Storing a battery out of the car...

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J

Jon

Guest
Hi,

Ive just bought a new battery for my 90 - An Odyssey PC1700 (Good
CCA's and also good discharge / recharge properties for cool box and
12V lighting, invertors etc. One battery system for now...

How should I store the lead-acid battery that I am taking out of the
vehicle? It is not dead or knackered and I could re-use it at a later
stage when I put a split charge system in.

Do I need to keep it charged or just let it go flat on its own and
then re-charge when I need it again?

I dont want to let it go flat for a long while (6 - 12months) if that
will knacker it.

Thanks
Jon

 
Jon composed the following;:
> Hi,
>
> Ive just bought a new battery for my 90 - An Odyssey PC1700 (Good
> CCA's and also good discharge / recharge properties for cool box and
> 12V lighting, invertors etc. One battery system for now...
>
> How should I store the lead-acid battery that I am taking out of the
> vehicle? It is not dead or knackered and I could re-use it at a later
> stage when I put a split charge system in.
>
> Do I need to keep it charged or just let it go flat on its own and
> then re-charge when I need it again?
>
> I dont want to let it go flat for a long while (6 - 12months) if that
> will knacker it.

Off the floor, especially if it's concrete, a plank of wood is OK, though a
decent shelf is better, and inside a battery box is even better. They _can_
leak, and the fumes _can_ leave deposits that _can_ cause irritations to
surrounding 'stuff'.

I'd also run a battery charger to it when you first store it and leave it
overnight, then check, top-up with water and re-charge every three months or
so for best performance.

I once left a battery for well over a year and came back to it with still
enough charge to start a car.

--
Paul ...

www.4x4prejudice.org

(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

 


On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:31:26 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:10:17 +0000, Jon wrote:
>
>> Ive just bought a new battery for my 90 - An Odyssey PC1700 (Good
>> CCA's and also good discharge / recharge properties for cool box and
>> 12V lighting, invertors etc. One battery system for now...
>
>Is this a "leisure" or deep discharge battery? If so is it also
>suitable as a vehicle battery, thinking starting current etc.
>
take a look here at battery spec:
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc1700mjt.htm

I am going to use it as a one stop solution to start with. It may
then become my second battery or I may go for a yellow top as a second
- descision yet to be made.


>> How should I store the lead-acid battery that I am taking out of the
>> vehicle?
>
>Lead Acids need to be stored fully charged and I think topped up
>occasionally. Take a peek through:
>
>http://www.batteryuniversity.com/index.htm

thanks. very informative.


 
On Monday, in article <[email protected]>
[email protected] "Paul - xxx" wrote:

> Jon composed the following;:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Ive just bought a new battery for my 90 - An Odyssey PC1700 (Good
> > CCA's and also good discharge / recharge properties for cool box and
> > 12V lighting, invertors etc. One battery system for now...
> >
> > How should I store the lead-acid battery that I am taking out of the
> > vehicle? It is not dead or knackered and I could re-use it at a later
> > stage when I put a split charge system in.
> >
> > Do I need to keep it charged or just let it go flat on its own and
> > then re-charge when I need it again?
> >
> > I dont want to let it go flat for a long while (6 - 12months) if that
> > will knacker it.
>
> Off the floor, especially if it's concrete, a plank of wood is OK, though a
> decent shelf is better, and inside a battery box is even better. They _can_
> leak, and the fumes _can_ leave deposits that _can_ cause irritations to
> surrounding 'stuff'.

A cheap plastic washing-up bowl, the rectangular sort rather then round,
will give some protection against leaks. If you remembered to save them
from the new battery, use the terminal covers. Clean the top, something
like baking powder in the water will neutralise any traces of acid on
the surface.

> I'd also run a battery charger to it when you first store it and leave it
> overnight, then check, top-up with water and re-charge every three months or
> so for best performance.

An hydrometer is the best way to check state of charge. You might be
surprised how long a full charge takes.

--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.

"I am Number Two," said Penfold. "You are Number Six."
 
