Stuck Head Bolts

Sean said:

that's a comment designed to start an argument

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No not at all. I have Stahlwillie sockets and spanners from the time of my apprenticship that i started in 1961 they are still good today. They have a lifetime warranty if you break one no matter how old you get a new one free. Snapon are excellent tools, as are Armstrong, Britool Etc but if you want a slim spanner or socket that will get on most things and not break or wear out with use, Stahlwille or Snapon are best. I only speak from 49 years experience maybe some younger people will know better. That is my opinion, others may disagree. Draper tools whilst cheap are useless for constant use for instance. Most damage to bolt heads happens when cheap nasty tools are used. Best tip is when removing hexigon cylinderhead bolts is to use a good quality single hex impact socket they are the strongest and do not wear quickly.

Why are sockets such as Britool, Elora, Starwhille etc. all bi-hex??:behindsofa:

Why are ring spanners bi-hex??

I have never had a problem with Britool or Elora.

Irishrover said:

Why are sockets such as Britool, Elora, Starwhille etc. all bi-hex??:behindsofa:

Why are ring spanners bi-hex??

I have never had a problem with Britool or Elora.

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They are not you can get single hex sockets in all those makes. You can also get single hex ring keys. Try undoing a small rusty bleed nipple with a bi-hex and see what happens nine times out of ten. No Britool, Elora are good, but some tend to be slightly larger on the heads and ring ends than Stahlwillie or Snapon are. I cannot name all the good tools just as i cannot name all the bad ones. But if your paying the same price for a full socket set as it costs for a Stahlwille or Snapon ratchet the difference in quality is obvious. Tipco used to make good hand spanners and an excellent aluminium bodied 1/2 ratchet, mine is still going strong after fourty odd years. This is not about what is best, but more about don't use cheap nasty tools then complain about rounding a bolt off. Good tools do not come cheap simple as that.

What is the exact size of the head bolts. Is it imperial or metric ? Whilst on the subject and no ones come up with an answer whats the size of that bolt that holds the exhaust manifold on as I dont think its ribe or Torx.
Taking my heads off shortly as I have a mis fire and small water loss

The bolts for the exhaust manifold are 12mm bi-hex. I was shocked they came off really easy. i thought they'd be the ones that were seized to the death.

The cylinder head bolts are 5/8th imperial, although i cannot get any suppliers who stock any 5/8th sockets, let alone single hex sockets. bought a so-called lifetime warranty socket last night and cracked it within 10 seconds of use! 16mm single hex is a good fit, but don't even try with bi-hex, as others have said - you just risk rounding it. Anyway, lots of cleaning up to be done today.

ALL FOR THE SAKE OF THREE DAMN BOLTS!!!

Just a couple of facts reference tools and if they are going to last and do a good job.

Stahlwille AF spanner set. 3/8" to 7/8". Part # 14A/9KT 9 pieces. List price £91.00.

Snap On AF spanner set. 3/8" to 3/4". 7 pieces. List price £124.00.

Draper AF spanner set. 1/4" to 7/8". 11 pieces. List price £12.70.

Which one do you lads think will wear quickest and start rounding heads off first? Answers on a post card to Draper tools Ltd.

P38_love/hatething said:

The bolts for the exhaust manifold are 12mm bi-hex. I was shocked they came off really easy. i thought they'd be the ones that were seized to the death.

The cylinder head bolts are 5/8th imperial, although i cannot get any suppliers who stock any 5/8th sockets, let alone single hex sockets. bought a so-called lifetime warranty socket last night and cracked it within 10 seconds of use! 16mm single hex is a good fit, but don't even try with bi-hex, as others have said - you just risk rounding it. Anyway, lots of cleaning up to be done today.

ALL FOR THE SAKE OF THREE DAMN BOLTS!!!

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5/8 AF and 16 mm are almost identical, think you will find 5/8 imperial is used on bath taps or boilers somewhere. Sykes Picavant do a special extended 16mm 1/2 drive socket that would do the job. Unfortunatly they are £14.95 each. As i said earlier get hold of some impact sockets they are all single hex and strong enough to do the job. They can be got in metric and AF sizes from any good tool supplier.

A 16mm socket is .125mm smaller than 5/8" A/F.This is around .005" and should give a tighter fit, but not much. Gotta be a good tool stockist in Belfast surely??:behindsofa:

Beat me to it !!!

