Taking an LR in the bush

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F

Fred Labrosse

Guest
All,

I recently have been given a book published by LR (end of 1980s) about
taking your Defender in the bush, specifically in Africa. I have
personally seen many series X in Africa, all very old and often fixed by
the road with less than adequate spares and tools, but still working.

The first thing mentioned by that book to be taken with you in such a trip
is the workshop manual. I not long ago went to a LR dealer to buy one, to
which they said that no, they don't sell that for the 110 TD5 (or any TD5
apparently)...

Does that mean it's not a good idea to take a TD5 in the wild? Has anybody
got any experience as for availability of spares in places such as Africa
(I know, this is a bit vague ;-)? Does anybody know of a good source of
information?

Cheers,

Fred

 
LR are great when simple, the more electronic junk the more likely you will
suffer. Most African bush garages can remedy mechanical things with lots of
ingenuity, however they will lack most of the backup for the gizmo's
managing Td5 engines and ETC, ECU and Alarm systems.


Try to imagine what you would do without membership of the AA, RAC or some
such in the "civilised" roads we have.

John H


"Fred Labrosse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> All,
>
> I recently have been given a book published by LR (end of 1980s) about
> taking your Defender in the bush, specifically in Africa. I have
> personally seen many series X in Africa, all very old and often fixed by
> the road with less than adequate spares and tools, but still working.
>
> The first thing mentioned by that book to be taken with you in such a trip
> is the workshop manual. I not long ago went to a LR dealer to buy one, to
> which they said that no, they don't sell that for the 110 TD5 (or any TD5
> apparently)...
>
> Does that mean it's not a good idea to take a TD5 in the wild? Has
anybody
> got any experience as for availability of spares in places such as Africa
> (I know, this is a bit vague ;-)? Does anybody know of a good source of
> information?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fred
>


 
In message <[email protected]>
Fred Labrosse <[email protected]> wrote:

> All,
>
> I recently have been given a book published by LR (end of 1980s) about
> taking your Defender in the bush, specifically in Africa. I have
> personally seen many series X in Africa, all very old and often fixed by
> the road with less than adequate spares and tools, but still working.
>
> The first thing mentioned by that book to be taken with you in such a trip
> is the workshop manual. I not long ago went to a LR dealer to buy one, to
> which they said that no, they don't sell that for the 110 TD5 (or any TD5
> apparently)...
>
> Does that mean it's not a good idea to take a TD5 in the wild? Has anybody
> got any experience as for availability of spares in places such as Africa
> (I know, this is a bit vague ;-)? Does anybody know of a good source of
> information?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fred
>

VDR100250 is the part number for the manual, but it could
be a CD .....

Richard

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk [email protected]
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems
 
Fred Labrosse wrote:
> All,
>
> I recently have been given a book published by LR (end of 1980s) about
> taking your Defender in the bush, specifically in Africa. I have
> personally seen many series X in Africa, all very old and often fixed by
> the road with less than adequate spares and tools, but still working.
>
> The first thing mentioned by that book to be taken with you in such a trip
> is the workshop manual. I not long ago went to a LR dealer to buy one, to
> which they said that no, they don't sell that for the 110 TD5 (or any TD5
> apparently)...
>
> Does that mean it's not a good idea to take a TD5 in the wild? Has anybody
> got any experience as for availability of spares in places such as Africa
> (I know, this is a bit vague ;-)? Does anybody know of a good source of
> information?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fred
>
I've just been watching a couple of Andrew St Pierre White's videos on
loan from a friend. Lots of interesting titbits about touring in Africa
with a 4WD, but lacking in detail. I put this down to being one-hour
videos...

Anybody got his book? (The complete guide to four-wheel drive) Is it any
good? I was thinking of buying for a similar reason.

