Tax n seats

Hi

I realise this is probably well known, but after several google searches I
have found no useful info, so here goes.

Second hand Defenders with no rear seats or windows seem much cheaper than
their 7 seater equivalents. I'm guessing its a tax thing.

Can a 3 seater have rear seats/windows fitted and if so, is there tax to
pay. Also are their any other issues (structural/safety/or legal for
instance) I should be aware of?

Cheers, Tod

so Tod was, like...
>> Second hand Defenders with no rear seats or windows seem much cheaper
> than their 7 seater equivalents. I'm guessing its a tax thing.

Assuming you are in the UK, then no. AFAIK, the rule used to be that vans
did not attract Purchase Tax (long ago) when cars with windows and seats
did. If you bought a van and fitted windows to the back, you technically
had to admit it to the tax people and pay the extra. Whether anyone did is
another question. But this is back in the 1960s. Defender vans (90 and
110) are often sold today without VAT, so there is another 17.5% to pay if
you are a private buyer. If you are not in the UK, none of this applies.
But mainly, not as many people want them, so they are cheaper.

> Can a 3 seater have rear seats/windows fitted

Yes, easily. The windows are an easy job if you are handy with a jigsaw.
Seats (simple bench seats or luxury forward-facing items) are readily
available and bolt in. The only headache might be getting seat belts to fit
and satisfy an MoT inspector.

HTH

--
Rich
==============================
Disco 300 Tdi auto
S2a 88" SW
Tiggrr (V8 trialler)

I think after something like 3 years or so it doesnt matter whether tax was
paid or not?
Richard



"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> so Tod was, like...
>>> Second hand Defenders with no rear seats or windows seem much cheaper
>> than their 7 seater equivalents. I'm guessing its a tax thing.
>
> Assuming you are in the UK, then no. AFAIK, the rule used to be that vans
> did not attract Purchase Tax (long ago) when cars with windows and seats
> did. If you bought a van and fitted windows to the back, you technically
> had to admit it to the tax people and pay the extra. Whether anyone did
> is another question. But this is back in the 1960s. Defender vans (90
> and 110) are often sold today without VAT, so there is another 17.5% to
> pay if you are a private buyer. If you are not in the UK, none of this
> applies. But mainly, not as many people want them, so they are cheaper.
>
>> Can a 3 seater have rear seats/windows fitted
>
> Yes, easily. The windows are an easy job if you are handy with a jigsaw.
> Seats (simple bench seats or luxury forward-facing items) are readily
> available and bolt in. The only headache might be getting seat belts to
> fit and satisfy an MoT inspector.
>
> HTH
>
> --
> Rich
> ==============================
> Disco 300 Tdi auto
> S2a 88" SW
> Tiggrr (V8 trialler)
>

Thanks Richard

That was very useful, and yes I am from th UK...Should have said..
One day I'll get the hang of these computer things..

Tod

In message <[email protected]>
"Richard" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I think after something like 3 years or so it doesnt matter whether tax was
> paid or not?
> Richard
>
>

It's not tax in the sense of number of seats = more/less tax, but there
*is* VAT. A hard top will, typically, be sold with a VAT content since
it will most likely have started out life in commercial use. A Station
Wagon most likey will not. The VAT rules, and who paid what and when is
stunningly complex, and it is possible that some innocent private
owner could get a visit from the VAT man demanding some money (not
very likely though). While I think I have some vague understanding of
the VAT rules for vehicles, the only people who can tell you for sure
are the VAT men themselves, unless some *really* knows any speculation
is likely to be very unhelpful.

As for putting side windows and seats in - well, that changes
the VAT situation for the vehicle as it goes from being a van to a car,
but what should be done about it I've no idea. There is no time limit
for how long something attracts VAT.

Richard

>
> "Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > so Tod was, like...
> >>> Second hand Defenders with no rear seats or windows seem much cheaper
> >> than their 7 seater equivalents. I'm guessing its a tax thing.
> >
> > Assuming you are in the UK, then no. AFAIK, the rule used to be that vans
> > did not attract Purchase Tax (long ago) when cars with windows and seats
> > did. If you bought a van and fitted windows to the back, you technically
> > had to admit it to the tax people and pay the extra. Whether anyone did
> > is another question. But this is back in the 1960s. Defender vans (90
> > and 110) are often sold today without VAT, so there is another 17.5% to
> > pay if you are a private buyer. If you are not in the UK, none of this
> > applies. But mainly, not as many people want them, so they are cheaper.
> >
> >> Can a 3 seater have rear seats/windows fitted
> >
> > Yes, easily. The windows are an easy job if you are handy with a jigsaw.
> > Seats (simple bench seats or luxury forward-facing items) are readily
> > available and bolt in. The only headache might be getting seat belts to
> > fit and satisfy an MoT inspector.
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > --
> > Rich
> > ==============================
> > Disco 300 Tdi auto
> > S2a 88" SW
> > Tiggrr (V8 trialler)
> >
>
>