Thanks fellas. Not took a head off for a few years but now seen all the pitfalls of p38 love hate doing his has helped a lot. There is nothing worse than one screw taking up 2 days when the whole job should have only taken that long.
What make of head gaskets are you using. Now the LR parts are obviously not that good as the heads have to come off these machines more than normal modern cars, so whats the best aftermarket ?

tell me about it, everything came off great. inlet manifold took longer cause i didn't want to force it. i followed the RAVE manual which doesn't say anything about removing the injectors, but irishrover put me on the right track (remove them) and take out the bolts for the gasket clamps, then it came off easy.

that was tuesday morning. nothing moved since, apart from me power-hosing all the bits i have removed already. like everyone has said, a good set of tools and you'll have no problems.

as for gaskets, i've just taken delivery of a full head set from island 4x4. ordered monday, arrived today, although i phoned them and paid extra for courier delivery, not royal snail. thought i'd be at that stage long ago!!!

which brings me to a question (come on, you didn't think i'd get through a whole post without one question!). what are half the gaskets for in the head set - i've taken everything but one head off and haven't seen half of them on the way down

definitely p38 hate thing at the minute

exhaust and those for a thor as well as a Gems engine. I have a thor and will be looking at the gems saying where does that go?

try and find a lorry or argricultural mecanic, borrow his sockets or get him to come and undo them

they normally have 3/4 inch drive stuff

which is more robust, girlfriends dad is a framer he has 3/4 drive stuff and the breaker bar is huge, not much stands that sort of leverage

Hey Cavey...Your "Home" early, thought it was only pensioners and wimmin that worked part time :hysterically_laughi

Some of the small gaskets are for places such as the heater jacket on the inlet manifold and other places that you have not dismantled.
Word of advice...check that you correctly locate the exhaust manifold to head gaskets correctly, it's easy to puy them on the wrong way round and they obstruct the ports. Also put a smear of RTV sealant on the curved faces of the block, together with the small lips on the Valley gasket rubber end seals.
Any luck with those bolts yet ????
:behindsofa:

oi Irish
working for a college this week

the students arrive at 9.45 and leave at 3.15

tough days hey

but one of them had managed to give me a black eye today the plonker>

it was accidental, if not i would have been home later as i would prob have decked him which would have involved more paperwork hey

AHHHH!!! The head is off!! thank f@%$!!

so i went out to the hardware store, bought a good deep 16mm impact socket and it was al plain sailing after that. now why the hell didn't i do that yesterday?!! theres a lesson in there somewhere...

so i also tried attaching a photo of the gasket, and the head with the sparkplug remains still in place. gonna get it machined out tomorrow. there was a hole almost an inch wide in the gasket, leaking compression directly out the side of the cylinder (2nd from front on drivers/right hand bank)

so machining heads tomorrow and rebuild on friday. got everything degreased today, so putting it all back together should be pleasant enough!!

bearing in mind that all the oil is blasted off the heads, should i bolt the heads on and then partialy fill with oil? or just go ahead and fill when i'm done??

P38_love/hatething said:

AHHHH!!! The head is off!! thank f@%$!!

so i went out to the hardware store, bought a good deep 16mm impact socket and it was al plain sailing after that. now why the hell didn't i do that yesterday?!! theres a lesson in there somewhere...

so i also tried attaching a photo of the gasket, and the head with the sparkplug remains still in place. gonna get it machined out tomorrow. there was a hole almost an inch wide in the gasket, leaking compression directly out the side of the cylinder (2nd from front on drivers/right hand bank)

so machining heads tomorrow and rebuild on friday. got everything degreased today, so putting it all back together should be pleasant enough!!

bearing in mind that all the oil is blasted off the heads, should i bolt the heads on and then partialy fill with oil? or just go ahead and fill when i'm done??

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Well done mate. Just goes to show us old farts are good for something now and again.

Well done that Man !!!!:clap2::clap2::clap2::clap2:
Perseverance is the name of the game...we have all been there. Fill with oil when you have it assembled. Check the condition of the camshaft lobes and the faces of the hydraulic tappets whilst you have it stripped. Get the oilcan and give the rocker shafts a squirt of oil before you replace the covers. If you have access to a valve spring compressor, remove the valves and check them over..replace the oil seals with the new ones in the gasket kit, like small metal cups with a rubber lip (16 of them). Also make sure you have the following for reassembly:
Hylomar Gasket seal..DO NOT USE ON THE HEAD GASKETS
Lock and Seal compound for the Head and other bolts.
RTV sealant for the Valley gasket rubber end seals.
Firegum exhaust paste for the exhaust manifold and downpipe gaskets.
5litres of quality anti freeze

1 new spark plug to replace the broken one :hysterically_laughi

Hope you get on a roll now...keep us all posted.

raise:


Wrififers legacy lives on !!!!!!!

Irishrover said:

Hylomar Gasket seal..DO NOT USE ON THE HEAD GASKETS - NEED TO GET
Lock and Seal compound for the Head and other bolts. - CHECK
RTV sealant for the Valley gasket rubber end seals. - CHECK
Firegum exhaust paste for the exhaust manifold and downpipe gaskets. - CHECK, NEED GASKETS THEMSELVES
5litres of quality anti freeze - CHECK

1 new spark plug to replace the broken one - CAN I NOT JUST USE THE OLD ONE WHEN ITS TAKEN OUT?!?!

Hope you get on a roll now... - FLIPPING BETTER!!!

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Seriously though, thanks to all for the help!!