I know he has lots of reviews on suitability of various vehicles to
touring in Africa. (TD5 gets a fairly good report - www.4xforum.com)
 
Fred Labrosse wrote:

> All,
>
> I recently have been given a book published by LR (end of 1980s) about
> taking your Defender in the bush, specifically in Africa. I have
> personally seen many series X in Africa, all very old and often fixed by
> the road with less than adequate spares and tools, but still working.
>
> The first thing mentioned by that book to be taken with you in such a trip
> is the workshop manual. I not long ago went to a LR dealer to buy one, to
> which they said that no, they don't sell that for the 110 TD5 (or any TD5
> apparently)...
>
> Does that mean it's not a good idea to take a TD5 in the wild? Has
> anybody got any experience as for availability of spares in places such as
> Africa
> (I know, this is a bit vague ;-)? Does anybody know of a good source of
> information?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fred

I don't think that there IS a workshop manual as such for the TD5 - the
material is held on-line and is continually updated. Snapshots of it are
available on CD, but I am not sure how available.
This is typical of any modern vehicle - the number of vehicles that need a
manual to be used away from a dealer is almost vanishingly small in terms
of the manufacturer's total sales. OK, with the Defender the proportion
may be higher, but remember that this is the smallest production vehicle of
the company in terms of numbers, and their service information structure
was set up for the Discovery/Freelander/RR - and most of their sales, even
of Defenders are to owners in or close to urban areas.
Further factors (not limited to Landrover) tending to restrict the
availability of service/repair information are the increasing length of
warranties and concerns about manufacturers' liability if they appear to
support owners touching their cars.
As to the suitability of the TD5 in remote areas - the increased use of
electronics, mainly in the engine, has probably increased reliability but
raised questions about repair if you do have problems. Although most
problems with the electronics are likely to be sensor problems.
Parts are another issue, and are likely to be a problem with any very late
model vehicle (where there are not old ones about to supply second hand
bits). In remote areas Landrovers are closer to other makes whose better
dealer networks are less of a factor where there are no dealers of any
kind. Apart from the engine, the mechanical bits of a TD5 Defender are
just as easy to "bush mechanic" as the earlier coil spring Landrovers.
JD
 
Fred Labrosse wrote:
> All,
>
> I recently have been given a book published by LR (end of 1980s) about
> taking your Defender in the bush, specifically in Africa. I have
> personally seen many series X in Africa, all very old and often fixed
> by the road with less than adequate spares and tools, but still
> working.
>
> The first thing mentioned by that book to be taken with you in such a
> trip is the workshop manual. I not long ago went to a LR dealer to
> buy one, to which they said that no, they don't sell that for the 110
> TD5 (or any TD5 apparently)...
>
> Does that mean it's not a good idea to take a TD5 in the wild? Has
> anybody got any experience as for availability of spares in places
> such as Africa (I know, this is a bit vague ;-)? Does anybody know
> of a good source of information?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fred

Try researching owner's clubs in the area you want to visit, or get in touch
with any local orgaisation that uses Landies and ask them what service and
rescue arrangements they use.

Embassies have staff who's job it is to find this sort of information for
potential cash-spending tourists, give them a call.

Consider hiring something locally rather than taking your own vehicle, then
it'll come with, at least, somebody to contact for support.

Ask Land Rover, they may have some ideas.

--
Alan

[email protected]


 
Yes I have his book and have read it - it is excellent but not as good as
Chris Scott's book on The Sahara which is far superior.

Andrew

"Dan Burdge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Fred Labrosse wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> I recently have been given a book published by LR (end of 1980s) about
>> taking your Defender in the bush, specifically in Africa. I have
>> personally seen many series X in Africa, all very old and often fixed by
>> the road with less than adequate spares and tools, but still working.
>>
>> The first thing mentioned by that book to be taken with you in such a
>> trip
>> is the workshop manual. I not long ago went to a LR dealer to buy one,
>> to
>> which they said that no, they don't sell that for the 110 TD5 (or any TD5
>> apparently)...
>>
>> Does that mean it's not a good idea to take a TD5 in the wild? Has
>> anybody
>> got any experience as for availability of spares in places such as Africa
>> (I know, this is a bit vague ;-)? Does anybody know of a good source of
>> information?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Fred
>>
> I've just been watching a couple of Andrew St Pierre White's videos on
> loan from a friend. Lots of interesting titbits about touring in Africa
> with a 4WD, but lacking in detail. I put this down to being one-hour
> videos...
>
> Anybody got his book? (The complete guide to four-wheel drive) Is it any
> good? I was thinking of buying for a similar reason.
>
> I know he has lots of reviews on suitability of various vehicles to
> touring in Africa. (TD5 gets a fairly good report - www.4xforum.com)


