Tappets

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Hamster97

Hamster97

Active Member
Posts
517
Location
Manchester
The previous noise that sounded a bit like a knock has now given itself away to be undoubtedly a tappet.
I removed the drivers side rocker cover and the rocker closest the front of the engine has a hell of a lot of movement in it, if had feeler gauges in there, it would maybe be around 5mm......lots of play in the rocker.

Question is, they were new followers 50 miles ago along with the cam, should I give them more time to bed in or whatever it is they're supposed to do?
Another member asked if I had primed them with an oil can through the hole before fitting, answer is no but they were sat in a tub of oil for 5 days soaking, I hoped that would do the job.

So, are they fooked or should I give them more time?

Cheers.
 
are you sure that the rocker shaft was torqued down correctly mate,, only asking cos i snapped a rocker shaft bolt when i refitted mine,, didnt notice till i started her up and she sounded like a bag of nails.. then the stealers would only sell me 5 bolts even tho i only needed one.. (so i got 4 spares if any one wants to buy some)
 
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:behindsofa:
Load of bollx...have fitted more than six rebuilt engines with new camshafts, followers, push rods, rocker shaft and tappets. In every case the tappets have gone quiet within less than a couple of minutes after initial start the priming has been as quick as that.
Yes "Dunking" the tappets in a bath of engine oil for a few hours prior to fitting is not a bad thing and should reduce the intial fill time when the engine is started.
Maybe you have a dodgy tappet or maybe the push rod(s) is not seated correctly.
Provided the camshaft lobes are not worn excessively, new tappets usually work from scratch and do not require a "Bedding or running in" period, unlike bearings, brake pads or pston rings.
 
Lol, ta mate.
After an inspection of the rockers/shaft I can say there doesn't seem to be anything snapped although the rocker shaft wasn't torqued, it was merely tightened.

I'm not entirely sure where to go and I don't like where it might lead and obviously, with the cam and followers only having done around 50 miles, I'm keeping my fingers crossed its neither of those.

My next move is remove the rocker cover, remove the rocker shaft and check the pushrod for being slightly bent and swapping it for the one next to it and seeing if the play swaps to another rocker. If not, check cam lift and pushrod height above the rocker gasket face using a vernier on the pushrod, if that proves ok, rocker shaft/rocker it is.

One way or the other, I'll know on Monday although if someone could suggest if this is normal for a new follower to appear to be stuck in, I'd try it for another 50 or so miles to see if it sorts itself out.

Cheers.

EDIT:

Obviously the last paragraph won't do me any good after reading the post from Irish....ta mate, the cam couldn't be excessively worn after so few miles surely?
Fett, thanks, all lubed up but maybe I'm dealing with faulty parts. We knew it would come to this mate lol.
 
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Hi Hamster....very unlikely the cam has worn especially as it's a new camshaft. I would put one hours drinking money on it !!!:beer2::beer2:
Seriously though, if the oil pressure light is going out quickly, the camshaft is well lubricated as are the crank bearings.
Gut feeling tells me you have a crap tappett.
If the rocker shaft posts have been pulled down and there is zero clearance between the post and the mating face on the cylinder head, despite the correct torque being aplied, ther should not be a problem. The hydraulic tappets have the ability to absorb a fair amount of wear/play
 
So being able to slide the pushrod up and down, seeing excessive movement is bad then?
The rocker also moves a lot but if there was no tension on the pushrod, this would be expected.
Would a worn rocker shaft cause visible excessive movement? If so, how when 1 side, the slack should be taken up by the pushrod and a valve being on the other side. Ruling out that the valve is fully closed, a worn shaft couldn't allow so much movement. Am I right?

So finally, this leaves only 2 culprits......the pushrod (fingers crossed) or the follower (supplied faulty maybe).
If its the last one, its a pain but I'd just like it to be sorted.

Thanks for the help and suggestions so far lads, appreciated.
 
Hamster97 said:
Lol, ta mate.
After an inspection of the rockers/shaft I can say there doesn't seem to be anything snapped although the rocker shaft wasn't torqued, it was merely tightened.

I'm not entirely sure where to go and I don't like where it might lead and obviously, with the cam and followers only having done around 50 miles, I'm keeping my fingers crossed its neither of those.

My next move is remove the rocker cover, remove the rocker shaft and check the pushrod for being slightly bent and swapping it for the one next to it and seeing if the play swaps to another rocker. If not, check cam lift and pushrod height above the rocker gasket face using a vernier on the pushrod, if that proves ok, rocker shaft/rocker it is.

One way or the other, I'll know on Monday although if someone could suggest if this is normal for a new follower to appear to be stuck in, I'd try it for another 50 or so miles to see if it sorts itself out.

Cheers.

EDIT:

Obviously the last paragraph won't do me any good after reading the post from Irish....ta mate, the cam couldn't be excessively worn after so few miles surely?
Fett, thanks, all lubed up but maybe I'm dealing with faulty parts. We knew it would come to this mate lol.
Click to expand...

with a landy, its never simple and normally the worst case scenario FFS
 
My Sister has found a new bottle of brandy hidden inside the upstairs toilet cistern...she said she was keeping it cool cos of the hot weather and to prevent loss by evaporation.
Looking at my priorities, I have decided to reply with a sensible reply in the morning !!!
 