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:12:32 +0000, Jon wrote:

>> Is this a "leisure" or deep discharge battery? If so is it also
>> suitable as a vehicle battery, thinking starting current etc.
>
> take a look here at battery spec:
> http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc1700mjt.htm

They don't really say do they? Though it looks to be mainly a vehicle
battery, with deep cycle capabilties.

I did spot this in the user manual though:

> ANY OF THE FOLLOWING WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY:
> - EXPOSING BATTERY TO GASOLINE OR DIESEL FUEL

What does "EXPOSING" mean, splashing on? Having the vapours near by?

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



 
http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq14.htm#concrete

Myth: Concrete flooring will discharge a battery!!

Plastic/rubber doesn't conduct electricity and so charge is not lost from a
battery when stored on concrete.

ps. A battery should always be fully charged. At any time in its life
should a battery be at less then full charge, then sulfation of the cells
begins. - this is the reason why a battery is rated at 10,000+ (e.g.) charge
/discharge cycles. A battery lasts longer with shallower discharge cycles.

It is recommended for most lead acid batteries to top up the charge every 3
months, sooner in hot climates.

Dave S

"Paul - xxx" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jon composed the following;:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Ive just bought a new battery for my 90 - An Odyssey PC1700 (Good
>> CCA's and also good discharge / recharge properties for cool box and
>> 12V lighting, invertors etc. One battery system for now...
>>
>> How should I store the lead-acid battery that I am taking out of the
>> vehicle? It is not dead or knackered and I could re-use it at a later
>> stage when I put a split charge system in.
>>
>> Do I need to keep it charged or just let it go flat on its own and
>> then re-charge when I need it again?
>>
>> I dont want to let it go flat for a long while (6 - 12months) if that
>> will knacker it.
>
> Off the floor, especially if it's concrete, a plank of wood is OK, though
> a decent shelf is better, and inside a battery box is even better. They
> _can_ leak, and the fumes _can_ leave deposits that _can_ cause
> irritations to surrounding 'stuff'.
>
> I'd also run a battery charger to it when you first store it and leave it
> overnight, then check, top-up with water and re-charge every three months
> or so for best performance.
>
> I once left a battery for well over a year and came back to it with still
> enough charge to start a car.
>
> --
> Paul ...
>
> www.4x4prejudice.org
>
> (8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!


 
Dave Schofield composed the following;:
> http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq14.htm#concrete
>
> Myth: Concrete flooring will discharge a battery!!

Did I say it would?

The reason I suggested not leaving it on a concrete floor is that the
general roughness of a typical concrete floor can damage the case of the
battery. I know, 'cos it happened to me once. Put a battery down, small
pebble proud of the rest of the floor, cracked case, spilt acid etc. ;)

> Plastic/rubber doesn't conduct electricity and so charge is not lost
> from a battery when stored on concrete.

I didn't say it did.

> ps. A battery should always be fully charged. At any time in its life
> should a battery be at less then full charge, then sulfation of the
> cells begins. - this is the reason why a battery is rated at 10,000+
> (e.g.) charge /discharge cycles. A battery lasts longer with shallower
> discharge cycles.

Depends on the type of battery.

> It is recommended for most lead acid batteries to top up the charge
> every 3 months,

Which is exactly what I did say ..

> sooner in hot climates.

I've never heard that one, in fact quite the opposite in my experience,
batteries need charging more frequently in cold weather, unless you have a
link or source that proves different ...

--
Paul ...
www.4x4prejudice.org
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

 
Paul - xxx wrote:
> Dave Schofield composed the following;:

>> It is recommended for most lead acid batteries to top up the charge
>> every 3 months,
>
>
> Which is exactly what I did say ..
>
>> sooner in hot climates.
>
>
> I've never heard that one, in fact quite the opposite in my experience,
> batteries need charging more frequently in cold weather, unless you have
> a link or source that proves different ...

