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TD5 Cutting Out/Hard to Start

Discussion in 'General Land Rover Forum' started by bankz5152, Nov 15, 2021.

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  1. bankz5152

    bankz5152 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Something wrong with my 110.

    Its cutting out totally randomly when driving and hard to start.

    When it does cut out i have to leave it for a bit, then crank and eventually after a few goes cranking it will eventually start and run.

    Also appears to misfire, then power drops off and wont rev properly. Then dies.

    It has been misfiring a bit as well, also appears to be overfuelling.

    I did change the injector seals 2 months ago or so, ran perfectly for about a month then started being hard to start again.

    Hot or cold doesnt matter.

    No oil in the ecu and fitted a new G rated harness.

    Pump is a bit noisy, more than it should be.

    Its more smokey (black) than it usually is.

    No fault codes showing.

    Doing a fuel purge doesng change its ability to start.

    Any suggestions?
     
  2. neilly

    neilly Well-Known Member Full Member

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    @bankz5152

    My guess is CPS,

    Mine did the same, starts to fail by being hard to start when warm.
    Then fails. Stops running, wait 10 minutes for it to cool and viola it will run for another 5 miles, then stops...etc etc.etc .

    Cheers
     
  3. bankz5152

    bankz5152 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I may have found the problem.

    Looks like a split seal on the top of the fuel filter, causing it to draw in air and cause all my problems.

    New fuel pumps been fitted as well, started on the button and drove 20miles home without issue.

    received_193880656284149.jpeg
     
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  4. bankz5152

    bankz5152 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    So while that improved things its still not fixed.

    Runs better but still cutting out!!!

    To add.

    When it is about to cut out, you can feel it. Revs drop slightly, power drops off and its starts to judder. Then dies and becomes very hard to restart.

    This morning took 3 goes of cranking for at least 30 seconds. When it finally did start, it was very slow and took a while to catch.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2021
  5. Brown

    Brown Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Is it showing any error codes? Peak charge long, that sort of thing? Have you any way of testing the fuel pressure? Just so as to make sure it builds up quickly to 60 psi when the ignition is switched on.

    Sounds like you've looked at all the 'mechanical' things like fuel feed or injector sealing.

    Don't forget the ECU itself. They're getting old now, and fail in odd ways. Last autumn I had a spell of poor starting and rough running which I traced to a faulty ECU. It had previously been repaired by ECU Testing, so they looked at it again under warranty and actually gave me my money back when they couldn't repair it. Having had more ECUs fail than I've had flat tyres in my decade or so of TD5 ownership, I now carry two. One plugged in and the other as a spare in the cubby box. This is also useful as a diagnostic device in that I can swap the ECU over and if a fault is present in both cases I know it's probably not the ECU.
     
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  6. Disco1BFG

    Disco1BFG Well-Known Member Full Member

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    +1 - Can you look at live data from it ? .....
     
  7. bankz5152

    bankz5152 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    No fault codes listed.

    Live date doesnt reveal anything out of the ordinary but ill upload it later anyway.

    No way of checking fuel pressure, though open to buying tools.if needed.

    Not checked the CPS yet as only replaced it in Sept, though I will look again.

    Strange as when I changed the fuel pump & filter last night, fired up straight away, nice quiet pump. Left it running for 30 mins, no issues. Drove home and again no problem. Both hot and cold starts fine.

    This morning it was hard to start, then cut out a few miles later.
     
  8. neilly

    neilly Well-Known Member Full Member

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    When it does it again, plug in the diagnostics and check the CPS read out. IIRC it should be 280?? , but a long time since I looked.

    You can always do a quick and easy flow check from the fuel pump, see how much comes out of the feed pipe to the FPR in say 15 secs.

    Cheers
     
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  9. JUKE179r

    JUKE179r Well-Known Member Full Member

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    If a bad Td5 CPS is anything like a bad V8 CPS, it won't show RPMs on the instrument cluster.
     
