a more realistic level I feel)

Go get him!

Si