 
My 110 TD5 recently broke down in the North Western part of South Africa.
The nearest Land Rover workshop was in Cape Town, 450 km away . Their
waiting list for repairs is three weeks long.
South Africa's AA paid 40 km of the towing costs, I had to pay the rest
(huge!).


 
beamendsltd wrote:


>>
>
> VDR100250 is the part number for the manual, but it could
> be a CD .....

And they don't sell it (an LR dealer told me)...

Fred

 
About the same experience I had. I am going to cancel my AA as I see no
benefit to it. You can usually negotiate a better rate from an independant
than the AA will get for you and as you say, what is the point of a 20km
tow.

Regards
Stephen

PS I would think seriously of going over to the dark side and getting a
Hilu# or Cruiser if reliability is a requirement.


 
"fanie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
(snip)
> PS I would think seriously of going over to the dark side and getting a
> Hilu# or Cruiser if reliability is a requirement.
>
So, if you want RELIABILITY or REPAIRABILITY, buy Japanese!!!!!!!!
LR WORLDWIDE ARE YOU LISTENING?????

Who in their right mind would take any new LR product somewhere serious?
IMHO, LR have TOTALLY lost their way. And I'm a 2-time LR owner- '83 & '98
RR.
For goodness' sake, LR- make something REAL without @#^%$@# electronics!
Ford, this is your opportunity- make LR = bulletproof!

(calming down now- backing gently away from keyboard...)



 
On or around Tue, 5 Apr 2005 11:59:00 +0200, "fanie"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>About the same experience I had. I am going to cancel my AA as I see no
>benefit to it. You can usually negotiate a better rate from an independant
>than the AA will get for you and as you say, what is the point of a 20km
>tow.
>

it does sometimes seem like that, however, I once got 'em to transport a car
about 100 miles for me...

They do also come out and fix or transport you pretty much any time, any
place - if like me you're in the habit of travelling around in the middle of
the night on public holidays, it comes in handy - I begrudge the 90 or so
quid to the AA per year much less than I begrudge the road tax.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"The breezy call of incense-breathing Morn, The swallow twittering
from the strawbuilt shed, The cock's shrill clarion, or the echoing
horn, No more shall rouse them from their lowly bed."
Thomas Gray, Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard.
 
On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 15:49:32 +0100, Austin Shackles wrote:

>> About the same experience I had. I am going to cancel my AA as I
>> see no benefit to it.
>
> it does sometimes seem like that, however, I once got 'em to
> transport a car about 100 miles for me...

I think perhaps we are talking about different countries and different
AA's... I've not heard of a tow limit in the UK (but it wouldn't
surprise if they have slipped one in).

I certainly flinch an bit at the £135 I pay the UK AA each year but
that does cover the other half as well and provides roadside
breakdown, break down at home, recovery to home or destination for the
"unfixable" and hire car/over night accomodation etc. I need my car
for work, if I'm contracted to do a job being able to full fill the
contract, maybe a few hours late, is better than having to lose the
work completely. Over the years I feel I've had me moneys worth from
them.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
Natalie Drest wrote:

> "fanie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> (snip)
>> PS I would think seriously of going over to the dark side and getting a
>> Hilu# or Cruiser if reliability is a requirement.
>>
> So, if you want RELIABILITY or REPAIRABILITY, buy Japanese!!!!!!!!
> LR WORLDWIDE ARE YOU LISTENING?????
>
> Who in their right mind would take any new LR product somewhere serious?
> IMHO, LR have TOTALLY lost their way. And I'm a 2-time LR owner- '83 & '98
> RR.
> For goodness' sake, LR- make something REAL without @#^%$@# electronics!
> Ford, this is your opportunity- make LR = bulletproof!
>
> (calming down now- backing gently away from keyboard...)