Self discharge is a chemical reaction. It's a fairly basic principle of
chemistry that almost all reactions occur more rapidly at higher
temperatures, thus batteries self discharge more rapidly at higher
temperatures.

http://www.powerstream.com/Storage.htm

http://www.buchanan1.net/lead_acid.shtml at bottom of page


--
EMB
 
EMB composed the following;:
> Paul - xxx wrote:
>> Dave Schofield composed the following;:
>
>>> It is recommended for most lead acid batteries to top up the charge
>>> every 3 months,
>>
>>
>> Which is exactly what I did say ..
>>
>>> sooner in hot climates.
>>
>>
>> I've never heard that one, in fact quite the opposite in my experience,
>> batteries need charging more frequently in cold weather, unless you
>> have a link or source that proves different ...
>
> Self discharge is a chemical reaction. It's a fairly basic principle of
> chemistry that almost all reactions occur more rapidly at higher
> temperatures, thus batteries self discharge more rapidly at higher
> temperatures.
>
> http://www.powerstream.com/Storage.htm
>
> http://www.buchanan1.net/lead_acid.shtml at bottom of page

OK. So why is it harder to start my Landrover when it's cold. I _never_
have trouble in summer, only in winter ...

--
Paul ...
www.4x4prejudice.org
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

 
Paul - xxx wrote:

> Dave Schofield composed the following;:
>> http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq14.htm#concrete
>>
>> Myth: Concrete flooring will discharge a battery!!
>
> Did I say it would?
>
> The reason I suggested not leaving it on a concrete floor is that the
> general roughness of a typical concrete floor can damage the case of the
> battery. I know, 'cos it happened to me once. Put a battery down, small
> pebble proud of the rest of the floor, cracked case, spilt acid etc. ;)
>
>> Plastic/rubber doesn't conduct electricity and so charge is not lost
>> from a battery when stored on concrete.
>
> I didn't say it did.
>
>> ps. A battery should always be fully charged. At any time in its life
>> should a battery be at less then full charge, then sulfation of the
>> cells begins. - this is the reason why a battery is rated at 10,000+
>> (e.g.) charge /discharge cycles. A battery lasts longer with shallower
>> discharge cycles.
>
> Depends on the type of battery.
>
>> It is recommended for most lead acid batteries to top up the charge
>> every 3 months,
>
> Which is exactly what I did say ..
>
>> sooner in hot climates.
>
> I've never heard that one, in fact quite the opposite in my experience,
> batteries need charging more frequently in cold weather, unless you have a
> link or source that proves different ...
>
Batteries self discharge more rapidly at higher temperatures - reactions
proceed more rapidly at higher temperatures. But it matters more that it is
partly discharged at very low temperatures for two reasons - 1. to start
your engine needs a better charge at low temperatures, 2. a partly
discharged battery will freeze at a higher temperature than a fully charged
one, because the electrolyte is less concentrated.
JD
 
JD composed the following;:
> Paul - xxx wrote:
>
>> Dave Schofield composed the following;:
>>> http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq14.htm#concrete
>>>
>>> Myth: Concrete flooring will discharge a battery!!
>>
>> Did I say it would?
>>
>> The reason I suggested not leaving it on a concrete floor is that the
>> general roughness of a typical concrete floor can damage the case of
>> the battery. I know, 'cos it happened to me once. Put a battery
>> down, small pebble proud of the rest of the floor, cracked case, spilt
>> acid etc. ;)
>>
>>> Plastic/rubber doesn't conduct electricity and so charge is not lost
>>> from a battery when stored on concrete.
>>
>> I didn't say it did.
>>
>>> ps. A battery should always be fully charged. At any time in its life
>>> should a battery be at less then full charge, then sulfation of the
>>> cells begins. - this is the reason why a battery is rated at 10,000+
>>> (e.g.) charge /discharge cycles. A battery lasts longer with
>>> shallower discharge cycles.
>>
>> Depends on the type of battery.
>>
>>> It is recommended for most lead acid batteries to top up the charge
>>> every 3 months,
>>
>> Which is exactly what I did say ..
>>
>>> sooner in hot climates.
>>
>> I've never heard that one, in fact quite the opposite in my experience,
>> batteries need charging more frequently in cold weather, unless you
>> have a link or source that proves different ...
>>
> Batteries self discharge more rapidly at higher temperatures - reactions
> proceed more rapidly at higher temperatures. But it matters more that
> it is partly discharged at very low temperatures for two reasons - 1.
> to start your engine needs a better charge at low temperatures, 2. a
> partly discharged battery will freeze at a higher temperature than a
> fully charged one, because the electrolyte is less concentrated.

