Tonk is over heating

Hi All, this is a repeat of the post with which I introduced myself. Always wanted and now I've got one, a 50 yr old Tonka (Series 2a 88 in with 88k on clock) to be known henceforth as Tonk. We got nearly halfway home, about 96 miles, but he decided that 200 miles in one hit after 700 miles in the last 3 years was too much to ask. Blew a hole in the overflow pipe from radiator to expansion bottle, replaced the pipe, topped up, ran for 15 minutes before moving off, all seemed well, then within a handful of miles started blowing steam from radiator cap. Oh well, I went in with eyes open. Helped home by good wrecker driver, George, (thanks mate)! I reckon, after talking to some experienced L/R users, that a good flush, it's all cruddy and dirty in the radiator, replace pipes which appear to be originals, replace thermostat and I'll be good to go.

An update. Yesterday afternoon I tried to do the above, using a Haynes manual, where the advice was to drain from both block and rad, using drain taps. Can't find them. Any clues anyone? Anyway having failed to locate drain taps I decided to remove all rad hoses and thermostat and run water through both block, via thermostat opening, once thermostat was out, and I got clean (ish) water eventually from the block and repeated with the radiator, hose in top and then bottom. I then replaced all hoses, filled up with coolant and water, while running, as advised, after about half an hour when running temperature achieved, hose down to block from thermostat was blowing steam, I established that the jubilee clip had not been sited correctly and tightened it up correctly. However water/coolant is now again very dirty. Do I need to use some sort or radiator flushing agent, and if so which one, I've heard horror stories, and should I remove the radiator completely, due to lack of taps. so I can invert it to back flush.
Apologies for very long post on a Sunday morning...

Grateful for any other words of wisdom.
Thanks
spins

Everything you have done so far is good but I think you might need to consider that the head gasket might be leaking. It sounds to me like it might be over-pressurising and it would be quite common for an engine that is so little used to blow its head gasket when asked to go on a long journey due to corrosion at the joint. I suggest you investigate further.

It could be that the old hoses are perished from the inside causing the crud and dirty water. Try replacing all of them.

Col

Extreedoc said:

Everything you have done so far is good but I think you might need to consider that the head gasket might be leaking. It sounds to me like it might be over-pressurising and it would be quite common for an engine that is so little used to blow its head gasket when asked to go on a long journey due to corrosion at the joint. I suggest you investigate further.

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Thank you Col , not really what I want to hear even though I know it's a possibility... I suppose the best way to find out is a compression test, but I think I still need to clear the crud out of the radiator etc.

Is there any way to tell other than compression testing?

spins

It wasn't me that said that but Extreedoc makes a good point. I'd be checking the hoses, give em a squeeze, if they feel squishy they need replacing. Hoses can look ok but be rotting from the inside.

Col

Colthebrummie said:

It wasn't me that said that but Extreedoc makes a good point. I'd be checking the hoses, give em a squeeze, if they feel squishy they need replacing. Hoses can look ok but be rotting from the inside.

Col

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Thanks Col, brain and fingers not awake this morning. I'm going to be up to my elbows in it again today so I'll see what transpires.
spins

Rad needs removing to give it a good flush, then you can have another go at engine at the same time

spins said:

Thank you Col , not really what I want to hear even though I know it's a possibility... I suppose the best way to find out is a compression test, but I think I still need to clear the crud out of the radiator etc.

spins

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A compression test won't necessarily tell you anything... might... might not. Sometimes it's very difficult to diagnose and sometimes the symptoms are classic. Keep doing the clean-out and rule out every thing else until all that can be left is the head gasket. Col is quite right, you should renew all the hoses, but I think you said you already had...?
Regarding flushing, there are various agents sold and I've heard of folks using dishwasher chemicals and even plumbers system flushing chemicals as well.
Don't worry about changing the head gasket, it's not a hard job but will you be able to decoke and grind in the valves if you need to? Might as well do the job right. Got a torque wrench?

Extreedoc said:

A compression test won't necessarily tell you anything... might... might not. Sometimes it's very difficult to diagnose and sometimes the symptoms are classic. Keep doing the clean-out and rule out every thing else until all that can be left is the head gasket. Col is quite right, you should renew all the hoses, but I think you said you already had...?
Regarding flushing, there are various agents sold and I've heard of folks using dishwasher chemicals and even plumbers system flushing chemicals as well.
Don't worry about changing the head gasket, it's not a hard job but will you be able to decoke and grind in the valves if you need to? Might as well do the job right. Got a torque wrench?