While not arguing with your general sentiments, the presence or absence of
electronics is not the reason for the better reliability of Toyotas. The
latest Landcruisers also depend on electronics. The difference is better
manufacture and a better dealer network. Both are at least partly a natural
result of production on a far larger scale. Another contributing factor in
the case of the Defender is that the comparable Landcruiser is designed
from scratch for modern manufacturing methods, and is not hand built like
the Defender using a basic design specifically intended for production with
minimum tooling.
But the above does not excuse design problems like the gearbox mainshaft
wear and the rear axle drive flange wear problems, although the smaller
numbers manufactured probably are partly the cause of these, and
particularly the lack of a vast production of on road commercial vehicles
to share components and testing facilities. (Note that neither of these
problems have anything to do with electronics!)
JD
 
Natalie Drest wrote:

> "fanie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> (snip)
>
>>PS I would think seriously of going over to the dark side and getting a
>>Hilu# or Cruiser if reliability is a requirement.
>>
>
> So, if you want RELIABILITY or REPAIRABILITY, buy Japanese!!!!!!!!
> LR WORLDWIDE ARE YOU LISTENING?????
>
> Who in their right mind would take any new LR product somewhere serious?
> IMHO, LR have TOTALLY lost their way. And I'm a 2-time LR owner- '83 & '98
> RR.
> For goodness' sake, LR- make something REAL without @#^%$@# electronics!
> Ford, this is your opportunity- make LR = bulletproof!
>
> (calming down now- backing gently away from keyboard...)
>
>
>
The above, and a proper back door, is why my RRC will be replaced in all
probability by an Isuzu Trooper. I will miss my V8 but not its
capricious ways.

Richard

--
Real email address is RJSavage at BIGFOOT dot COM

The information contained in this post
may not be published in, or used by

http://www.diyprojects.info
 
I got back about a month ago from a trip to Algeria in a group, where we
travelled around 2000 miles off road. I was strongly advised to leave my
Landy at home and get a Landcruiser... I did, thank goodness!.. The one
landy, a 110 tdi had so much of a bad time, just simply getting around in
the sand for a start!.. The general build seems OK, but that little 2.5ltr
turbo diesel cant cope when power is needed in sand, it just grinds to a
halt and then the digging starts... Old 4ltr n/a Landcruisers just keep
going over it all... They never broke down or lost bits the whole trip....
Different story for the land rover...

I have had land rovers for years, and still have one. They are great in the
UK, but after recent experience, I would not take one to Africa. Even if
your confident about the condition of your vehicle, you will see that Toyota
have taken over as the 4X4 of choice, spares everywhere.

Chris

"JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Natalie Drest wrote:
>
>> "fanie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> (snip)
>>> PS I would think seriously of going over to the dark side and getting a
>>> Hilu# or Cruiser if reliability is a requirement.
>>>
>> So, if you want RELIABILITY or REPAIRABILITY, buy Japanese!!!!!!!!
>> LR WORLDWIDE ARE YOU LISTENING?????
>>
>> Who in their right mind would take any new LR product somewhere serious?
>> IMHO, LR have TOTALLY lost their way. And I'm a 2-time LR owner- '83 &
>> '98
>> RR.
>> For goodness' sake, LR- make something REAL without @#^%$@# electronics!
>> Ford, this is your opportunity- make LR = bulletproof!
>>
>> (calming down now- backing gently away from keyboard...)
>
> While not arguing with your general sentiments, the presence or absence of
> electronics is not the reason for the better reliability of Toyotas. The
> latest Landcruisers also depend on electronics. The difference is better
> manufacture and a better dealer network. Both are at least partly a
> natural
> result of production on a far larger scale. Another contributing factor in
> the case of the Defender is that the comparable Landcruiser is designed
> from scratch for modern manufacturing methods, and is not hand built like
> the Defender using a basic design specifically intended for production
> with
> minimum tooling.
> But the above does not excuse design problems like the gearbox mainshaft
> wear and the rear axle drive flange wear problems, although the smaller
> numbers manufactured probably are partly the cause of these, and
> particularly the lack of a vast production of on road commercial vehicles
> to share components and testing facilities. (Note that neither of these
> problems have anything to do with electronics!)
> JD