New camshafts can be destroyed in five minutes if they are not properly lubed up on instalation. Always lub with STP or Wynns or the special cam lubricant you can get. Never just lub a new camshaft with engine oil. Asking for trouble.
 
wammers said:
New camshafts can be destroyed in five minutes if they are not properly lubed up on instalation. Always lub with STP or Wynns or the special cam lubricant you can get. Never just lub a new camshaft with engine oil. Asking for trouble.
Click to expand...

Errrrr, always used EP90 without a problem on high revving CVH race engines being used on short ovals for 5 years so did the same with this one.
Hope it isn't the cam as thats a much bigger job than just a follower.

Thanks, Irish and once again Fett, you did try and warn me lol.
 
Hamster97 said:
Errrrr, always used EP90 without a problem on high revving CVH race engines being used on short ovals for 5 years so did the same with this one.
Hope it isn't the cam as thats a much bigger job than just a follower.

Thanks, Irish and once again Fett, you did try and warn me lol.
Click to expand...

Then you did not just install it with engine oil that is fine. But the most important time for a new cam is within five to ten mins of initial start. It always pays to use STP or an equivalent, it does not run off like engine oil does. Hopefully it will just be a duff tappet.
 
wammers said:
Then you did not just install it with engine oil
Click to expand...

No mate, EP90, thanks for the reply.

Only thing I am dubious about is that I was always told to run the engine at 2000 rpm for 20 mins with a new cam but my mate who was providing the bulk of the 'expertise' and labour, doesn't believe in this method and allowed the engine to idle during the filling of the cooling system and the removal of air (burping) etc.
It has thrown an element of doubt onto the cam installation for me although I've never known one fail so badly in such a short time so fingers crossed although if it has failed, my mate says it was probably fooked to start with and needs to be returned to the supplier.

Cheers.
 
Hamster97 said:
No mate, EP90, thanks for the reply.

Only thing I am dubious about is that I was always told to run the engine at 2000 rpm for 20 mins with a new cam but my mate who was providing the bulk of the 'expertise' and labour, doesn't believe in this method and allowed the engine to idle during the filling of the cooling system and the removal of air (burping) etc.
It has thrown an element of doubt onto the cam installation for me although I've never known one fail so badly in such a short time so fingers crossed although if it has failed, my mate says it was probably fooked to start with and needs to be returned to the supplier.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

The first few seconds of running with a new cam can either set it for life or destroy it simple as that. They need to be coated with plenty of heavy lub, any goring in the first few seconds of running will destroy it. The time from startup to when the cam recieves engine oil is critical. That is why i say STP, it does not run off like oil does specialy if the time from build to first run is extended. It is not unknown for new cams to have a soft lobe but pretty rare. More often it is the way they have been first run that causes the problems.
 
get some moly slip in there if you do it again mate. sorry its a fooker. surprised it hasnt happend to me :doh: lol
 
Bit late for moly slip if its gone but one to bear in mind in future.
Stupid thisng is, my local parts accessory shop doesn't stock cam lube nor do any of the other 10 or 15 accessory shops.....bleedin useless the lot of em!!!

As I said, there isn't a chance the cam would have worn off just 1 lobe so quickly so I'm hedging my bets on a follower as much as I don't want it to be a follower.

Another mate suggested draining the oil and refilling with running in oil, run at fast idle for 15 - 20 mins then drain and refil with 10/40 semi synthetic (which is what it has in now)

Is he talking sense or out of his arse, he says its worked for him in the past.
 
Hamster97 said:
Bit late for moly slip if its gone but one to bear in mind in future.
Stupid thisng is, my local parts accessory shop doesn't stock cam lube nor do any of the other 10 or 15 accessory shops.....bleedin useless the lot of em!!!

As I said, there isn't a chance the cam would have worn off just 1 lobe so quickly so I'm hedging my bets on a follower as much as I don't want it to be a follower.

Another mate suggested draining the oil and refilling with running in oil, run at fast idle for 15 - 20 mins then drain and refil with 10/40 semi synthetic (which is what it has in now)

Is he talking sense or out of his arse, he says its worked for him in the past.
Click to expand...

i would say it's a bit late for that now mate.bite the bullet and take the follower out and rebuild with a new one and plenty of stp.
 
It was me that asked if you filled the lifter with oil, are you saying the freeplay is in the lifter? Is it a standard cam? and not a high lift cam? If the pushrod is straight and the rocker shaft is secured correctly, you may need to remove the lifter and either replace it or pump it full of oil. Make sure there are no scores or marks on the lifter.
 
And your mate is wrong to let it idle, they do require bedding in at 2000 rpm, at this speed the oil pump is giving good pressure to allow the lifters to pump up and purge any air bubbles in the lifters it also conditions the cam.
 
I'm all prepared for removing the lifter. Not sure just yet if the free play is in the lifter but yes, its a standard cam.
Will report backin a couple of hours lol.

PS, I knew my mate was wrong and its possible he just cost me £100 the fookin pikey.:brick:
 
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