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Sorry to jump in..
Certain dishwasher chemicals can corrode brass and aluminium parts.. will find out what chemicals they are, just we do a lot of ornamental metalwork and use different products to gain Patinas and artificial aging and there one comon chemical in some detergents that eat those two!! Will check in my file !!

Extreedoc said:

Got a torque wrench?

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not until about an hour from now...
spins

I’m back!!
Aparantly it’s the “salts” that create galvanic corrosion! Just some notes I have written down .. I’m not a chemist so please correct me if I’m wrong!! We just go on trail and error!!!

Extreedoc said:

A compression test won't necessarily tell you anything... might... might not. Sometimes it's very difficult to diagnose and sometimes the symptoms are classic. Keep doing the clean-out and rule out every thing else until all that can be left is the head gasket. Col is quite right, you should renew all the hoses, but I think you said you already had...?
Regarding flushing, there are various agents sold and I've heard of folks using dishwasher chemicals and even plumbers system flushing chemicals as well.
Don't worry about changing the head gasket, it's not a hard job but will you be able to decoke and grind in the valves if you need to? Might as well do the job right. Got a torque wrench?

Click to expand...

A more considered reply.
Last time I changed a head gasket was in 198something. I had old C reg (1963 and I paid £22 for it, wish I still had it now!!) Fiat 500. So I have form in this area...How difficult can it be??? And as you say, I can give the whole top of the engine a spruce up. I am reasonably competent, any thoughts on roughly how long it should take? Won't hold anyone to anything, just been a while since I got my hands dirty.

Thank you all for input and help/advice.
spins

Well you have had your first experience of the Hanes book of lies.A proper workshop manual is a great help.
Have you tried running it without the thermostat or with a new one fitted?
Removing and refurbing a series2 head is straight forward job.Might be good to have a mate help lift it off and on though.

spins said:

Blew a hole in the overflow pipe from radiator to expansion bottle,

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Thats strange, this shouldn't be pressurised, its a simple overflow tank vented to atmosphere. I would check to make sure that vent pipe is clear.

tottot said:

Well you have had your first experience of the Hanes book of lies.A proper workshop manual is a great help.
Have you tried running it without the thermostat or with a new one fitted?
Removing and refurbing a series2 head is straight forward job.Might be good to have a mate help lift it off and on though.

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Fitted new 82 degree thermostat yesterday along with hoses.
Got a 17 yr old son who wants Tonk when he can prise the keys from my cold dead hands so he's learning on the job as it were!
spins

Have a look at this thread on LRUK; I hope I'm not breaking any rules by posting this here? Good talk about flushing and what to use. Posts 9 and 15 are particularly interesting.
https://www.lrukforums.com/threads/over-heating-2-1-4-diesel.202332/#post-1553538
How long if it comes to head off? You should be able to do it in a day if you've got all the kit but make sure of everything else before getting too drastic.

Extreedoc said:

Have a look at this thread on LRUK; I hope I'm not breaking any rules by posting this here? Good talk about flushing and what to use. Posts 9 and 15 are particularly interesting.
https://www.lrukforums.com/threads/over-heating-2-1-4-diesel.202332/#post-1553538
How long if it comes to head off? You should be able to do it in a day if you've got all the kit but make sure of everything else before getting too drastic.

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Thanks for this, I don't think cross referencing/quoting other forums (fora?) is too bad, 'cross fertilisation is always a good thing, improves both and diminishes neither! I do it all the time on other forums. and re do everything else first, that's my intention. I know from bitter experience and Occam's razor (ish): If all the other options have been explored then what's left is the answer...
spins

He is obviously short of a good beating. Had it too easy for far too long. Tear as much as possible off him then hammer it back on.

He’ll learn.

Btw. You can get too much pressure if the second overflow pipe is blocked. The one from overflow tank to floor. It’s that tight bend that does it. Kinks ya see.

The problem with flushing is it gets rid of 10 years worth of radweld. Be prepared for a new radiator

Bobsticle said:

He is obviously short of a good beating. Had it too easy for far too long. Tear as much as possible off him then hammer it back on.

He’ll learn.

Btw. You can get too much pressure if the second overflow pipe is blocked. The one from overflow tank to floor. It’s that tight bend that does it. Kinks ya see.

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I thought you were referring to my son was short of a good beating, until I read it for the third time, probably right anyway...
I'll have a look at the overflow pipe.

Thanks
spins