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems

My knowledge may be out of date, but FWIW:-
VAT has to be paid on all new vehicles in the UK, but if the vehicle is
'commercial', the tax may be reclaimed by a VAT-registered business. The
difference between a 'car' and a 'van' is, or used to be, whether it had
either rear seats or side windows behind the driver. If neither, then it was
technically a van, and VAT could be reclaimed. I believe this has been
complicated by pick-ups with two rows of seats in the cab, but presumably it
doesn't apply here.
If either of these parameters is subsequently changed, i.e a van is
'converted', the fact must be declared to Customs and Excise, and
appropriate VAT paid. There was a vehicle age-limit on this: I have in mind
seven years, but I may well be wrong/out of date, so check the C&E website
or ring them for advice. But get it in writing - either a C&E leaflet or a
letter, if you are going to 'convert' a vehicle.

SFHL


"Richard Brookman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> so Tod was, like...
>>> Second hand Defenders with no rear seats or windows seem much cheaper
>> than their 7 seater equivalents. I'm guessing its a tax thing.
>
> Assuming you are in the UK, then no. AFAIK, the rule used to be that vans
> did not attract Purchase Tax (long ago) when cars with windows and seats
> did. If you bought a van and fitted windows to the back, you technically
> had to admit it to the tax people and pay the extra. Whether anyone did
> is another question. But this is back in the 1960s. Defender vans (90
> and 110) are often sold today without VAT, so there is another 17.5% to
> pay if you are a private buyer. If you are not in the UK, none of this
> applies. But mainly, not as many people want them, so they are cheaper.
>
>> Can a 3 seater have rear seats/windows fitted
>
> Yes, easily. The windows are an easy job if you are handy with a jigsaw.
> Seats (simple bench seats or luxury forward-facing items) are readily
> available and bolt in. The only headache might be getting seat belts to
> fit and satisfy an MoT inspector.
>
> HTH
>
> --
> Rich
> ==============================
> Disco 300 Tdi auto
> S2a 88" SW
> Tiggrr (V8 trialler)
>

On or around Fri, 5 Aug 2005 15:04:55 +0100, "Tony Atkinson"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>My knowledge may be out of date, but FWIW:-
>VAT has to be paid on all new vehicles in the UK, but if the vehicle is
>'commercial', the tax may be reclaimed by a VAT-registered business. The
>difference between a 'car' and a 'van' is, or used to be, whether it had
>either rear seats or side windows behind the driver. If neither, then it was
>technically a van, and VAT could be reclaimed. I believe this has been
>complicated by pick-ups with two rows of seats in the cab, but presumably it
>doesn't apply here.

There also used to be a thing called "Car tax" from which commercials were
exempt.

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; and
therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee"
John Donne (1571? - 1631) Devotions, XVII

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 19:15:45 GMT, "Tod" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Hi
>
>I realise this is probably well known, but after several google searches I
>have found no useful info, so here goes.
>
>Second hand Defenders with no rear seats or windows seem much cheaper than
>their 7 seater equivalents. I'm guessing its a tax thing.
>
>Can a 3 seater have rear seats/windows fitted and if so, is there tax to
>pay. Also are their any other issues (structural/safety/or legal for
>instance) I should be aware of?
>
>Cheers, Tod
>
Unless the rules have changed, this may be of use.

I bought my first 90 in 1991, it was a hard top. I enquired of HM
Customs and Excise as to the tax implications of fitting side windows
to the rear of the front seats. I was told that I was required to
inform C & E and if I remember correctly, they sent me a form to
complete. I asked if there would be anything to pay. I was told that
the purchase tax payable was related to the age of the vehicle up to 6
years(I think), after which there was nothing to pay. HOWEVER, it was
still a requirement that C & E be informed.

Since that 90 was registered in October 1984 it was over 6 years old.
So I submitted the required paperwork and subsequently received a
written confirmation of that. I kept this letter and passed it on to
the new owner when I eventually sold the 90 some years later, so I
can't go and check it for you.

There is another issue of course; and that is insurance! I also sent
the same documentation to my insurer, as the fitting of side windows
is a modification. I also included written confirmation that the
vehicle had had rear bench seats fitted by the previous owner.

I personally, have made sure that I have always informed my insurers
in writing(and kept a copy) of any modification made to my vehicles,
just to be on the safe side in the event of a claim.

Of course the rules may have changed, but I'd advise contacting your
local Customs & Excise office to find out for yourself.

HTH

Neil

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