 
On or around Tue, 5 Apr 2005 23:16:27 +1000, "Natalie Drest"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>"fanie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>(snip)
>> PS I would think seriously of going over to the dark side and getting a
>> Hilu# or Cruiser if reliability is a requirement.
>>
>So, if you want RELIABILITY or REPAIRABILITY, buy Japanese!!!!!!!!
>LR WORLDWIDE ARE YOU LISTENING?????

mind, they have electronics too - all the modern vehicles do. In fact, I
suspect it's rarely the actual electronics that cause trouble, more often
it'll be down to cheap connectors causing bad connections and other such
silliness.

>Who in their right mind would take any new LR product somewhere serious?
>IMHO, LR have TOTALLY lost their way. And I'm a 2-time LR owner- '83 & '98
>RR.

your '98 has electronic engine management if it's petrol...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Travel The Galaxy! Meet Fascinating Life Forms...
------------------------------------------------\
>> http://www.schlockmercenary.com/ << \ ...and Kill them.
a webcartoon by Howard Tayler; I like it, maybe you will too!
 

> your '98 has electronic engine management if it's petrol...
>
> Austin Shackles.

Yes, it does. And a BECM. And a Hevac. And ride height sensors, blend
motors, etc., etc.. All of which the diesel P38a's have.
And I won't be taking it anywhere help isn't under a day away.

Now don't get me wrong- it's a superior vehicle off-road, particularly in
the Victorian Highlands, which aren't far away from me. I like it very much-
but reliable it ain't.
My old '83 4-door was more reliable- though a previous owner had 'upgraded'
the distributor to an optical system, which failed when dirt shaken free
from the inside on rough roads got in the way of the sensor.


 
On or around Wed, 6 Apr 2005 18:58:48 +1000, "Natalie Drest"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>
>> your '98 has electronic engine management if it's petrol...
>>
>> Austin Shackles.
>
>Yes, it does. And a BECM. And a Hevac. And ride height sensors, blend
>motors, etc., etc.. All of which the diesel P38a's have.
>And I won't be taking it anywhere help isn't under a day away.
>
>Now don't get me wrong- it's a superior vehicle off-road, particularly in
>the Victorian Highlands, which aren't far away from me. I like it very much-
>but reliable it ain't.
>My old '83 4-door was more reliable- though a previous owner had 'upgraded'
>the distributor to an optical system, which failed when dirt shaken free
>from the inside on rough roads got in the way of the sensor.

that's probably why the factory fitted magnetic triggers.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
In Touch: Get in touch with yourself by touching yourself.
If somebody is watching, stop touching yourself.
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.
 
Kingsley Holgate travelled around the world in two TD5 110's following the
tropic of Capricorn. The only trouble that he had was when the Australian
Government banished the two Landies, Chuma & Susi to some Pacific islands
where water from the high pressure washer used to sanitise the vehicle
penetrated the electronics. LR replaced the ECU & all was well.

Don't have the story on my website, but you can see some pictures of the man
(and my S2A) www.outdoorman.co.za/kingsley_holgate.htm
My apologies for the "under constuction bits.

Regards
Sean

"Fred Labrosse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> All,
>
> I recently have been given a book published by LR (end of 1980s) about
> taking your Defender in the bush, specifically in Africa. I have
> personally seen many series X in Africa, all very old and often fixed by
> the road with less than adequate spares and tools, but still working.
>
> The first thing mentioned by that book to be taken with you in such a trip
> is the workshop manual. I not long ago went to a LR dealer to buy one, to
> which they said that no, they don't sell that for the 110 TD5 (or any TD5
> apparently)...
>
> Does that mean it's not a good idea to take a TD5 in the wild? Has
> anybody
> got any experience as for availability of spares in places such as Africa
> (I know, this is a bit vague ;-)? Does anybody know of a good source of
> information?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fred
>


 
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