Td4 engine sounds like a hedge cutter

the crank shaft has snapped between no 1 and no2 big end so its an engine out job, also found what looks like part of a shell bearing , will have to wait till i get it out and strip it down completely

dose anyone know if the td4 is prone to doing this

Mmm that will explain why you could turn the camshaft as no 1 piston probably wasn't at tdc when the timing pin was in.

I wouldn't say a broken crank is unheard of on these but don't think it's that common either.

There's a new Rover 75 crank on ebay, don't know if there are differences but you could ask the seller??

BRAND NEW ROVER 75 2.0 DIESEL CRANK SHAFT | eBay

do not just put a crank back in have it checked out by a engine rebuild company something has caused that I have never heard of a crank breaking

Did you have a lots of swarf around the pulley like I did and i that swarf was what looked like metal filings could this have been the woodruff key I though it might any way I got a new key from Landrover as it does list one and put it in BUT it goes flat face down onto the crank shaft torqed up 74Lbs or 100nm then 60 degrees then anothe 60 degrees then 30 simples

teddy there was no swarf the pulley just came apart, im now about to remove the engine , a replacement is on its way £500 so not to bad , i will strip it out and try to determine the cause of failure , but have a feeling a bearing has failed , i alao found a guy selling parts on ebay as his crank had snapped , mine had only done 110k miles and serviced regularly, so maybe just bad luck, i think the crank must be rather fragile, not like they use to make them,
chaser there are a lot of metal pieces when i removed the sump plate , and it had punched a hole through the bottom baffle plate, and looking like a bearing housing and shell pieces, so have decided to go with a replacement engine , , im sure there will be some salvageable parts from the old one , injectors are quite new etc

Cox are you sure it was the woodruff key that was the metal filings and not the metal on the pulley I took it as the woodruff key because when I took the pulley off there was no key now today I have been speaking to a landrover man who really knows his stuff on landrovers and he said it would have left somthing of the key BUT if there was no trace of one in there then it should not have one again if it has one in then it should be replaced I pointed out to him that there is only a slot on my crank and no half moon shape in it the reason I spoke to him today was after a bit of advice of here I pulled it all apart again and put a woodruff key in but yesterday after having a hose burst i was just checking things with the engin running and noticed my crankshaft pully all wobbley it was tight just sticking out a bit on one side and after thinking about it the key stuck out perhaps 1 mm at the most thats enough to make the pully stick out so tomorrow it comes out as advised be landrover man as aparently the end of the crank is shaped so as you tighten the stud it tightend up the pulley onto the shaft let you all know i need to get it doen because I am going over to my beloved Ireland and do about 2000 miles in a couple of weeks

teddywood1 said:

Cox are you sure it was the woodruff key that was the metal filings and not the metal on the pulley I took it as the woodruff key because when I took the pulley off there was no key now today I have been speaking to a landrover man who really knows his stuff on landrovers and he said it would have left somthing of the key BUT if there was no trace of one in there then it should not have one again if it has one in then it should be replaced I pointed out to him that there is only a slot on my crank and no half moon shape in it the reason I spoke to him today was after a bit of advice of here I pulled it all apart again and put a woodruff key in but yesterday after having a hose burst i was just checking things with the engin running and noticed my crankshaft pully all wobbley it was tight just sticking out a bit on one side and after thinking about it the key stuck out perhaps 1 mm at the most thats enough to make the pully stick out so tomorrow it comes out as advised be landrover man as aparently the end of the crank is shaped so as you tighten the stud it tightend up the pulley onto the shaft let you all know i need to get it doen because I am going over to my beloved Ireland and do about 2000 miles in a couple of weeks

Click to expand...

very intresting indeed.... I had no key, at all, just a space for it, and remains scattered everywhere of glitter!! The new one came with a key and if i remeber the old haynes bible mentions it too. maybe landy man was right. Perhaps i assumed that the key is supposed to go in. incidently the engine sounds sweet and the pulley does wobble alot more than the old one which was fooked. Although i changed mine over a year ago!! No problems though.

yes but think of that woble is doing to the belts I laid mine up until today as I did not want to go any futher in it for the fear of somthing happening and because I ordered a new landrover belt for the aircon i noticed there was a small crack in the new one already so will not be having none landrover belts in future I am going to mesure the distance all around the pully and I am going to note where it sticks out and look if it is inline with the key will let you know this man i know has worked for landrover all his life and knows more than the mechanics do as he advises them

well here is the updat if you have a wobble on your crankshaft pulley then take it off and remove that woodruff key it should not be there i know it may show one on the slides at your landrover agent but believe me there should not be one
Cox325 I mesured like I said I would and behold where it was the most out point was were the key was so I started to remove the pully and the bolt was very easy to undo not like the last time and when i took the pulley out and found the key was wedged in I knocked it out and wow! the key was a funny shape where the pulley had pressed it into the crank and it was still sticking out a bit so now all done and put back the engine sounds and runs a lot smoother and NO WOBBLE new belts on as well i just brought the long one as well and it is a good job I did as it had damaged the belts hope this helps you

hey, thanks for the heads up on that one, I think at the next earliest oppourtunity i'll whip iit off as you say. I suppose that the glittler must have been the breakdown of the previous pulley then.

also checked haynes, crankshaft pulley change on 1.8, td4 and other diesel, none of which mention any woodruff key, maybe its supllied for a DiscoTd5 engine dunno.