OK, I can see that, but I would like to know why .. ;)

And does freezing of the contents matter too much to us in UK? I thought
that the electrolyte didn't freeze until about -19 °C or something similar
....



--
Paul ...
www.4x4prejudice.org
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

 
Paul - xxx wrote:

> OK. So why is it harder to start my Landrover when it's cold. I
> _never_ have trouble in summer, only in winter ...

Back to the chemical reaction - the electricity is released through a
chemical reaction too! When it's cold that reaction proceeds more
slowly meaning that less electric current is available.

--
EMB
 
EMB composed the following;:
> Paul - xxx wrote:
>
>> OK. So why is it harder to start my Landrover when it's cold. I
>> _never_ have trouble in summer, only in winter ...
>
> Back to the chemical reaction - the electricity is released through a
> chemical reaction too! When it's cold that reaction proceeds more
> slowly meaning that less electric current is available.

Heheheh, bloody obvious when someone tells you .. ;)

Thanks.


--
Paul ...
www.4x4prejudice.org
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
 
Paul - xxx wrote:

> JD composed the following;:
>> Paul - xxx wrote:
>>
>>> Dave Schofield composed the following;:
>>>> http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq14.htm#concrete
>>>>
>>>> Myth: Concrete flooring will discharge a battery!!
>>>
>>> Did I say it would?
>>>
>>> The reason I suggested not leaving it on a concrete floor is that the
>>> general roughness of a typical concrete floor can damage the case of
>>> the battery. I know, 'cos it happened to me once. Put a battery
>>> down, small pebble proud of the rest of the floor, cracked case, spilt
>>> acid etc. ;)
>>>
>>>> Plastic/rubber doesn't conduct electricity and so charge is not lost
>>>> from a battery when stored on concrete.
>>>
>>> I didn't say it did.
>>>
>>>> ps. A battery should always be fully charged. At any time in its life
>>>> should a battery be at less then full charge, then sulfation of the
>>>> cells begins. - this is the reason why a battery is rated at 10,000+
>>>> (e.g.) charge /discharge cycles. A battery lasts longer with
>>>> shallower discharge cycles.
>>>
>>> Depends on the type of battery.
>>>
>>>> It is recommended for most lead acid batteries to top up the charge
>>>> every 3 months,
>>>
>>> Which is exactly what I did say ..
>>>
>>>> sooner in hot climates.
>>>
>>> I've never heard that one, in fact quite the opposite in my experience,
>>> batteries need charging more frequently in cold weather, unless you
>>> have a link or source that proves different ...
>>>
>> Batteries self discharge more rapidly at higher temperatures - reactions
>> proceed more rapidly at higher temperatures. But it matters more that
>> it is partly discharged at very low temperatures for two reasons - 1.
>> to start your engine needs a better charge at low temperatures, 2. a
>> partly discharged battery will freeze at a higher temperature than a
>> fully charged one, because the electrolyte is less concentrated.
>
> OK, I can see that, but I would like to know why .. ;)
>
> And does freezing of the contents matter too much to us in UK? I thought
> that the electrolyte didn't freeze until about -19 °C or something similar
> ...
>
>
>
Without looking it up, I think that the -19C is correct for a fully charged
battery - fully discharged it is only about -5C.