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  10. Brown

    Brown Well-Known Member Full Member

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    For what it's worth my experience of the CPS is that one that's in the process of going wrong might leave you with 'high speed crank error' messages on the Nanocom and may yield some weird cylinder balance values (as high as the 20s) when driving. Yes, the revs when turning the engine over on the starter are typically somewhere in the region of 270 rpm so spot on @neilly! Then around 750 on tickover.

    It's perfectly possible for a TD5 ECU to look fine on the Nanocom but still be useless when it comes to starting the car. It's happened to me. The Nanocom is only a guide to what might be wrong. Much better than fencing in the dark, but not definitive.

    With a new fuel pump and filter it's likely that the fuel pressure is adequate. I just got a cheap fuel pressure gauge off Amazon, as they're useful things to have with a TD5 in the household. Fortunately it came with the kind of clip-on push-fit connectors used by the TD5's fuel pipes so I put it where the fuel input pipe goes into the pressure regulator and check what's being delivered there.
     
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  11. bankz5152

    bankz5152 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Thanks for all the replies.

    Coming to think of it I did one onr highspeed crank error on the nano a few weeks ago, cleared it and it never returned so didnt think anything of it. However will change it back to the old one

    Current list to check before I send it off -
    [ ] Fuel filter housing air bleed valve
    [ ] Inertia switch wiring
    [ ] Crank sensor wiring/crank sensor
    [ ] ecu connectors
    [ ] Check main earths
    [ ] Coolant temp sensor wiring
    [ ] Injector balances
    [ ] Check injectors
    [ ] Check relays
    [ ] Check compression
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2021
  12. Brown

    Brown Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Is there any more news on this? I'm always intrigued by malfunctioning TD5s because it may well happen to me one day.

    Another fault I've had in the past is deteriorating wiring between the accelerator pedal and the ECU. This didn't make it cut out, but meant that it was unresponsive to the accelerator and was only able to run at abouit 750-1000 rpm. So it would be worth having a look at what the Nanocom says the 'driver demand' is delivering too.
     
  13. bankz5152

    bankz5152 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Not yet @Brown between work, mrs birthday and no garage at the moment ive not had a chance. Though will limp my car to work on Sat and see what I can do there!

    The throttle pedal loom had previously worn thru and since been replaced.
     
  14. bankz5152

    bankz5152 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ok so changed the airbleed valve and fitted a new non return valve.

    No leaks and the pump is much quieter.

    Went for a 5mile run and no issues.

    Fuel pressure is at 4bar.

    Is it fixed? Who knows lol
     
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  15. bankz5152

    bankz5152 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    So far so good!

    Driven to and from work a few times. Seems ok now.
     
  16. bankz5152

    bankz5152 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Seems to be alright, just a little smokier than normal.

    I did notice this when I started up this morning. Seems to be a bit much for condensation, cleared after a couple mins of driving.

    Did not happen again when I started it 10 hours later to drive home.

     
  17. Brown

    Brown Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I can't seem to see the video, but are you talking about a lot of pale coloured smoke coming out of the exhaust for the first few hundred metres of driving? Mine does this too sometimes. It seems most apt to happen when it has been parked overnight in Wales so I did wonder about moisture in the system somewhere. But it happens on hot dry days and then I start it up on a cold wet day and it's clean as a whistle. Fortunately it always clears after about 500 metres so isn't too antisocial yet.

    Maybe it's just something that TD5s of a certain age do. . .
     
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  18. KISSMYAURA

    KISSMYAURA Well-Known Member

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    Looks like you have your you tube vids set to private mode :D cant view them, even if copy and past the url etc You tube says no- private!
     
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  19. bankz5152

    bankz5152 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Haha fixed!

    @Brown exactly that!
     
  20. Brown

    Brown Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Well, let me know if you manage to fix it!
    I wondered also if it was the start of an ECU failure, as it was smoky on start up through the summer of 2020 (always in Wales, never in Leicester) and then the ECU went bad in October. Then I put a second hand ECU in and didn't see any smoke for a while, but it's happened again over the last couple of months. Otherwise, the engine seems very smooth and powerful for something that's done 145000 miles.
     
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