I did not get one with mine but should have come with one so got one of statstones wish I had not bothered now but now we know

ok , just to close this thread off, i have now fitted the replacement engine and all is working great,
i stripped the damaged engine and found the following
the crank had snapped at no 2 big end journal,
no 2 conrod had also come apart,
the top end valves piston crowns no signs of any damage and no contact between pistons and valves, ,
the engine had done 110k miles and no cylinder wear apparent,

so what i think had happened, was , the initial noise (hedge cutter noise ) was the crank breaking up, although it was still held in place by the big end bearing shell, the vibration , somehow loosened the exhaust camshaft pully and the engine stoped alltogether,
with all my efforts i eventually get the engine retimed and running, and the main crank pully falls apart, i then replace the pulley and run the engine , this is when the big end on number two piston comes apart and the engine finaly gives up, ,

i think fitting a replacement engine for £500 was the easiest solution, and im hopeing to sell a few parts from the old engine , such as injectors , cam cover ,fuel pump so this should lower the overall cost of the replacement engine ,
just glad its all running well again

Hi John,

My TD4 at 115k miles had exactly the same problem (2 weeks ago), a hedge cutter noise sums it up perfectly.

My limit is simple mechanics, upgrades and servicing so it's in the hands of a trusted garage. Their verdict was the crank/conrods and suggested looking at a replacement engine rather than spending money on investigation work. I too managed to source a low mileage replacement for £500, it's sat with the garage now ready for fitting.

We talked about salvaging parts so I was curious if there was anything else you managed to take off and sell? I was thinking about the MAF and EGR (I have a Pierburgh and an EGR bypass on mine). Is there anything else over what you mentioned? Would the a scrapper be interested in the metal lump that's left?

A couple of other questions about fitting:

1. The garage weren't sure if the pump is coded to the ECU, mine's a 2004 model, the donor engine is off a 55 model?
2. Will the diff need to come off?
3. Is there anything else worth checking?

Thanks!

hi chipfork, replacing the engine was relativly straight forward, you remove it as a unit, just lower it to the floor and drag it clear, the engine is removed with the gearbox and ird atached,
once the drive shafts have been withdrawn, and exhaust unbolted,propshaft unbolted, coolant drained and wiring harness disconnected its quite easy took me an evening to remove it ,
took a day to clean up replacement engine and transfer all the items, and a further day to refit and install all other components, it started first turn, mine came with the fuel pump, and was just a case of bolting on the gearbox and ird, i was takeing my time as i didnt want to forget anything ,
as for salvaging i got £15 for the engine block and crank, the engine block had a large hole where the con rod had tried to get out,
the guy who supplied my engine told me its quite common to have a snapped crank on the bmw m47 engine, the injectors are worth £200 a set, £50 for the cam cover, £120 for fuel pump, i would keep all the sensors as they might come in handy for fault diagnosis,
to be honest it was a good exersise doing the engine replacement as i have learned quite a lot , while i was at it i took the opertunity of replacing the turbo pipes and modifying the erg( cut out the inards), i have had the freelander for 7 years and see no reason to get shot of it , as it runs great ,37 mpg, although i wouldnt recomend buying one unless you are prepared to do the work yourself , so much has gone wrong in the last year, i feel i have almost been all the way around it regarding problems all the common faults, but im staying with it

john t

Hi John,

Thanks, all the info is much appreciated. An engine change is way beyond what I'd be able to do without a lot of help and equipment. Fortunately the garage I use are cheap and I trust them completely.

I haven't had my Freelander long, only problem had been the MAF. After the outlays on the engine and fitting I'll look to keep the car a good while longer, hopefully this engine holds up better.

Cheers,

Iain

Any pic's of the work discussed on this thread?

I think I have this crank shaft pully problem, I have glitter filings scattered everywhere, the pully looks as if it wobbling when on tick over or reved, It makes a horrible clattering sound, but if the engine is run with out the aux belt connected, its quiet as a mouse...so I pretty sure its this pully.

Now a few questions.

What the hell is a woodruff key?

How the hell do you get the bolt out, mine is. 22mm hex bolt, is it ok to wedge the wrench between the floor and crank over the engine to loosen it, as mentioned by someone in this post :thumbup:

How do I tighten it up again?, where do I lockup the flywheel? Rave does not show this?

That's again

I thought a woodruff key was a small block of generally metal that fits in a slot on a shaft and locates in a slot on a wheel of some sort that fits over the shaft. In short it provides drive between the shaft and the wheel.

hi you can get a lock up tool although it is only a piece of metal with holes drilled in it and you bolt it to the fly wheel and then to the engine all done when the starter motor is taken off I did make a tool that goes into the teeth like around the edge of the pulley but it has gone missing I lent it out and never got it back, and a woodruff key is a half moon shaped piece of metal that goes into a similar shaped hole and when the other part that goes onto the shaft also has a cut out and it stops it moving but you freelander does not need one .hope this helps

jedi said:

I think I have this crank shaft pully problem, I have glitter filings scattered everywhere, the pully looks as if it wobbling when on tick over or reved, It makes a horrible clattering sound, but if the engine is run with out the aux belt connected, its quiet as a mouse...so I pretty sure its this pully.

Now a few questions.

What the hell is a woodruff key?

How the hell do you get the bolt out, mine is. 22mm hex bolt, is it ok to wedge the wrench between the floor and crank over the engine to loosen it, as mentioned by someone in this post :thumbup:

How do I tighten it up again?, where do I lockup the flywheel? Rave does not show this?

That's again

Click to expand...

Thanks I did some googling too.I now know what a woodruff key looks like...

Is it only needed for cars that have timing pullys on thst side?

Would explain why I cant get one for my td4 and as you say td4s dont need one as no timing done of them pullys. Its just driving aux stuff.

Thanks again thats cleared things up in my head now