Reason for this - same as adding more antifreeze lowers the freezing
temperature - the more sulphate ion is in the electrolyte, the more the
antifreeze effect. When the battery is discharged the, the sulphate is in
the plates.
JD
 
EMB wrote:

> Paul - xxx wrote:
>
>> OK. So why is it harder to start my Landrover when it's cold. I
>> _never_ have trouble in summer, only in winter ...
>
> Back to the chemical reaction - the electricity is released through a
> chemical reaction too! When it's cold that reaction proceeds more
> slowly meaning that less electric current is available.
>
And the engine is harder to turn (thicker oil), and more reluctant to fire
because it is turning slower, and (if petrol) the petrol does not vaporise
as easily and (if diesel) the compression temperature is lower.
So the hard starting effect gets you coming and going - the engine is harder
to start and the battery is less effective.
JD
 
JD composed the following;:
> EMB wrote:
>
>> Paul - xxx wrote:
>>
>>> OK. So why is it harder to start my Landrover when it's cold. I
>>> _never_ have trouble in summer, only in winter ...
>>
>> Back to the chemical reaction - the electricity is released through a
>> chemical reaction too! When it's cold that reaction proceeds more
>> slowly meaning that less electric current is available.
>>
> And the engine is harder to turn (thicker oil), and more reluctant to
> fire because it is turning slower, and (if petrol) the petrol does not
> vaporise as easily and (if diesel) the compression temperature is lower.
> So the hard starting effect gets you coming and going - the engine is
> harder to start and the battery is less effective.

I knew about the engine oil and diesel bit, I was a little unsure about
why the battery was also reluctant.

--
Paul ...
www.4x4prejudice.org
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

 
JD composed the following;:
> Paul - xxx wrote:
>
>> JD composed the following;:
>>> Paul - xxx wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dave Schofield composed the following;:
>>>>> http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq14.htm#concrete
>>>>>
>>>>> Myth: Concrete flooring will discharge a battery!!
>>>>
>>>> Did I say it would?
>>>>
>>>> The reason I suggested not leaving it on a concrete floor is that the
>>>> general roughness of a typical concrete floor can damage the case of
>>>> the battery. I know, 'cos it happened to me once. Put a battery
>>>> down, small pebble proud of the rest of the floor, cracked case,
>>>> spilt acid etc. ;)
>>>>
>>>>> Plastic/rubber doesn't conduct electricity and so charge is not lost
>>>>> from a battery when stored on concrete.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't say it did.
>>>>
>>>>> ps. A battery should always be fully charged. At any time in its
>>>>> life should a battery be at less then full charge, then sulfation
>>>>> of the cells begins. - this is the reason why a battery is rated at
>>>>> 10,000+ (e.g.) charge /discharge cycles. A battery lasts longer
>>>>> with shallower discharge cycles.
>>>>
>>>> Depends on the type of battery.
>>>>
>>>>> It is recommended for most lead acid batteries to top up the charge
>>>>> every 3 months,
>>>>
>>>> Which is exactly what I did say ..
>>>>
>>>>> sooner in hot climates.
>>>>
>>>> I've never heard that one, in fact quite the opposite in my
>>>> experience, batteries need charging more frequently in cold weather,
>>>> unless you have a link or source that proves different ...
>>>>
>>> Batteries self discharge more rapidly at higher temperatures -
>>> reactions proceed more rapidly at higher temperatures. But it matters
>>> more that it is partly discharged at very low temperatures for two
>>> reasons - 1. to start your engine needs a better charge at low
>>> temperatures, 2. a partly discharged battery will freeze at a higher
>>> temperature than a fully charged one, because the electrolyte is less
>>> concentrated.
>>
>> OK, I can see that, but I would like to know why .. ;)
>>
>> And does freezing of the contents matter too much to us in UK? I
>> thought that the electrolyte didn't freeze until about -19 °C or
>> something similar ...
>>
>>
>>
> Without looking it up, I think that the -19C is correct for a fully
> charged battery - fully discharged it is only about -5C.
>
> Reason for this - same as adding more antifreeze lowers the freezing
> temperature - the more sulphate ion is in the electrolyte, the more the
> antifreeze effect. When the battery is discharged the, the sulphate is
> in the plates.

Right, so with a low battery, and mine isn't new or a 'good' battery at
it's best, we could get problems. No worries, thanks .. ;)

--
Paul ...
www.4x4prejudice.org
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

 
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